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 Post Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:39 am 
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Beyond, in the sunlight, stood an army of tiny people in elaborate dress. Hoop skirts and pointed shoes.
So they're Archons, if we can believe anything from Jillian's trip.

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:26 am 
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    Peep-at-you uses Thunderbolt! It's not very effective
    Flower Lizard is paralyzed! Maybe it can't attack
    Flower Lizard tries to run away!
    Flower Lizard is Paralyzed! It can't move
    Jillian uses Gate Smash! Its Super effective
    Flower Lizard Faints!

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:28 am 
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    Quote:
    “Think we’re too high!” she shouted.

    “Clearly,” said the Snipe.


    Nice double entendre! :)

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:38 am 
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    With Olive now dead how will this all effect what was mentioned in the epilog of book 2? Jillian has won this battle but how will this play out I think Charlie had a purpose for his daughter and he obliviously could have dealt with her so why had she not?

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:51 am 
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    If the army at the gate consisted of Archons, why would Olive expect them to obey her? Anyway they'd probably be airborne. No, something else is going on here.

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:52 am 
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    Wait, I though Jack was out of juice?

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:52 am 
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    twhitt wrote:
    Quote:
    Beyond, in the sunlight, stood an army of tiny people in elaborate dress. Hoop skirts and pointed shoes.
    So they're Archons, if we can believe anything from Jillian's trip.


    I agree with that conclusion. Natural Allies would have been forced to attack, I think. Archons that were paid for, on the other hand, don't HAVE to necessarily attack...

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:56 am 
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    Shai_hulud wrote:
    Wait, I though Jack was out of juice?


    He was out of juice in Book 2 before he died.

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:09 am 
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    So is the ding dong part of a celebration or is that a doorbell? And did the army belong to Olive or was that lost when she was captured? I doubt that there's another heir that took command, but it's possible. Do natural allies' alliances end when the ruler is captured with no heir? Jillian was captured, but Faq had no other capital sites. And I wonder what the others saw. Every other person present would be an interesting view point. The casters and how they view each other/the king. Jack specifically, with his way of looking at things. The king. And Wanda of course, for her view of Jillian. And the peeps.

    Now there's an army outside of the city that really can't defend itself. But an army of high munchkins might not be able to climb the city walls of the capital.

    Too bad Olive died like that. I bet she was worth a ton of xp.

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:19 am 
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    I really think Olive should have ran for the MK. Rebuilt her power base from their.

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:20 am 
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    As the owner of Bulbagarden / Bulbapedia, I approve of this episode. =D

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:28 am 
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    Oh, sweet, the owner of Bulbapedia!

    Somehow I didn't expect Olive to die. I thought fate forbade it somehow, but I gotta remember that all we really know is that FAQ is toast.

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:01 pm 
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    Well, if she is actually dead, Jillian is the one that did it, like Fate decreed.

    also: Don't let the gate hit ya, where the gwiffon should have bit ya :D

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:09 pm 
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    I'm wondering if maybe the army was made up of High elves. It could be possible that, unlike regular units, natural allies do not automatically disband when a side falls. The only times we have seen sides fall and their field units disband, they were for sides that we never confirmed them to having Natural allies(unaroyal, goodminton). As for the army not attacking, its possible that they were under the effects of the garden just like Jillian and faq was so they were too disoriented to attack

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:20 pm 
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    MonteCristo wrote:
    It could be possible that, unlike regular units, natural allies do not automatically disband when a side falls.
    I think we actually do have suitable precedent on this. When the Gobwins rose up and killed Saline, GK lost the capital, so the side ended. But the Gobwins didn't disband.

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:26 pm 
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    MonteCristo wrote:
    I'm wondering if maybe the army was made up of High elves. It could be possible that, unlike regular units, natural allies do not automatically disband when a side falls. The only times we have seen sides fall and their field units disband, they were for sides that we never confirmed them to having Natural allies(unaroyal, goodminton). As for the army not attacking, its possible that they were under the effects of the garden just like Jillian and faq was so they were too disoriented to attack


    I'll offer 3 possibilities who the munchkin army is: Archons, High Elves or Marbits.

    Marbits: A natural ally, short stature, actually do have pointy shoes and ears. They probably don't disband when Side ends. I find it unlikely. There's no reason for Marbits to be near Olive's Garden.

    Archons: The description doesn't really fit in. And they would have been flying.

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    Beyond, in the sunlight, stood an army of tiny people in elaborate dress. Hoop skirts and pointed shoes. Elaborate hats and hairstyles. But they were an army, Jillian was sure of that.


    I find High Elves to be most likely. They are smoking things, giggling all the time and are wearing "screaming"/garish colours. And also dresses. Maybe this is how they look to themselves when they are high on their drugs? High Elves are also a natural ally so they probably don't disband and there would be a reason for them to be near Olive's Garden: they are using plant-based drugs and there's lots of different plants in the garden. And High Elves also like to sing and make noise...

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:40 pm 
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    I'm betting they're archons, and Charlie is going to do some gunboat diplomacy here.

    The entire side of Faq is incapacitated by the smoke now, and knows more about Charlie's history than anyone else in all of Erfworld. They can't possibly mount a defense against the army of archons he's got on their doorstep. Charlie is always a businessman, though... so although Faq is potentially a threat because of what they know, he'll offer them a choice of "everyone sign a lifetime NDA or say hello to a crapton of archons who are knocking on the door" (also, no one's paying him to kill an entire side, and Charlie's a Carniemancer; he knows how these stories go... someone always escapes).

    I bet there's even a Rule about it, along the lines of "We're in this for the smuckers; don't leave any debts uncollected. (corollary: ... unless you get them on an installment plan & tack on a high interest rate)"

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:56 pm 
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    No one in particular wrote:
    I'm betting they're archons, and Charlie is going to do some gunboat diplomacy here.

    The entire side of Faq is incapacitated by the smoke now, and knows more about Charlie's history than anyone else in all of Erfworld. They can't possibly mount a defense against the army of archons he's got on their doorstep. Charlie is always a businessman, though... so although Faq is potentially a threat because of what they know, he'll offer them a choice of "everyone sign a lifetime NDA or say hello to a crapton of archons who are knocking on the door" (also, no one's paying him to kill an entire side, and Charlie's a Carniemancer; he knows how these stories go... someone always escapes).

    I bet there's even a Rule about it, along the lines of "We're in this for the smuckers; don't leave any debts uncollected. (corollary: ... unless you get them on an installment plan & tack on a high interest rate)"
    Or perhaps it's: "The opportunity to get paid by the enemy for extracting your own troops doesn't just knock on your door every day."

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:18 pm 
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    I suppose archons could have veiled themselves to fool Olive, but what would have been the point?

    And they would have to have been in the hex already, since presumably it's still Haffaton's turn. None of this sounds very plausible, but I don't have a better explanation. It's a pretty safe bet that Charlie is behind it, though.

    Edit: Oh duh!

    Charlie was trying to trick Olive into thinking her troops were out there, so that she would escape and he could capture her. With his two or three veiled archons.

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:38 pm 
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    I don't think the units outside the city gates are Archons. First off, it was still Haffaton's turn. Secondly, the city was controlled by Faq. It has been argued in other threads that the garden is in the same hex as the city, and surrounds it. The only units that could enter the hex (had move) would be those already allied to Haffaton before the start of the turn. Archons would have no way of entering the hex the city and garden is in (exceptions following). This leaves several possibilities. Natural allies is the most likely. Less likely is that there were already an army of archons in the battle space, or that Haffaton allied with Charlie last turn. Seeing as how Charlie was caught off guard by his daughter in the thinkagram, I really doubt the second and third options.

    Also, can we please burn the epileptic twee about Janis being Olive? Ding dong the witch is dead. Loving the pokemon references as well.

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