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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 109
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:48 pm 
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That was an unexpected moment of awesome from Stanley.

Also, I didn't notice until now that Zhopa has Goblin Knob livery on his chest hair, neat. That and a minor art mistake where Zhopa is missing his red bracer in panel 5.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 109
     Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:55 pm 
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    hmm, given that stanley doesn't know (a lot) about our world, i wonder if it wouldn't have been better to use "mazel tov!" as a sound effect.

    also, the emblem on zhopa's chest hair. :lol:


    Last edited by Finn MacCool on Mon May 13, 2013 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 109
     Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:56 pm 
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    My bit of Predictamancy is that Jeftichew's little trick "for when everybody's heading for the exits" might come into play here. I'm Predicting it will involve swapping the Portals, so someone ends up going through the wrong one.

    http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/?px=%2F2012-09-27.jpg

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 109
     Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:51 pm 
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    Stanley is being awesome right there

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 109
     Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 7:13 pm 
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    bladestorm wrote:
    YRM_DM wrote:
    But it would be cool if Parson cast the scroll and it backfired on Charlie and gave Parson the Arken Shoes. Maybe they'd attune to Parson as Nikes or something.

    Then he'd have unlimited move, which would give him a way of bypassing Charlie's thinkagram hacks. He could just relay orders himself.

    It would be even more awesome if Sizemore attuned to the shoes. He could fortify every city GK had, and still be home before end of turn. He might even be able to spend a couple more evenings with a certain Date-a-mancer on a more regular basis. Plus other cool stuff like setting traps on every hex between two cities, mining an entire mountain range for gems in one turn, traveling to far-off hexes to explore their terrain types, popping crap golems in every city, and maybe even making a multi-hex golem from a huge chunk of Erf, kinda like animating the entire Minty Mountains. Olive and her little tree -to - tannebaum spell could suck it after a display of power like that.


    Haha I totally wish to see Sizemore attuned to shoes now :D

    Anyway, to those who believe Charlie has a contingency for this:

    Why the hell must he have a contingency for every possible outcome? Well, that is certainly the case until now, but dunno, I wish to believe that Rob is a better write than Kubo Tite and Charlie becoming Aizen is something I truly do not wish for because it will certainly ruin my enjoyment of the comic.

    Charlie has the power to prevent Hamster from contacting Tool to change capital and he used that power. He doesn't want Hamster to talk to Tool, which means he sees the capital-change as a way out. From what Charlie knows about Tool, it is very likely that he is unable to anticipate Tool's character development.

    Also, GK losing Sizemore etc. because they entered wrong portal would be EXTREMELY LAME. I'm pretty sure casters with such experience would know what happens to portals in MK when capitals change.

    Capital-change would actually save Hamster's ass, but it doesn't change the fact that GK lost a lot this turn, and most of the responsibility lies with Hamster. Sure, he prevented a complete wipe-out but he could have done better. He knows it too, Tool too, probably. Maybe Tool putting his capital and, indirectly, his own life at risk to save Hamster will change what he thinks of Tool.

    Maybe he'll be motivated like "boop dis boop, imma repay Tool, avenge Jack, pwn Charlie, boop da boop out of all booping erf and call GG" :P

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    I was hoping we could debate the meaning of "agent" in the the Declaration of Non-Aggression again. It totally hasn't been argued to death already.

    You know... at this point you boops aren't beating dead horses any more. You're making glue.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 109
     Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 7:31 pm 
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    Kreistor wrote:
    Chit Rule Railroad wrote:
    We know that Erf has windows that require siege attacks to breach (e.g., the roof of Spacerock's atrium), and the throne room seems like a place that would have strong defenses.


    Arkentools aren't capable of siege?



    Arkenpliers? Never used as siege.
    Arkenshoes? Never used as siege.
    Arkendish? Never used as siege.
    Arkenhammer? Never used as siege.
    The wiki? Never used as siege.

    Unless there is an update where it is mentioned that one of the universal abilities of an Arkentool is that they can be used as siege (god that sounds weird to say now... siege siege siege) I do not think they are capable of it. I don't know why you would assume otherwise (don't intend to sound mean or that I'm hammering it in - I just see on these forums a lot that people think - "oh, because it's never said that X isn't capable of Y, that's enough to believe it's true").

    I think we've reached the "wrapping up" point of this little arc. Stanley might be covered in death-flags right now like Jack was, but I don't think he'll die. I do not think Charlie has masterminded a plot that has contingencies for everything that can happen: He knows that Parson is Fated to fulfil these prophecies (he might not know the details behind Parson's summoning but he's had past experience summoning up a Perfect Warlord before) - it is impossible for Parson to die in the inferno. A lot of people ask "Why does Charlie want Parson to use the scroll and go home so badly if he can just kill him? Seems unnecessarily nice, the scroll must do other things, like kill him on the spot or something." The scroll is carnymancy, "anti-fate magic" - it's the only way to beat Parson - by banishing him from Erfworld, where the rules of Fate will no longer apply to him. That's why Marie, who is normally super-calm and collected, looked terrified when Jojo was ready to cast the spell, because it would destroy all her Predictions of Parson to come.

    But that's just my theory.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 109
     Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 7:47 pm 
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    Finn MacCool wrote:
    also, the emblem on zhopa's chest hair. :lol:


    How in the HELL did I miss that? *facepalm*

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 109
     Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:05 pm 
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    Denar wrote:
    Kreistor wrote:
    Arkentools aren't capable of siege?


    Arkenhammer? Never used as siege.


    It's never been shown in a siege situation without siege units nearby. Doesn't mean it can't.

    Look up its inspiration, Thor's Mjolnir, sometime. Then tell me siege is out of the realm of possibility.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 109
     Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:33 pm 
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    Maybe he could've used the 'Hammer as siege, but I doubt that he could use its combat powers and use it to fly at the same time.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 109
     Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:58 pm 
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    If any of the Arkentools can be used as siege, it'd be the Arkenhammer. No situation has come up where Stanley would have reason to use it as siege weapon.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 109
     Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:05 pm 
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    I thought Zhopa only had the livery on his chest after Stanley promoted him, but apparently he already had it since his debut in the Summer update. However, it didn't show on him in the nearest shots of his chest, so I suppose that's easy to miss

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 109
     Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:13 pm 
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    Kreistor wrote:
    It's never been shown in a siege situation without siege units nearby. Doesn't mean it can't.

    Look up its inspiration, Thor's Mjolnir, sometime. Then tell me siege is out of the realm of possibility.


    He needed a purple. Purples are sonic siege. There was a red or pink closer to him, and they would have been dandy if all he needed were a mount or a lateral push. But he asked for a purple.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 109
     Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:22 pm 
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    WHERES YOUR GOD NOW, CHARLIE?!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 109
     Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:24 pm 
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Year of the Dwagon Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
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    zilfallon wrote:

    Haha I totally wish to see Sizemore attuned to shoes now :D

    Anyway, to those who believe Charlie has a contingency for this:

    Why the hell must he have a contingency for every possible outcome? Well, that is certainly the case until now, but dunno, I wish to believe that Rob is a better write than Kubo Tite and Charlie becoming Aizen is something I truly do not wish for because it will certainly ruin my enjoyment of the comic.

    Charlie has the power to prevent Hamster from contacting Tool to change capital and he used that power. He doesn't want Hamster to talk to Tool, which means he sees the capital-change as a way out. From what Charlie knows about Tool, it is very likely that he is unable to anticipate Tool's character development.

    Also, GK losing Sizemore etc. because they entered wrong portal would be EXTREMELY LAME. I'm pretty sure casters with such experience would know what happens to portals in MK when capitals change.

    Capital-change would actually save Hamster's ass, but it doesn't change the fact that GK lost a lot this turn, and most of the responsibility lies with Hamster. Sure, he prevented a complete wipe-out but he could have done better. He knows it too, Tool too, probably. Maybe Tool putting his capital and, indirectly, his own life at risk to save Hamster will change what he thinks of Tool.

    Maybe he'll be motivated like "boop dis boop, imma repay Tool, avenge Jack, pwn Charlie, boop da boop out of all booping erf and call GG" :P


    I see Charlie is a lot like David Xanatos from Gargoyles. Charlie has a stated that he makes plans that he never ends up loosing. Since the first book he has suffered two defeats. The first was when Parson won at the end of book one the other happening during the summer updates between books when he let it slip that Parson's artifact can predict the future. After both of these incidents happened Charlie takes a decidedly different approach and starts making plans to stop Parson. If Charlie has not made a contingency plan for this he is not going to be the big bad of the story, just the stop gap on a bigger evil. So it seems to be out of charter for him not to have these plans.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 109
     Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:32 pm 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Has collected at least one unit
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    I'm going to hypothesize a bit. The hammer grants Stanley the Flight special, which pretty obviously allows you to move into the Airspace sub-zone, stay there, and move out at your leasure - to an adjacent subzone, or to the Airspace of an adjacent hex, with sufficient move.

    Stanley was in the Dungeon sub-zone, which does not border the Airspace. Thus Flight is negated; in spite of the fact that in our world it doesn't make sense, in Erf terms there is no Airspace in the various rooms and hallways of the Dungeons. Thus Stanley cannot Fly in there, regardless of if there may be enough ceiling height that he would technically have the clearance to do so.

    Once he's outside (panel 7), he can Fly as he wishes. He takes off dramatically with a throw from Zhopa; clearly this is unnecessary, but it's the sort of dramatic flair Stanley is a slave to. He flies up to the throne-room level, but there's no balcony to land on. Sure, that looks like it's a window. But importantly, it's a part of the structure of the Tower, with all the associated bonuses that would convey. A siege attack is required to break the wall (yes, a window, but mechanically a wall), which a purple dwagon provides. Now, there's a valid lateral movement path from the Airspace zone to the adjacent Tower, and Stanley simply moves there - laterally - as any Flying unit might.

    Once inside, he's now in the garrison (Tower subzone), and there's once again no way to Fly inside the room.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 109
     Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:35 pm 
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    Eeeeeeeeeee!!

    Aquillion wrote:
    This would seem to confirm that the hammer can only levitate up-and-down, not fly horizontally, since he needs a purple to send him through the window.
    He needed the purple to break the window, that has nothing to do with the 'hammers ability to move an attuned wielder vertically.

    jkosta wrote:
    Calling it now: Sizemore doesn't have enough juice to put out the inferno.
    The only things we've seen Sizemore do today are the "watch the gap" tunnel. He should have plenty of mana left.

    Moonwolf727 wrote:
    I don't know why but for some reason this page makes me doubt that stanley is actually attuned to the arkenhammer. I mean its totally logical that he is since his personality fits with it so well and he is pretty badass but I get the feeling that either he isn't properly attuned to it or that it has some ability he hasn't worked out how to use, like how he only figured out the walnut->bird bird->walnut thing right at the beginning of book 1.
    It is pretty much canon that Stanly doesn't fully know how to use the 'hammer. For example, he 'learned' the walnuts-to-pigeons ability within the pages of this comic.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 109
     Post Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 12:26 am 
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    zilfallon wrote:
    Haha I totally wish to see Sizemore attuned to shoes now :D

    Anyway, to those who believe Charlie has a contingency for this:

    Why the hell must he have a contingency for every possible outcome? Well, that is certainly the case until now, but dunno, I wish to believe that Rob is a better write than Kubo Tite and Charlie becoming Aizen is something I truly do not wish for because it will certainly ruin my enjoyment of the comic.

    Charlie has the power to prevent Hamster from contacting Tool to change capital and he used that power. He doesn't want Hamster to talk to Tool, which means he sees the capital-change as a way out. From what Charlie knows about Tool, it is very likely that he is unable to anticipate Tool's character development.
    I can see what you mean, but this is still, by far, the most obvious risk to Charlie's plan. I mean, we anticipated it on the forums as soon as the plan to trap Parson became evident. So I think it's reasonable that Charlie would avoid depending on Stanley's reaction one way or the other, if he could; and this is something he has a reasonable way to set up contingencies for, since he has people working for him in the Magic Kingdom.

    It's not like foreseeing "Parson might try to get Stanley to switch capitals to re-open the portal" and setting up a contingency in case he pulls that off is that hard.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 109
     Post Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 12:50 am 
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    Parson has explained in end of Book 1 that being a perfect warlord doesn't mean that all plans work out, but that you are fluid and change and make new plans. Ansom in book 2 explains how you expect things to go wrong and make back up plans/contingencies for when they do and hope that is enough.

    Why should Charlie be that different than Parson and Ansom?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 109
     Post Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 12:57 am 
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    Zeku wrote:
    Its one of those 'you weren't expecting for everything to be resolved rationally' events.

    Parson is still a big loser in all of this. All he's really managed is to lose Jack and learn that Charlie is definitely Bad. If he hadn't appeared in person like a selfish Tool, the victory would have been cleaner overall.


    Yeah, and that pretty much covers the events of the Empire Strikes Back, too. If Luke had done the "smart" thing and stayed and continued his training, it's possible that Leia and the rest would have been able to escape without him. Pretty much the whole middle and last thirds of the movie is Luke screwing up and getting in over his head. It's a necessary part of his character development, his growth from being the pilot who "got lucky" once and destroyed the Death Star into a true hero and full-fledged Jedi.

    Parson charged into the trap, and now he's lost - at a minimum - Jack for his trouble. But he's gained knowledge he didn't have before. And I don't think that Charlie planned that Stanley would actually have a change of heart. That eyebook conversation was pure villainous gloating. At that moment, he thinks he's won. Charlie may be able to throw something at GK after this, but IMO it'll be a reaction, not planned for.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 109
     Post Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 1:16 am 
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    drachefly wrote:
    Kreistor wrote:
    It's never been shown in a siege situation without siege units nearby. Doesn't mean it can't.

    Look up its inspiration, Thor's Mjolnir, sometime. Then tell me siege is out of the realm of possibility.


    He needed a purple. Purples are sonic siege. There was a red or pink closer to him, and they would have been dandy if all he needed were a mount or a lateral push. But he asked for a purple.


    And even with the window gone, he's still holding himself up by Hammer. I know you seem to think there's the possibility of lateral mobility, but I have no idea where that belief comes from.

    Since he couldn't get to the window, and had to hold himself up with the hammer, he couldn't swing it at the window without simply falling. So no conclusion can be drawn.

    Oh, and BTW:

    Book 2, Page 44 wrote:
    That filled him with all kinds of weird feelings. Decrypted dwagons. So would they respond to the 'pliers or the 'hammer? Would they love him or Wanda? He used the Arkenhammer to levitate back into his chair, then kept holding onto it. He didn't like the idea of dwagons that felt the same way about Wanda as they did about him. No way.


    It levitates. That's up and down only, if you were unaware. It hangs him in mid-air, with no lateral movement suggested. Trying to swing the Hammer would disable the levitation and lose his concept of footing. Even if it could do both at the same time, it would be like swinging the Hammer in orbit: he'd have no footing to transfer the energy into and stabalize his position, so would just push himself away from the window, no matter how hard he swung.

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