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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 112
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:50 pm 
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Forgive me if all of this has been said before, but I don't think Parson is going to try to attack the Magic Kingdom. They are not his enemy, and Charlie is.

More importantly, the only reason Parson is getting his way in/through the magic kingdom is that he has factions backing him up, the predictamancers and the GTTMA. Why would he make enemies of them? Anyway, given how powerful casters are, I think any of these factions could take him on. Can you imagine what the combined firepower of those thinkamancers could do to anyone's brain, if they exerted themselves? I dread to think of what the carnymancers are capable of, and my yet do, despite being restrained by the other factions.

Interestingly, his gambit with Sizemore has armored not only the new portal to GK, but the entrance to the tunnel back to where the GK portal used to be! He is definitely going to be taking bodies through the Magic Kingdom to somewhere else, but the question is where? If he could, I'll bet he'd shove a decrypted army up Charlie's gate....

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 112
     Post Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:29 pm 
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    Taikei no Yuurei wrote:
    Not exactly, but we do know that the field units don't disband, and overall nothing really seems to happen to the side, because everyone is still worried about Olive bringing units to FAQ's new capital to rescue her. That indicates that she has units in the field, which means she most likely has a capital somewhere (we know she has the sites for it). At the very least she has the rest of her cities which are providing a treasury for her units. She may have to go out to one of the capital sites to actually make it a capital (which kinda returns to my earlier question of what exactly the benefit of a capital is), but overall it sounds like the loss of the capital really hasn't hurt Olive.

    Read book 0 updates again. Faq's new Capital =/= Haffaton's Capital.

    Faq took over El Efbaum, which was capital city/site in Haffaton, but not Haffaton's Capital, which is called Haffaton, not El Efbaum. Olive's turning/croaking goes under "no ruler, no side" rule. We don't know what would have happened if Faq captured Olive and Haffaton's Capital Haffaton, instead of El Efbaum.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 112
     Post Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:33 pm 
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    I'd say this is the end of the magic kingdom. He's not going to be decrypting some small army, he'll bring an army at least just as big as one of the sizes involved in the recent battle (all of jetstone is comprised of living units). And the casters wont be on the winning team. PArson already owns the thinkamancers, florists, and predictamancers wich are all equally scary, particularly with predictamancers decreeing he has already won. also, Aditionally, we have yet to see a croakmancer other than wanda. And every caster that dies, wanda will decrypt. I believe decrypted casters will be able to cast, just as archons can. If she can decrypt even creatures brought into the game via other arkanetools, some caster unit will be cheesecake, specially given her skill level.

    The problem with this scenario is that if parson takes the magic kingdom, then the game is broken. I foresee there will be some limitation to the use of the magic kingdom, like a treaty that establishes Gobwin Knob's rule but allows some rights to the casters. Or half the casters escape trough the portals. Or Parson decides not to take the MK but just establishe a permanent outpost to guard Gobwin's Knob interests there (wich require a lot of guarding, hence the huge army). Or he just orders all corpses be brought to MK, razes the city, then changes capitals again, and brings everyone to Stanley to be decroaked, or at some other point nearer to the battlefront.

    In any case if Parson just beats the casters down and takes MK and then finds that casters can go trough portals and attack every capital it'll turn to the endgame of this strategy game/world where the winning faction begins rounding up the survivors to get the wining conditions.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 112
     Post Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:11 pm 
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    Ah, I thought it was their actual capital, not just a capital site. Suppose we don't know much about what happens when a capital is taken then. All we know is that no one in Jetstone seemed terribly interested in it before it became a means to trap Parson for Charlie. There was that little blurb from Artemis, but that might have been an 'after the city fell' sort of deal, as opposed to something they actively planned, since Teramis (know I spelled that wrong) seemed intent on getting his father out without much worry for moving the capital first.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 112
     Post Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:21 pm 
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    ManaCaster wrote:
    Transferring capitals is never mentioned by Trammenis, but Artemis apparently hears rumors to the effect: http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/LIAB_Text_50

    It would be kind of weird to talk of the King switching capitals if they expect Gobwin Knob conquering it to do so automatically.


    Well, it would deny the enemy the opportunity to capture a capitol, and perhaps the king switching it from another city before it's captured ... does something good? I dunno. But they were hustling Slately out of the city to another city, and if they needed to switch capitols to prevent something bad from happening, the logical place and time to do it was Spacerock on Slately's way out.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 112
     Post Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:48 pm 
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    Capitals must serve a purpose or they would not exist. Are non-capitals merely resource generators? That would imply that a capital is absolutely necessary if you want to escape barbarism.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 112
     Post Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:53 pm 
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    Why troops in the MK? Perhaps because Parson just found out the the Great Minds have been trying to use him as an unwitting pawn, and somebody is gonna have to take some lumps for forgetting that he's a player.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 112
     Post Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:04 pm 
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    This answers one of my objections to the TMK invasion theory; how to establish a bridgehead. The price, however is completely giving up on the element of surprise. The Casters guarded the Portal Park closely before, this thing is going to attract a lot of attention; anything potentially threatening coming out of it will be blasted before it can move. The tunnel is already compromised - remember Jefty was down there, so that's no go. As for trying to fool Charlie with it; I think Charlie has enough intel from the Carnies to be suspicious of what's going on.

    Some argue that Parson could pull off an invasion because the GMs and some others are already on his side. I think that's backwards; they see him as their instrument against Charlie, if he appeared to become a bigger threat to TMK they would get rid of him and take their chances with another plan. No point burning down your house to stop a burglar, is there? What he's doing appears to be interesting to the GMs but not threatening.

    He is moving his force into a bubble, outside Erf gamespace but isolated from TMK; sounds like he is planning for something bad to happen in Spacerock while his force sits it out in a bunker, and/or he wants a secure location from which to talk to the GMs.

    If a capital falls while the ruler is not there, can the ruler reach another of his cities and declare it his capital? That appeared to be what Jetstone were doing. Jetstone still exists as a side, and once they reach Jetstone City that will be their capital. (edit: wasn't that what Stanley was doing when he expected GK to fall at the end of Book1?) If Parson cedes Spacerock, can Stanley declare GK capital again? But the portal in the pyramid would disappear and the old GK one would reappear...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 112
     Post Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:15 pm 
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    Vreejack wrote:
    Capitals must serve a purpose or they would not exist. Are non-capitals merely resource generators? That would imply that a capital is absolutely necessary if you want to escape barbarism.

    There are a few things that we know capitals can do that other cities can't. One is the MK portal. Two is that every unit in the capital get the full bonus from the chief warlord, as though s/he was stacked with them. Three is that heirs can only be popped at capitals (Not quite 100% sure on this, but it seems very likely.) Four is that they can be made differently than other cities, with things like extra strong towers/walls/dungeons/etc. though that may be capital sites as opposed to actual capitals, though it might just be that most people keep the capitals they capture the same, but only the actual capital can be built differently.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 112
     Post Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:57 pm 
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    Hey guys, wait a second........

    What if Parson is intending not to set up an ambush, or a garrison in the MK...... But to invade Jetstone itself through the MK portals, and capture THAT city, send Jetstone Barbarian, and end the side once in one fell swoop on this turn? With all of Jetstone's forces having marshaled at Spacerock... the new capitol would be very undermanned and open to a surprise invasion before they learn that they will need to reinforces the MK portal in their city!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 112
     Post Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:32 pm 
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    Vreejack wrote:
    Capitals must serve a purpose or they would not exist. Are non-capitals merely resource generators? That would imply that a capital is absolutely necessary if you want to escape barbarism.

    "... he's headin' for a ruined capital. So when Gobwin Knob goes down and Stanley becomes a barbarian, he can start a new side right off." - http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/TBFGK_99

    So yes, Capitals are necessary in some fashion. All of Faq's commanders were able to survive losing the capital and yet remain a side, albeit as pseudo barbarians, so I presume the capital is needed to give your side a treasury.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 112
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:07 am 
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    Hmm. Is the fact that he got Wanda to decrypt one unit of out each possible decrypted knight / grunt class stack relevant?
    i.e. he has 32-ish knight corpses, so decrypt 4, and 240 grunts, so decrypt 30?
    Add a warlord for their bonus in each possible corpse location.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 112
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:06 pm 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user is a Tool! Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Has collected at least one unit
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    ManaCaster wrote:
    Vreejack wrote:
    Capitals must serve a purpose or they would not exist. Are non-capitals merely resource generators? That would imply that a capital is absolutely necessary if you want to escape barbarism.

    "... he's headin' for a ruined capital. So when Gobwin Knob goes down and Stanley becomes a barbarian, he can start a new side right off." - http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/TBFGK_99

    So yes, Capitals are necessary in some fashion. All of Faq's commanders were able to survive losing the capital and yet remain a side, albeit as pseudo barbarians, so I presume the capital is needed to give your side a treasury.


    In both the fall of FAQ and Stanley's escape plan the side in question had or would have had no cities left. We have yet to have a scenario where a capital was captured while other cities were still held outside of Book 0, but we don't know the details of that situation either!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 112
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:04 pm 
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    I don't know if it's just me, but for some reason I'm when I was looking at the art on the page today, absorbing the general feels, I just got the feeling that Wanda needs to die for the story. I dunno, I like her but I get this weird feeling aboot her. Maybe an atonement/ inner peace thing.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 112
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:00 pm 
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    Is Charlie the overlord of a side? If so, there should be a portal somewhere that leads straight to his fortress. I'm just sayin...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 112
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:06 pm 
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    Goshen wrote:
    Is Charlie the overlord of a side? If so, there should be a portal somewhere that leads straight to his fortress. I'm just sayin...

    Well, knowing Charlie I still think it's possible he's not actually an Overlord. BUT, to answer your question more directly, we know that he does hire MK casters for special projects so yes he does have a portal. HOWEVER....given his paranoia and the fact that he has the 'Dish, said casters might be mysteriously unable to remember WHICH portal is his after they return.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 112
     Post Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:11 pm 
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    Goshen wrote:
    Is Charlie the overlord of a side? If so, there should be a portal somewhere that leads straight to his fortress. I'm just sayin...

    Yeah, it was stated that he was a ruler (previous in the emerald city that FAQ just captured in book 0, known then as 'the wizard'.) Where exactly he is is unknown, but we do know thanks to the decrypted archons that he has a level 5 capital and nothing else. He also presumably has a portal because he hires various casters at times (specifically stating turnamancers to improve unit production).

    I doubt Parson would go after him with just what he has at hand unless he can get all the thinkamancers, hippymancers, and some various other casters to join him in the assault because we know that the capital is guarded by a number of very high level archons at least, who no doubt would get a massive bonus from the dish (canceled by the arkenpliers I suppose). Even so, it'd be super risky. And it also seems like it'd be a bit of a letdown for Charlie to get nailed so 'easily' after all this. Still, it is possible.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 112
     Post Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:50 am 
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    0beron wrote:
    Goshen wrote:
    Is Charlie the overlord of a side? If so, there should be a portal somewhere that leads straight to his fortress. I'm just sayin...

    Well, knowing Charlie I still think it's possible he's not actually an Overlord. BUT, to answer your question more directly, we know that he does hire MK casters for special projects so yes he does have a portal. HOWEVER....given his paranoia and the fact that he has the 'Dish, said casters might be mysteriously unable to remember WHICH portal is his after they return.


    Or he has a very deep pit with very pointy spikes in front of the portal. Or an iris. Anyway only invited units will survive.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 112
     Post Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:43 am 
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    mortissimus wrote:
    0beron wrote:
    Goshen wrote:
    Is Charlie the overlord of a side? If so, there should be a portal somewhere that leads straight to his fortress. I'm just sayin...

    Well, knowing Charlie I still think it's possible he's not actually an Overlord. BUT, to answer your question more directly, we know that he does hire MK casters for special projects so yes he does have a portal. HOWEVER....given his paranoia and the fact that he has the 'Dish, said casters might be mysteriously unable to remember WHICH portal is his after they return.


    Or he has a very deep pit with very pointy spikes in front of the portal. Or an iris. Anyway only invited units will survive.


    Why would he start by sending units through? I think a dirtamancy/dollamancy bomb made by ace and Sizemore would probably do a decent job of clearing the portal room of anything in there before he sent troops through. The idea that there is anywhere on Erfworld which could be safe from Parson if he set his mind to it is silly. If Parson swings you can bet Charlie will end up with a black eye.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 112
     Post Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:04 pm 
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    I wonder if portals can be destroyed? Could a dirtamancy/dollmancy bomb remove Charlie's access to the MK?

    Furthermore, imagine sending a veiled decrypted Jack through a portal on an assassination mission.

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