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 Post Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:40 pm 
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Power isn't a problem. Pewpew guns needed it. All magic items require power.

Intelligence ended for the scarecrow with Maxwell's death. Not surprising for a dollamancer. Rob gives ability to Disciplines based on their name, so a Thinkamancer in a link should be able to add thinking without Maxwell's Life cost.

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     Post Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:57 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    Lamech wrote:

    That reference must refer to standard boats, which we can then infer are treated like units and thus popped by cities, much like Siege Engines. Vehicles on the other hand are stated to be items, and we've never heard of items having levels.

    Siege engines are popped by cities and yet they are but items. Cities have levels and yet they are not units. Levels are not exclusive to units, city popping is not exclusive to units. I reject your reality and substitute my own! But seriously, I think that Jillian's magic boat was a boat like any other.

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     Post Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:03 pm 
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    Lamech wrote:
    But seriously, I think that Jillian's magic boat was a boat like any other.
    Um...clarify? Because we know it's anything BUT "like any other boat".

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     Post Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:06 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    That reference must refer to standard boats, which we can then infer are treated like units and thus popped by cities, much like Siege Engines. Vehicles on the other hand are stated to be items, and we've never heard of items having levels.
    The rule is actually that self-powered vehicles need Turnamancy, probably because they are powered by magic. See Book 0, Episode 44. I'm sure that a bicycle wouldn't require Turnamancy, and a wide variety of ships could be powered by wind or by oars. It might even be possible to build a self-powered vehicle like a Stupidworld automobile without using magic at all, but probably know one in Erfworld knows how to do it.

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     Post Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:17 pm 
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    I forgot the Turnamancy rule. The most powerful items lready take Links, so it probably holds true even in links.

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     Post Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:23 pm 
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    Lilwik wrote:
    The rule is actually that self-powered vehicles need Turnamancy, probably because they are powered by magic.

    Ah great catch on the wording, thank you Lilwik because that does help clarify it a bit.

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     Post Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:28 am 
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    On the discussion on whether Dollamancy items can carry units out of the hex, recall that heavy elephant dolls already exist that can be mounted.

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     Post Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:42 am 
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    From Book 0, Episode 44: "They had many of the benefits of constructed units like golems, but they functioned as items."

    The question is, what's the difference between an item that you ride on, and a unit that you ride on? I'm at a complete loss for ideas. Normally I'd expect items and units to be obviously different because they have almost nothing in common. An item is a thing that you carry around, like a sword or a cigar, and a unit is a living thing that walks around and engages in combat. But when you have items that act like units, where exactly does the line get drawn? What is the feature that exactly distinguishes items from units? It's certainly not Life, most obviously because there are uncroaked units, but also because Episode 44 says vehicles function as items which sounds like it means something technical about the rules of Erfworld, like something that items can do that units can't do.

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     Post Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:54 am 
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    Maybe it's about what they don't do? Units do a bunch of things. An unled unit will autoengage and fight a nearby enemy. Whereas an "unled" item will just sit there and do nothing.

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     Post Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:53 am 
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    I would imagine it comes down to stats. Units have stats and riding a mount allows you to use the move of the mount instead of your own (otherwise the Dragon Express wouldn't work). If an item cannot have move then even if it allows you to move in special ways (gain the flying special, move while incapacitated) it is still limited by the unit stats of the wielder. Siege equipment might go against this to some extent, but it's also quite possible that they are assigned units which must use their own move for the siege to advance.

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     Post Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:56 pm 
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    GrandReaper wrote:
    If an item cannot have move then even if it allows you to move in special ways (gain the flying special, move while incapacitated) it is still limited by the unit stats of the wielder.
    I can't believe that how far you can go in a magically driven boat is limited to how far you could go without the boat. I can believe it for siege equipment, though, since I expect it needs units to push or pull it and is not magically driven.

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