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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:14 am 
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Y'know i rather wonder... The decrypted archons did not tell Parson about his guns... Has charlie been keeping these weapons a secret from his archons till now and only breaking them out to prepare for war, or could it be that the decrypted did not tell parson because he did not specifically ask about what kind of specialized equipment they have

Lemarc wrote:
I don't see why guns would be a major gamechanger. Surely they just have an Attack stat like everything else, and archons can already shoot laser beams, can't they? The only significant advantage I can see is if they could be mass-produced and given to low-level troops to boost their combat power, kind of like the real life gunpowder revolution.


Considering how everyone else uses arrows and catapults, guns would be a HUGE advantage. Sure they have attack stats, but they are bound to have much HIGHER attack stats then what most troops have. Higher range, accuracy, and power. Heck it might even be possible that dollamancers have already made guns (we know ace made a grenade); however making a few guns would be tough enough, and may even require a thinkamancy link to boost the dollamancer's power; so for most sides they might be considered lucky to have a couple that could go to their warlords. So the fact that Charlie could arm an entire army with rifles is a HUGE deal.

Radagast wrote:
ShieldOfAthena wrote:
....So when does the COMIC part of the comic get an update? I might be alone in this, but I don't watch the videos. I think they are kind of a waste of time, tbh. Side projects are for when your main project is on time and doing well.


I agree... I watched the video with the sound off and just read the subtitles, but a normal page would have been nicer. I don't really see what there was to "spoil" by having the normal page. Even if you saw the picture at the end before reading the rest it really doesn't spoil anything.

The use of slow panning and epic music for that final scene made it feel more epic. Seeing the pic before might have spoiled that... and i thought it was quite a effective, it did make the static page feel more epic and give an "oh shit" feeling...

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Last edited by MonteCristo on Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:15 am 
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    Having the timings on the eyebook conversation was nice. It could be done with a little javascript, though - no need for a movie. Though of course it would be easier to make the movie because it relies only on existing skills and programs.

    But if Rob wanted a javascript that unrolls eyebook conversations in real time with custom-set delays... I bet that a fan would write one fairly quickly.

    [quote=MonteCristo] Heck it might even be possible that dollamancers have already made guns (we know ace made a grenade); however making a few guns would be tough enough, and may even require a thinkamancy link to boost the dollamancer's power[/quote]

    I bet that if archons can do it, normal dollamancers can do it. Just, they're normally making other things.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:25 am 
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    I wonder how many of those "red archons" are actually dolls. We have already seen Ace build items that grant abilities that mimic archon abilities: flight, shockamancy, limited foolamancy. It would only take a little bit of realization to put all that together in one unit.

    Since a dollamancer can grant abilities they don't have access to, I wonder if they could grant leadership or the dollamancy special as well. If that is the case, and if archons can build doll archons, then doll archons could build doll archons. Recursive.

    Also, I am sure if it isn't possible, it could be with just a little bit of bending the rules. Should be a doable task by a master class carnymancer with access to an arkentool.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:29 am 
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    Nargrakhan wrote:
    +1 for reasons already stated. I hate the video updates with an extreme passion, and it's never been an issue until now because it was always optional. You've made it mandatory until the non-video post.

    Will unfortunately have to wait until that happens...


    I agree with your assessment of all the other video updates, but I really think you should check this one out. This is finally an update that was made for a video update, and I really think you are missing something if you don't experience it in this format.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:31 am 
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    Minor plot hole though... Parson can refuse to answer charlie if he thinks there is a danger to his side. Given that, shouldn't he had been able to refuse to give charlie an answer to how many archons it would take to take gobwinknob back in book 1?

    drachefly wrote:
    I bet that if archons can do it, normal dollamancers can do it. Just, they're normally making other things.


    Well we don't know if the archons have been making these things themselves... Charlie has been around for a LONG time and thus could have been employing dollamancers to stock up on weapons. Though the issue there is that it might pose a risk to his secrecy since the dollamancers would know he was stocking pilling weapons. Though i guess he could require them, and other casters in his employ, to submit to a non-disclosure agreement so they don't talk about what they have done for charlie. Afterall, the turnamancer's might have some idea on how manay archons he has with them coming over to boost the production; so he might want to keep them tight lipped as well... only thing he might let them talk about his how well he pays so that he could get a good reputation as a client(his positive reputation was mentioned).

    Though i guess one thing we don't know is whether or not common infantry can equip such items... Common infantry might require certain specials just to euip certain items; only archers can equip a bow, only diggers can equip shovels, and so on. Infantry might also not be able to euip magic items. Warlord's might be one of the few unit types that could equip magic items... maybe knights aswell since Stanely hobgobwin knights looked like they had special axes. though even knights might require specials to equip certain types of weapons. And that quality might extend to archons (which are a knight-class unit). So most sides might not have enough units to arm with guns, unlike Charlie who has hundreds of them

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    Last edited by MonteCristo on Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:35 am 
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    People noticed the rifles. But did you also see the gun turrets on the buildings? He has heavy weaponry as well.

    Also, the speculation that he might invade Stupidworld is brilliant, just brilliant!

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:46 am 
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    Hey, this one's to Rob - sorry everyone else for being a wet blanket.

    I'm a bit annoyed at the video only update, here. When I got into this comic, I loved the layout, and the Signamancy was amazing. How Parson was pictured, how everyone in Erfworld was ridiculously cute, and the clothes, particularly. After the new artist came on, a lot of people were complaining about the art, but I was like "whatever, he's new, he'll get it." And it really was pretty good, so no complaints from me.

    Then we get the new video format. .....Okay, FINE. I decided to read the layouts because I really don't want to watch a webcomic on a video (I tried it, didn't like it one bit). It robbed me of the awesome Signamancy, but hey, I can deal with that, at least I can get the story, and I was kind of used to Book 0.

    Now, a video only update on what is apparently an awesome update. BECAUSE it's an awesome update.

    ....

    Okay, look, I'm a pretty loyal reader and I am loving this story to marbits here, but if this happens too many times, I'm out. I am a Reader, not a watcher, and I'm dealing with no actual comic because it's your creation and such but this is just too much punishment. I'd just really appreciate if you would put a layout with the videos when they come out so I can enjoy the story in the closest way to my preference that you are providing.

    Thank you.

    P.S. Very sorry for the upset. :(

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:52 am 
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    DJMandwich wrote:
    He was asking for when the static, nonvideo, comic page for epilogue 25 will be posted—not Book 3 nor Book 0.

    And to answer the question, Rob did say "in a couple of days" directly below the video.

    Personally, this was the only video I enjoyed (had it muted - tried listening and immediately turned the sound off). I thought it was very well done. It worked for me only because it was not spoken dialogue but 'written' conversation. It was cool seeing the conversation play out as Parson would have seen it. And the final scene with pan out had exactly the effect on me that I am sure was intended.

    Ah, mea culpa. Sorry, ShieldOfAthena. I read the responses right after waking up, and in my sleep addled way thought 1) he's asking when are we going back to the comic page format and 2) I SHOULD RESPOND TO THIS RIGHT NOW.

    I'm better now, since I've had my coffee.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:56 am 
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    GKBeetle wrote:
    This is finally an update that was made for a video update, and I really think you are missing something if you don't experience it in this format.

    Agreed. There were some other updates which I think are better as videos, but this is the first one which was really designed for video. It would be very difficult to get stuff like the pauses or the music at the end across in the textual format as effectively.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:01 pm 
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    Dusso wrote:
    The units in the court with red glow look like some kind of decrypted?
    The whole scenery - troops layout reminded me of Imperium troopers from Empire Strikes Back :)


    There are four basic explainations about this

    1) Artist mistake. The artist is still getting the patterns of the characters down. Best example is Sizemore's vanishing pants. Maybe he did not realize the difference between the archons.

    2) Intentional contrast. The artist may have picked red in order to make the blue archons stand out against their blue background. He could have also picked red to convey mood.

    3) Denote different modes. The blue and red colors might denote "modes". For example "blue" could be peace-time mode. The units are less powerful, but have lower maintence. Charlie has four incentives to keep his archons in peace-time mode. 1) It saves money. 2) It demonstrates to others that Charlie is holding back, and thus open to negotiation from all directions. 3) The Signamancy of the units is more calming and welcoming, which illicits negotiation. 4) Leaving Peace-time mode becomes yet another service that can be charged for in emergencies (In Example: "I see that despite hiring my archon squad you are still losing that war. I know you can not afford another squad, yet alone pay for the rushed delivery fee, but for fee I can upgrade the abilities of the archons you hired immediately). "Red" could be war-time mode. Gobwin Knob however would would likely keep their archons in war mode since their aggression is obvious and they are rich, and the two people who know there are modes (Wanda & Stanley), would likely not even think to tell Parson there is a difference.

    4) Side-effect of Dollomancy Upgrades: The archons are now armed with guns and/or are supporting new "military cadet" uniforms.


    Last edited by IronBear on Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:05 pm 
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    In addition to all the other things people have mentioned about why rifles > bows & arrows, please remember that even in Erfworld, arrows are not unlimited. A real quiver can hold, I don't know, twenty, thirty? arrows. A single magazine can hold that many and a single unit could easily carry five or six mags. Lastly, the enemy can't pick up and use the ammo themselves.

    I also feel that the AAA is a relatively new addition, since Charlie may need some really heavy air defence capabilities to take down a swarm of dwagons.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:09 pm 
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    merging my post, last php board I used did that automatically(it also had a delete button)...ah, somebody posted in the middle. thats why


    Last edited by pseudoname on Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:12 pm 
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    About Video/Comic format issue: couldn't Rob just post a link to the comic page right under the video? Those who want to watch the video can just restrain from clicking the link.
    I myself rather like video format, but sometimes it's more convenient to just read.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:13 pm 
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    hate the videos, why no text? what could you possibly spoil?
    charlie the powerful mercenary side has an army?
    Tanaar wrote:
    @Balder and team: ignore the haters who have been trashing the video format of 25. Half of them straight-up admitted that they didn't bother viewing it as intended.

    I for one watched several videos before deciding I hated them
    the rest about having both is fine though, why not both? why remove the choice to read as we always have?
    shamelessmerc wrote:
    1) the videos don't load on my phone so I had to come and log on to real computer.

    this post(i only shortened because its long, not highlighting #1 specifically), except #3 is inverted, kept wishing i could skip ahead reliably in the video....read a line....wait for him to say it.....read the next line....wait.... spoken text is always far slower than just reading it yourself

    but mostly my disklike is from: if all characters have the exact same voice whats even the point of voiceover? its distracting and annoying


    Last edited by pseudoname on Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:27 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:16 pm 
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    A link to the page below the movie with a warning that the movie is better would be good enough for those who don't want to be spoiled and helpful for those who dislike the videos for whatever reason.

    MadZuri - good catch with the dolls. This has been foreshadowed a lot, actually. Transylvitto has human seeming dolls, Ace has hardware.

    Hmm, I think I've seen the red head in the Air Force suit before.

    I hope that Archon is named Rose, so they can Rock Out.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:34 pm 
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    MonteCristo wrote:
    Minor plot hole though... Parson can refuse to answer charlie if he thinks there is a danger to his side. Given that, shouldn't he had been able to refuse to give charlie an answer to how many archons it would take to take gobwinknob back in book 1?
    <snip>


    Not necessarily a plot hole. Charlie even mentions the possible explanation. When he says he has to view him as an enemy for Duty to really kick in and prevent revealing side damaging info in the calc response.

    Perhaps in book one, when he was still trying to make a deal with Charlie, he didn't yet see Charlie as an enemy to GK. Merely a Merc that happened to be working for the other side, but that could have been working for GK - had it not been for Stanley's refusal.
    It's a thought...


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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:35 pm 
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    First, weighing in on the "controversial" video first format:

    Our Grand Master Tour Guide DID say in his news post that this was an experiment. It's enough to say "this didn't work for me" without giving the poor guy a bad cookie.

    Which, Rob: This didn't work for me. ;) Although I think my reason differs from most, I liked the way the eyebook paced with the video and it definitely did convey everything you were looking for (the pause in Parson's responses, the big ending) in a way that written and comic formats weren't quite going to be able to do as well, at least not without using forum spoiler tags on the main page somehow. All of that went just fine, and it wouldn't be a bad move to make every now and then.

    Frankly, it's that voice actor. Soooooooo dry. I don't know who's coaching him, but there's a LOT of room for improvement in his performance. And that's not just hyperbole, I would be happy to back it up by recording the audio myself to demonstrate some of the huge gaps between the choices he made and the choices that would have contributed something more tasteful to the video. Not to say I'm perfect, actually quite the opposite - If /I/ can do ten times better, imagine what someone better than me can do....

    Peace spoken on that front, moving on to content. I think it's clever and cool that Charlie went to Parson for help in acceding to Jetstone's request. One big note: This whole idea of Parson being able to refuse a calculation that hurts his own side does come off as a HUGE mistake in light of Book 1's calculation regarding "how many additional archons would be needed to take Gobwin Knob". Ideas that are plausible for explaining it away exist in this very thread, but it would be nice early on in Book 3 to have some kind of official reconciliation/explanation for that inconsistency, because it's just going to gnaw away at readers and cause problems with suspending disbelief as we go forward.

    Absolutely LOVED Charlie's "U mad bro" line. ;) Erfworld has this great setup where any pop culture reference which would be lame in another context comes shining through as nurturing the backstory here, and I love just about every single one that I see. Not to mention I occasionally learn a reference I wouldn't otherwise be exposed to, so it actually helps my social life. ;)

    Eagerly ready to toss money at the Book 3 Kickstarter as soon as it opens up. Be nice if there was a reward in there to buy Books 1, 2 and 3, even with a long-term IOU in there, because that's something I probably wouldn't do in the store but would throw a decent amount of money (like probably 250% value) on a Kickstarter for. Kickstarter just makes it feel more... noble, somehow. Go fig.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:58 pm 
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    I have to say I skipped every other video update after trying it once. I also got the names of the thinkamancers from the video. Basically the video format doesn't add anything. Or should I say didn't. This made great use of the format and was well worth it.

    Anyway lots of potential reasons for the red archons. It might just be signamancy. Before they were nice and helpful. They existed to aid other sides. These archons? War mode. Actually that's probably the IC explanation. The OOC explanation is to have the offset.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:07 pm 
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    I have noticed a tendency of readers to draw broad assumptions based on what we have seem previously without making more simple ones. Admittedly, it's a very common thing to do, since if you don't you're likely to start straying off into epileptic trees territory. But how about some more occam's razor thinking here? In my opinion I don't think you're all considering something important when you make theories about why the army or archons is glowing red (and I'm 75% sure they are all archons and not dolls btw, because archons all glow and golems have never have).

    The most simple explanation I can come up with is it's simply Raiment. Any commander can apply his personal Raiment to forces under his command (or someone else's, as with the uncroaked horde in book 1), and there is nothing saying you can't change your Raiment either. Actually, it makes sense that archon glow would play into raiment even in context - Charlscomm features heavy blue themes, all his archons wear it and glow it. Meanwhile wanda applied her black and red theme to all her decrypted archons, and thus they glow red instead. I expect a Jetstone archon would glow golden. Note, too, that the archons are still dressed in blue, so maybe Charlie has made a concious decision to alter his colors slightly. Maybe these is the colors he had before founding Charlscomm, who knows? All blue is certainly friendlier.

    I can't really buy the signamancy thing, because the Archons were immediately red upon decryption despite the battle being over, and they are always battle ready anyway, even working for Charlscomm and blue.

    But thinking a little more laterally, it's entirely possible he could be adopting a red glow for his forces to conduct a smear campaign on gobwin knob. Their archon army is likely well known by the rest of the locals, and only the royals and their supporters really hate them. What if mysterious packs of Gobwin Knob colored archons began attacking random sides? While the ruler immediately knows who has attacked their cities, that does not apply to attacks outside of them. The ability for raiment to be used in subterfuge is something I've thought about a lot.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:11 pm 
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    My random thoughts:

    I guess that Parsons' dorm isn't in the temple.

    Charlie is still playing at not knowing that Parson is coming at him. Does he not know for sure that Parson knows that he can spy on thinkagrams, or is he just pretending that?

    Parson sounds cranky.

    The book scrolls now?

    Red archons? I wonder if Charlie got some upkeepless archons going on.

    Woo guns.

    Did charlie redecorate? His place looks more squat and fortress looking now. Or maybe it's just the angle from inside for once.

    I wonder what the difference between the light and dark blue wearing archons is.

    Charlie's even prepared for a night air attack. I'd be paranoid too.

    Are they practicing with the guns to get used to them, or for normal training xp? I've never been able to figure out if practice is helpful for combat outside of xp.

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