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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 12:05 pm 
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I hope I'm not mistaken, and that no one has pointed this out, but Crusher is wearing her formal whites. Priceless.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 12:17 pm 
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    Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 12:25 pm 
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    jah77 wrote:
    Actually, Parson was not paying attention to the bracer when he found out that he leveled. In fact, the bracer's informing Parson that he leveled interrupted Parson's thought process:


    That's not my take on it.

    «But Charlie’s request for a calculation had the weird effect of numbing him up and focusing his mind on this one trivial thing. »

    My take is that the focusing on the calculation made the bracer interact with him.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:15 pm 
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    Time out, like a bossy parent lol.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:39 pm 
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    joosy wrote:
    I find it odd that a predictamancer can get punched against their will but if any other caster could do it, it would be a carnymancer.

    It is possible that predictamancer chose to get punched. Makes it look like other side is bad guy, may help with final desired results.

    They are fighting a propoganda war, having a black eye helps make it look like other side rather than yours is the one destroying the neutrality.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:46 pm 
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    Yeah, the carnymancers following Charlie's orders start a fight? That will look great for Charlie.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 3:26 pm 
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    jah77 wrote:
    Well no, it's not because I don't like the idea, it's because of how the bracer changed numbers. As I said, the bracer first showed one number and then showed another number. This implies that the bracer works, without considering "fate," and then fate somehow "sees" this, decides that fate does not like this, and changes this. But wouldn't something as powerful as fate be able to simply influence the bracer's results from the get-go? Why would fate have to wait until Parson is about to perceive the numbers on the bracers, and then make a decision to change those numbers? That kind of activity is much more suggestive of an actual person, Jack or otherwise, than something as powerful as fate.

    Parson described it as getting railroaded by two different GMs. And the page featuring Jillian, Marie, and Wanda capturing Olive heavily implied that the Titans use Carnymancy to influence events. My guess is that the glitched results are the result of two Carnymancers (Charlie and the Titans) railroading against one another. The Titans are a lot stronger than Charlie, but he can still open up a small chance (otherwise, it would defeat the point of Carnymancy), and thus his power allows the truth to be known, even if only for an instant.

    jah77 wrote:
    Further, none of the descriptions of fate we've seen already provides support for the kind of bracer activity we saw. Fate is described essentially as the outcome of all possible paths that a unit can take. Fate is never described as a force in itself that actually influences that outcome.

    “I mean that it matters to Fate whether I hit Olive or not,” said the Croakamancer. “Fate will borrow Numbers from somewhere. With your permission, I will place the spell on the tower. Then the Predictamancer will cast. Sister Marie will let me know when I am meant to shoot.”

    That sounds an awful lot like Sylvia's Carnymancy charm.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 4:34 pm 
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    Lamech wrote:
    Yeah, the carnymancers following Charlie's orders start a fight? That will look great for Charlie.


    http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -11-20.jpg

    Above is Jojo giving speech allowing Parson through portal to test the Titans. He passed the test, he is still alive. Parson is now going through his own sides portal and Jojo and friends attack. So from PR standpoint can be argued that Jojo by his own logic is fighting will of Titans, especially when Parson survives Jojo's attack.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 4:50 pm 
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    jah77 wrote:
    Further, none of the descriptions of fate we've seen already provides support for the kind of bracer activity we saw. Fate is described essentially as the outcome of all possible paths that a unit can take. Fate is never described as a force in itself that actually influences that outcome.



    Quote:
    “It’s all zeros!” said Marie, sounding upset. “This is not Fate’s plon for Olive Branch. Fate doesn’t want her croaked this way.”

    “Fate can suck a sweaty sausage!” said Jillian, making a pair of fists. What, was the entire game rigged against Faq? Small chances she could deal with, but zero chance was just unfair. Was that how the Titans played, for real? The world was run by cheaters? Everything was all Carnymancy?


    http://www.erfworld.com/2013/03/inner-p ... isode-065/

    Everything was Carnymancy.

    Charlie must be one powerful carny. I wonder if he can out-carny the Titans/Fate.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 5:02 pm 
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    ManaCaster wrote:
    jah77 wrote:
    Well no, it's not because I don't like the idea, it's because of how the bracer changed numbers. As I said, the bracer first showed one number and then showed another number. This implies that the bracer works, without considering "fate," and then fate somehow "sees" this, decides that fate does not like this, and changes this. But wouldn't something as powerful as fate be able to simply influence the bracer's results from the get-go? Why would fate have to wait until Parson is about to perceive the numbers on the bracers, and then make a decision to change those numbers? That kind of activity is much more suggestive of an actual person, Jack or otherwise, than something as powerful as fate.

    Parson described it as getting railroaded by two different GMs. And the page featuring Jillian, Marie, and Wanda capturing Olive heavily implied that the Titans use Carnymancy to influence events. My guess is that the glitched results are the result of two Carnymancers (Charlie and the Titans) railroading against one another. The Titans are a lot stronger than Charlie, but he can still open up a small chance (otherwise, it would defeat the point of Carnymancy), and thus his power allows the truth to be known, even if only for an instant.


    What you say sounds plausible, but I'm still not sure that I buy this. Are you saying that Charlie is actively casting carnymancy on Parson's bracer to cause it to display the "truth"? I think that sounds like a stretch. Carnymancy is the ability to alter the rules of Erfworld, not to show the "truth." Further, are you saying that Fate casts carnymancy to cause fate to do what fate wants to do? I'm not sure that we have seen that explanation anywhere in canon. I know that this update says something about the whole world being run by Carnymancy, but I think it would be plausible to read this as metaphor, rather than in a literal sense. Based on everything we've seen, I would think that Carnymancy is mainly about altering game rules. I am less certain about what Carnymancy's interaction would be with respect to Fate.

    Also, I don't understand how Charlie could be affecting Parson's bracer with Carnymancy. Charlie's unmatched, long distance skill is in thinkamancy, through the arkendish, not Carnymancy. So how would Charlie be affecting Parson's bracer?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 5:19 pm 
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    dwp222 wrote:
    Also, guessing that putting out an Inferno will level Sizemore!


    I dunno about level, but I think he'll make master class. It's a very different kind of work than he's done before.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 5:38 pm 
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    spriteless wrote:
    I love Janis right now. I am so used to scary hippiemancers from book zero, it's nice to see someone so gentle.



    I think we're about to see just how scary Janis can be. :D

    She apparently has some form of leadership, even if it's not the kind that gives bonuses in Erfworld's mechanics.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 5:45 pm 
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    Berserkas wrote:
    Charlie must be one powerful carny. I wonder if he can out-carny the Titans/Fate.


    Charlie can't, but Parson can and will --> There, I said it :mrgreen:

    jah77 wrote:
    Also, I don't understand how Charlie could be affecting Parson's bracer with Carnymancy. Charlie's unmatched, long distance skill is in thinkamancy, through the arkendish, not Carnymancy. So how would Charlie be affecting Parson's bracer?


    Remember that we are already assuming that the Kingworld spell was Charlie (Carnymancer) linked with Vanna (Turnamancer) through the Arkendish, so I can't see why Charlie could be linked with the Arkendish to form a two caster link to do what you claim. I believe he would still need to be linked to a caster in the same hex as Parson* to be able to cast something that affects that hex, but all these are assumptions from my part and will probably be proven wrong.


    * Theories about Jack being still alive and in a tri-link with Charlie through the Arkendish begin in 3, 2, 1...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 5:45 pm 
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    jah77 wrote:
    What you say sounds plausible, but I'm still not sure that I buy this. Are you saying that Charlie is actively casting carnymancy on Parson's bracer to cause it to display the "truth"? I think that sounds like a stretch. Carnymancy is the ability to alter the rules of Erfworld, not to show the "truth." Further, are you saying that Fate casts carnymancy to cause fate to do what fate wants to do? I'm not sure that we have seen that explanation anywhere in canon. I know that this update says something about the whole world being run by Carnymancy, but I think it would be plausible to read this as metaphor, rather than in a literal sense. Based on everything we've seen, I would think that Carnymancy is mainly about altering game rules. I am less certain about what Carnymancy's interaction would be with respect to Fate.

    Also, I don't understand how Charlie could be affecting Parson's bracer with Carnymancy. Charlie's unmatched, long distance skill is in thinkamancy, through the arkendish, not Carnymancy. So how would Charlie be affecting Parson's bracer?

    No, I don't think Charlie was actively casting Carnymancy on Parson's bracer. I think he just casted some generic spell designed to look for ways to push Parson out of Erfworld. It might have even been a property of the scroll.

    Remember that Jojo didn't need to be present to save Sylvia. The spell automatically found ways to save her by itself.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 6:01 pm 
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    Not Me wrote:
    Remember that we are already assuming that the Kingworld spell was Charlie (Carnymancer) linked with Vanna (Turnamancer) through the Arkendish


    I just realized that this action was probably Charlie learning from Parson's "lateral thinking" in terms of caster links. I.e., Parson came up with the idea to link a croakamancer to a dirtamancer to uncroak a volcano -- something qualitatively different from what either of the two disciplines alone could have done. Charlie connected Carnymancy with Turnamancy to mess with the turn rules and end a side's turn -- again, something qualitatively different from what either of the two disciplines could have done alone.

    We don't have too many examples of caster links and what they can do before Parson's volcano uncroaking, but Stanley's caster link seemed to be simple additive combination of each of the disciplines involved -- i.e., one caster used lookamancy to find stuff and feed that information to Jack, who used foolamancy to display the info. Nothing qualitatively different there.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 7:19 pm 
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    Earlier in the latest text update we saw that the bracer's results are not instantaneous, and that it displays data as it computes. It is not that 98% was the final number that got changed to 0%, it's that 98% was the number until the bracer lastly figured fate into the equation. The bracer is working the same as it always has, no Foolamancy involved.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 7:55 pm 
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    Lipkin wrote:
    Earlier in the latest text update we saw that the bracer's results are not instantaneous, and that it displays data as it computes. It is not that 98% was the final number that got changed to 0%, it's that 98% was the number until the bracer lastly figured fate into the equation. The bracer is working the same as it always has, no Foolamancy involved.


    I agree this sounds more plausible than some sort of active fate. However, we've also seen that the bracer requires information in order to make certain calculations, and that the bracer is not necessarily "all-knowing." The text updates with the bracer making calculations shows that the bracer requires Parson to specify certain conditions, and we've also seen that the bracer requires information from Parson, i.e., when Wanda is talking to Parson about battle plans in the initial stages of the invasion of Spacerock.

    On the other hand, the information required by the bracer may simply be constraints on the question that Parson is asking the bracer, and the bracer may actually have Predictamancy capabilities, which of course could take fate into account.

    I like your explanation better than the "active fate" or "Titans vs. Charlie" explanations, but I still want Jack to be alive. :)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 8:43 pm 
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    jah77 wrote:
    I like your explanation better than the "active fate" or "Titans vs. Charlie" explanations, but I still want Jack to be alive. :)

    That's a lost cause at this point. Try to focus on Jack becoming alive again, preferably without decryption.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 9:11 pm 
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    Does anyone want to see Antium and his two soldiers survive? That guy with the brunt face went through a lot and I feel he deserves to live. Also, it figures Janis would stop the conflict in the magic kingdom. How come I didn't think of that? She hates conflict.

    I figure the new page is already planned and started, so I doubt anything will be changed from our comments, but I feel that Antium especially can be a very workable character. I believe that at least he should survive to tell Tramennis to back down.

    By the way, who else thinks that Jack's body may now be too damaged to be resurrected? I have this feeling Balder planned it so that Jack's death would seem meaningless and irreversible in order to give it more meaning and, therefore, had the fire there to destroy he body. Alternatively, Jack is resurrected but the process changes him so much that everyone is creeped out (after that, I would say there's a 50% chance that Jack would be faking the change).

    There's my three Jack theories.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 110
     Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 9:21 pm 
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    (A)

    We haven't heard of Jillian in a long time. But she is too important a character. This book wouldn't just end without her playing a huge role.

    (B)

    We know King Saline IV made Stanley, his beloved Chief Warlord, heir designate. That's got to be one of Stanley's most treasured memories. Also, on a recent text update, there was a gratuitous mention of Stanley willing to someday "groom" Parson to start his own side... More often than not, when Rob gratuitously mentions something it becomes important later.

    Therefore...

    Law of Conservation of Detail meets Death By Character Development.

    Faq's air force, who were hiding close to Gobwin Knob as instructed by Charlie, invade the city right after it ceases to be a capital.

    While battle ensues, Jillian goes straight to Stanley and croaks him at last.

    Stanley, just before being croaked, on a last desperate gesture makes Parson, his Chief Warlord, heir designate.

    Parson crosses the portal to Spacerock, goes barbarian, sits atop the throne and starts his own side.

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