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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:27 pm 
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ManaCaster wrote:
It would make sense, since Betsy would want to make Jillian into her ideal image of a princess but would lack the skill to do a good job, but I interpreted this scene as a mere reluctance to talk about it.


That's what I thought originally too. It may not have even had a second meaning when it was first written, but it takes on an entirely different possible context now.

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     Post Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:19 pm 
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    Beeskee wrote:
    ManaCaster wrote:
    It would make sense, since Betsy would want to make Jillian into her ideal image of a princess but would lack the skill to do a good job, but I interpreted this scene as a mere reluctance to talk about it.


    That's what I thought originally too. It may not have even had a second meaning when it was first written, but it takes on an entirely different possible context now.


    Similarly, I find it weird how casually she'll eat an apple in LIAB, compared to how nervous she was back in IPTSF after the whole poison apple trap. Not that people (myself included) don't get over negative food associations, but it just seems surreal.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:50 pm 
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    It's been thousands of turns, and this is from an allied (and not only allied, but friendly) side.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:30 pm 
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    drachefly wrote:
    It's been thousands of turns, and this is from an allied (and not only allied, but friendly) side.


    I didn't see anyone hand her an apple in any of the pages before this, so it seems to me she pulled it out of her own saddle bag (open under her arm) implying she either foraged for it herself or it popped for her (assuming rations pop for barbarians, I think they do but I'm not 100% sure)

    Spicymancer wrote:
    Similarly, I find it weird how casually she'll eat an apple in LIAB, compared to how nervous she was back in IPTSF after the whole poison apple trap. Not that people (myself included) don't get over negative food associations, but it just seems surreal.


    That depends on what you make the association with. If you went to a restaurant and got food poisoning from a hamburger you would most likely associate the issue with the source of the food (the restaurant) rather than the food itself (the burger). Given her experiences with Haffaton and plant traps it would be natural for her to be fearful of any plant that grows in their influence.

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:18 am 
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    Daefaroth wrote:
    (assuming rations pop for barbarians, I think they do but I'm not 100% sure)

    She`s not a barbarian any longer on expository bridge.

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     Post Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:10 pm 
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    My view of the Jester thingy is one I've seen roughly articulated before in this thread. I'll try and elaborate on this here. Long ranty speculation incoming.

    The Jester is Fate's agent within Jillian, driving her to fulfill her function.

    I think of Fate as more like "Plot", though. Erfworld looks like a game, so its natural that there would be a story arc. Fate's goal, then, is to bring about the unification of Erfworld into one side, and it has a favorite at any given time.

    Charlie is from Stupidworld, falls into Erfworld and, seeing himself surrounded by a game, sets to winning it. This is, more or less, the point of Erfworld and at this point he's an ally of Fate. Olive supports him.

    Playing around with game mechanics and various styles of magic, Charlie has one of several possible epiphanies.
    1. He prefers Erfworld to Stupidworld. (Plausible, he has a harem of Archons and a strategy game to play, he lives forever and blisses out whenever he wants.)
    2. The completion of Erfworld's fate (the unification or what have you), will mean the end of Erfworld/his death.

    Basically, though, he doesn't want the game to end. For whichever reason, he'd rather play forever. He rejects Olive's demands and becomes in motivation more or less the Charlie we all know and loathe.

    Consequently, Charlie develops an overwhelming force, hundreds of Archons, telecom of Erfworld, his various tricks, etc, and then uses it to NOT conquer Erfworld. Further, he uses it to prevent anyone else from doing so, via mercenary work and diplomatic skullduggery. Charlie's objective is nothing less than that Erfworld never know peace.

    Charlie's Rule #Whatever: We are mercenaries paid to win wars. Corollary: We must never end all wars. Not quite the right way to phrase that, but that's the idea.

    Fate gives up on him, finds another player, the Plot begins, once again, to try and bring the game to conclusion. Parson is being pushed by Fate to conquer Erfworld, thereby winning the game and ending it. Charlie opposes him to preserve Erfworld.

    There is a Jester (or equivalent) in the head of every unit with a Fate. They urge the unit to take actions that bring about Parson's triumph and Charlie's destruction.

    Parson, unknowingly, is in opposition to Fate. He threw away Ruthlessness, and he tried to sit idle. Ironically, if he could have a frank conversation with Charlie the Big C would be PERFECTLY OK with Parson living forever in Erfworld. He'd be Charlie 2.0. But Charlie, seeing him as only Fate's puppet, did his best to kill him/send him home, prompting Parson to become dedicated to destroying Charlie. Its super ironic.

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     Post Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:40 pm 
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    Walter wrote:
    Very clever things


    Agree on the interpretation of the Jester, and broadly that whatever the 'Fate GM' wants for Erfworld (quite possibly unification), that is what Charlie is opposed to.

    One further thing. Olive Branch suggests that in the trial that once Charlie attuned to the Dish, he stopped wanting to fight everybody. Assuming that there is some truth in what she says, could this be a result of Charlie's 'Jester', amplified by the attunement, trying to lead him down a path of bringing Peace on Erf? And, if she did try and use Flower Power to de-attune him, perhaps Olive didn't fail entirely - perhaps Olive managed to kill Charlie's 'Jester' and turn him against the very concept of Fate which he was acting as a Tool of before.

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