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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 111
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:16 am 
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ManaCaster wrote:
coyo wrote:
So will parson take the dead troops through the magic kingdom through Charlies portal and decrypt them there?

Very unlikely.


I would tend to agree actually. He doesn't know where charlie's portal is. He might be able to decrypt them in the magic kingdom itself and try to take control of it. That too would be risky as casters there are very powerful.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 111
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:59 am 
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    coyo wrote:
    ManaCaster wrote:
    coyo wrote:
    So will parson take the dead troops through the magic kingdom through Charlies portal and decrypt them there?

    Very unlikely.


    I would tend to agree actually. He doesn't know where charlie's portal is. He might be able to decrypt them in the magic kingdom itself and try to take control of it. That too would be risky as casters there are very powerful.

    I don't get why so many people came up with this idea.
    What's the point in trying to conquer the Magic Kingdom?
    The casters there are totally OP, some are probably going to be stronger than Olive Branch.
    And if they did conquer it, they'd have control of loads and loads and caster, making the game unfair for any other side.
    Not the best storytelling IMO, so no way Rob is going that way.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 111
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:37 am 
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    LordBiscuit wrote:
    I don't get why so many people came up with this idea.
    What's the point in trying to conquer the Magic Kingdom?
    The casters there are totally OP, some are probably going to be stronger than Olive Branch.
    And if they did conquer it, they'd have control of loads and loads and caster, making the game unfair for any other side.
    Not the best storytelling IMO, so no way Rob is going that way.

    I'll admit that figuring out how to conquer the Magic Kingdom, or at least leave a garrison, is a fun mental exercise. But yeah, I really don't get how anyone would jump from speculation about Parson's "genius" move to this either.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 111
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:45 am 
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    I've read many of the theories, such as Firewalls, Grow towers, Assemble the dust, Use the scroll, etc but none of the ones I've described show a need to hold off on the decryption. Wanda could decrypt the bodies and still use the pliers to decrypt the newly re-assembled dust.
    Ergo...the genius plan must involve using the bodies, somehow, as that is the only reason I can see for not decrypting, now.
    It would seem that Sizemore's juice is also involved so I'm not sure the zombie apocalypse on the MK has need of that thus I'm discounting that one as well ( That plus the fact that I think Rob is far too good a writer to throw something so one-sided and OP at us).
    That kind of leaves us with dirtamancy traps involving bodies. I had previously supported the theory of bluffed Bracer calculation specifically because it used the bodies and a specifically timed decryption to dupe Charlie...but again that doesn't need Sizemore's juice so it can't be the plan (it may still however be involved)..

    One such theory that stacks up is to have Spacerock seem destroyed and deserted apart from the bodies as a juicy target for whatever forces are nearby but load it with dirtamancy traps and have wanda mass decrypt at the opportune moment.
    Any others need to be able to fulfill the requirements of having to hold off decryption and have Sizemore use up juice...and also be 'genius'

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 111
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:33 am 
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    Werebiscuit wrote:
    I've read many of the theories, such as Firewalls, Grow towers, Assemble the dust, Use the scroll, etc but none of the ones I've described show a need to hold off on the decryption. Wanda could decrypt the bodies and still use the pliers to decrypt the newly re-assembled dust.
    Ergo...the genius plan must involve using the bodies, somehow, as that is the only reason I can see for not decrypting, now.
    It would seem that Sizemore's juice is also involved so I'm not sure the zombie apocalypse on the MK has need of that thus I'm discounting that one as well ( That plus the fact that I think Rob is far too good a writer to throw something so one-sided and OP at us).
    That kind of leaves us with dirtamancy traps involving bodies. I had previously supported the theory of bluffed Bracer calculation specifically because it used the bodies and a specifically timed decryption to dupe Charlie...but again that doesn't need Sizemore's juice so it can't be the plan (it may still however be involved)..

    One such theory that stacks up is to have Spacerock seem destroyed and deserted apart from the bodies as a juicy target for whatever forces are nearby but load it with dirtamancy traps and have wanda mass decrypt at the opportune moment.
    Any others need to be able to fulfill the requirements of having to hold off decryption and have Sizemore use up juice...and also be 'genius'


    Like I said in my post on the last page, Haggar troops are still in the region, they were not in the garrison, and they were not seen retreating with the rest of the Jetstone forces out of the city. Parson knew about them from their attack on Ansom, and they are currently unaccounted for, most likely just hanging out outside the city. Bury the bodies in shallow graves, wait for Haggar to come into the city, spring a Wrequiem, and bring down the 100 remaining Haggar troops in an ambush and add them to the army instead of letting them run off with Jetstone's remaining forces. And thus, Stanley gets a few platoons of rockers to headbang to his phat licks.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 111
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:29 am 
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    Werebiscuit wrote:
    Ergo...the genius plan must involve using the bodies, somehow, as that is the only reason I can see for not decrypting, now.


    A different reason for not decrypting is, Parson's plan involves something that requires complete absence of Gobwin Knob units in the city.

    Like, for instance, starting a new side.

    http://www.erfworld.com/2013/04/book-2- ... -page-108/

    Quote:
    LordHamster: I'll claim the capital and start a new side, then.

    CharlsNChrg: So you are the only Gobwin Knob unit in Spacerock right now?

    LordHamster: ...no.

    CharlsNChrg: If you go barbarian to found a side, then you can't claim the capital site if there are units of another side there.

    CharlsNChrg: Like, say, Gobwin Knob's decrypted troops and red dwagons.

    LordHamster: I know, shut up.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 111
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:12 am 
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    arbo wrote:
    Werebiscuit wrote:
    Ergo...the genius plan must involve using the bodies, somehow, as that is the only reason I can see for not decrypting, now.


    A different reason for not decrypting is, Parson's plan involves something that requires complete absence of Gobwin Knob units in the city.

    Like, for instance, starting a new side.

    http://www.erfworld.com/2013/04/book-2- ... -page-108/

    Quote:
    LordHamster: I'll claim the capital and start a new side, then.

    CharlsNChrg: So you are the only Gobwin Knob unit in Spacerock right now?

    LordHamster: ...no.

    CharlsNChrg: If you go barbarian to found a side, then you can't claim the capital site if there are units of another side there.

    CharlsNChrg: Like, say, Gobwin Knob's decrypted troops and red dwagons.

    LordHamster: I know, shut up.


    Okay.... a possible explanation for the need to delay decryption... but how does it require Sizemore's juice ?

    Werebiscuit wrote:
    Any others need to be able to fulfill the requirements of having to hold off decryption and have Sizemore use up juice...and also be 'genius'

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 111
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:29 am 
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    Werebiscuit wrote:
    Okay.... a possible explanation for the need to delay decryption... but how does it require Sizemore's juice ?

    He just repairs the damage done to the City, or makes a scroll so that someone else can rebuild the tower.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 111
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:03 pm 
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    Werebiscuit wrote:
    Okay.... a possible explanation for the need to delay decryption... but how does it require Sizemore's juice ?


    As someone suggested here before, to build a tunnel leading outside the city and evacuate the last remaining GK units... Antium, Bernie and Crispin.

    Or prepare something in the city that Parson will need immediately after... We know almost nothing about the initial conditions of a newly started side.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 111
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:29 pm 
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    arbo wrote:
    A different reason for not decrypting is, Parson's plan involves something that requires complete absence of Gobwin Knob units in the city.

    Like, for instance, starting a new side.

    http://www.erfworld.com/2013/04/book-2- ... -page-108/


    The problem with the Starting a New Side theory is that the same obstacles are there as before - they're off-turn and there's still not a complete absence of other units in the area. They need to do *something* with the corpses before next turn or they forfeit them. No one can move from the city before then except Parson and the casters, and I don't see Parson offing Antium and the other two and the remaining dwagons to fix that problem.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 111
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:33 pm 
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    Werebiscuit wrote:
    Wanda could decrypt the bodies and still use the pliers to decrypt the newly re-assembled dust.

    Re-decrypting the dusted, if that's what his plan is, would be something so phenomenally powerful and beyond what I believe either Sizemore or Wanda would consider possible or feasible that it would absolutely require a link to pull it off. Some of that "4-D" thinking that's beyond anything a single caster can do.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 111
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:40 pm 
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    Nygma wrote:
    The problem with the Starting a New Side theory is that the same obstacles are there as before - they're off-turn and there's still not a complete absence of other units in the area. They need to do *something* with the corpses before next turn or they forfeit them. No one can move from the city before then except Parson and the casters, and I don't see Parson offing Antium and the other two and the remaining dwagons to fix that problem.

    No, but he can order them into the airspace, something he couldn't do before, as they were trapped in the portal chamber by the flames. Also, this time Wanda (the Mistress of the Units in question) is present. They have access to the seat of power too.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 111
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:50 pm 
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    The notion of Sizemore's creation of a firewall has nothing to do with Decryption and everything to do with removing surveillance from GK's new capitol. He's reeling from having his plan nearly unraveled by Charlie's hacking of thinkagrams, eyebooks, and exploiting the Magic Kingdom. His first action as CW of GK@Spacerock wouldn't be to defend against armies, but to defend against spies.

    I hardly think it's genius to have a firewall in mind, but how he manage to make one might be.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 111
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:14 pm 
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    From the sound of things, the summoning spell wouldn't allow Parson to start a new side unless it served Stanley's interests. If he were splitting off the side, or if Gobwin Knob was about to fall, then there are arguments he could use to make a case for it (like getting around decreasing schmucker point, popping lots of casters exploit, redundancy to preserve the side, etc), but underneath present conditions, all he would be able to do is destroy Gobwin Knob and replace it with a side of his own. Something he couldn't justify real well.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 111
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:21 pm 
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    Whispri wrote:
    Nygma wrote:
    The problem with the Starting a New Side theory is that the same obstacles are there as before - they're off-turn and there's still not a complete absence of other units in the area. They need to do *something* with the corpses before next turn or they forfeit them. No one can move from the city before then except Parson and the casters, and I don't see Parson offing Antium and the other two and the remaining dwagons to fix that problem.

    No, but he can order them into the airspace, something he couldn't do before, as they were trapped in the portal chamber by the flames. Also, this time Wanda (the Mistress of the Units in question) is present. They have access to the seat of power too.

    Airspace is still one of the city zones, if I understand correctly. So a GK unit in the airspace would prevent Parson claiming the city. They have access to the seat of power, but since none of them are the Overlord of the side, it doesn't do them much good.

    Wanda might be able to command the decrypted to turn. The "popped again" do have free will, though, according to Ansom, and we do see Antium disregard orders to be silent when Duty compels him. But even if possible it doesn't account for why he needs to know if Sizemore has juice.

    I don't see Parson spinning off his own side yet. The summon spell still compels loyalty to Stanley, and as simply a way to switch the capital back, it seems a waste from a plot point of view. I imagine Rob will end up using the fact that Gobwin Knob's capital is now on the front lines to great advantage (story-wise. Gobwin Knob's benefit-wise, probably not so much.)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 111
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:30 pm 
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    I did not see this suggestion yet during my quick read-through of this thread, but what if Parson wants to try and decrypt the city itself? It might explain why Sizemore is needed.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 111
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:36 pm 
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    Sudden thought: The whole 'Units in the City' thing... suppose they reduced the City to an Outpost. Aren't they just garrison zones with no outer City?

    Yeah, I've just checked the glossary of Book One. A City may be a small Outpost consisting solely of a Garrison. So then, I think Parson wants Sizemore to reduce the size of the City, so that the Gobwin Knob Units can leave the City without having to leave the hex, just by virtue of being outside the Garrison when the deed is done.

    BakaGrappler wrote:
    Like I said in my post on the last page, Haggar troops are still in the region, they were not in the garrison, and they were not seen retreating with the rest of the Jetstone forces out of the city. Parson knew about them from their attack on Ansom, and they are currently unaccounted for, most likely just hanging out outside the city. Bury the bodies in shallow graves, wait for Haggar to come into the city, spring a Wrequiem, and bring down the 100 remaining Haggar troops in an ambush and add them to the army instead of letting them run off with Jetstone's remaining forces. And thus, Stanley gets a few platoons of rockers to headbang to his phat licks.

    Haggar were half a turn's march away from the City at the start of play, they have since marched past it to attack Ansom, who defeated them. They may not have lost half of their soldiers as Charlie asked, but they did lose their Chief Warlord and many others along with him. Also, they haven't been mentioned for a very long time. They're out of this fight at least until the next Turn, which they may not live to see.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 111
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:18 pm 
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    Nygma wrote:
    Werebiscuit wrote:
    Wanda could decrypt the bodies and still use the pliers to decrypt the newly re-assembled dust.

    Re-decrypting the dusted, if that's what his plan is, would be something so phenomenally powerful and beyond what I believe either Sizemore or Wanda would consider possible or feasible that it would absolutely require a link to pull it off. Some of that "4-D" thinking that's beyond anything a single caster can do.


    Very true, but it doesn't require Wanda to delay on decrypting the bodies to be able to pull it off. Since decrypting only requires the pliers which are essentially juiceless.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 111
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:23 pm 
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    Urf wrote:
    The notion of Sizemore's creation of a firewall has nothing to do with Decryption and everything to do with removing surveillance from GK's new capitol. He's reeling from having his plan nearly unraveled by Charlie's hacking of thinkagrams, eyebooks, and exploiting the Magic Kingdom. His first action as CW of GK@Spacerock wouldn't be to defend against armies, but to defend against spies.

    I hardly think it's genius to have a firewall in mind, but how he manage to make one might be.

    Why would it require delaying with the decryption though ? I can see it as part of the genius plan... but it would need something also being done... much like the bracer bluff.

    Maybe both together would fulfill the requirements.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 111
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:32 pm 
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    Trotsky wrote:
    I did not see this suggestion yet during my quick read-through of this thread, but what if Parson wants to try and decrypt the city itself? It might explain why Sizemore is needed.

    What do you mean by decrypt the city? Do you mean some more efficient form of rebuilding it, or do you mean animating it? I doubt the former would work, and the Dollamancer would be a better choice for the latter.

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