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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:19 pm 
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S: Parson burnt to death in Jetstone when it was consumed in an Inferno.

A: There was an Inferno at Jetstone.
B: Infernos destroy (non-immune) things in that Hex.
C: Parson is in Jetstone.
D: Parson is not immune to fire.

A+B+C+D --> Parson was destroyed

For Parson to not perish, one of A..D must be false.
negate A: Stop the Inferno. SFAWK, this requires a Dirtamancer. Known Dirtamancers: Sizemore, Komatsu, and Wanda - sort of.
negate B: Remove the destructive power of an Inferno. It's possible that an Inferno does not consume tunnels, for example.
negate C: Parson leaves Jetstone. Several methods have been suggested (many negated by Charlie). Parson needs to move off-turn which limits his options (see below).
negate D: Parson becomes immune to fire. It's possible that an upgrade would allow him to resist the fire and/or evade the trap or Parson could employ the Tauntaun maneuver.

One option I haven't seen involves Parson becoming a prisoner. He could potentially do this by surrendering to the Transylvitian bat in Jetstone and then becoming a fugitive to flee the area on Don King's turn (not sure if Transylvito is still part of the RCC). If you can be "captured" by a side that is not present, there are the High Elves (who are natural Hippiemancers) who might take him in.


Last edited by mroozee on Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:20 pm 
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    Whispri wrote:
    ManaCaster wrote:
    Well, there must be some option left other than the scroll. I mean, Fate doesn't want him to die, and using the scroll would be cheating Fate. But since the scroll is even an option, maybe this incident is meant to force him to figure out his ability as a caster.

    Those Units they were just talking about? They aren't loyal to Stanley, they're loyal to Wanda. So yeah, persuade her to turn and the Portal opens.
    I'm not sure that's true. Some of the Dwagons are uncroaked, but not all of them -- some were forced to the ground when Parson promoted their riders to heavies. Even if it's enough to kill the uncroaked dwagons, he'd have to persuade Wanda first (and contact her to do so, which could be tricky if Charlie has communications totally locked down.) Wanda might be persuadable if he could convince her that he still has a Fate, but that cuts both ways -- she might simply tell him that he'll survive whatever she does, because Fate.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:30 pm 
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    Aquillion wrote:
    Wanda might be persuadable if he could convince her that he still has a Fate, but that cuts both ways -- she might simply tell him that he'll survive whatever she does, because Fate.

    I agree that this probably won't be the way this is solved, but if it looks obvious to her that this is the path Fate wants, she'd do it. She once said something along the line of "Our destination is inevitable, but our path to it is not. Our choices do matter".

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:51 pm 
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    mroozee wrote:

    One option I haven't seen involves Parson becoming a prisoner. He could potentially do this by surrendering to the Transylvitian bat in Jetstone and then becoming a fugitive to flee the area on Don King's turn (not sure if Transylvito is still part of the RCC). If you can be "captured" by a side that is not present, there are the High Elves (who are natural Hippiemancers) who might take him in.

    I was thinking something like this, but not quite. He needs to be taken prisoner by a Jetstone unit, because fugitives move on their captors turns. Parson is taken captive by Jetstone, he gets move again. Antium could turn back to Jetstone, and it's possible this plan could work.

    But I don't think it will go down like that. I think Parson will use the scroll, just as Stanley moves capitol and Sizemore and Wanda come through the portal. Parson goes poof, end book.

    Maggie will know her communications have been cut, and use the GMTTA to contact Charlie, and convince him to move capitol. But it will be too late. Parson will be gone, but Wanda will be able to decrypt Ace and Jack.


    Also, on the subject of Charlie and whether he is of Erf or not, I think there is a very obvious explanation for his knowledge of 1337 Speak. The Arkendish is a satellite dish. Is it so strange to think he gets cable and internet?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:56 pm 
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    Quote:
    I was thinking something like this, but not quite. He needs to be taken prisoner by a Jetstone unit, because fugitives move on their captors turns.


    That's what made me think about Transylvito. If multiple sides ally, they take turns simultaneously. Parson needs to surrender to Jetstone or a Jetstone ally. Since there are no Jetstone units left in the city, that cuts down his options to basically the bat from Transylvito (assuming Transylvito and Jetstone are currently allied).

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:02 pm 
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    mroozee wrote:
    Quote:
    I was thinking something like this, but not quite. He needs to be taken prisoner by a Jetstone unit, because fugitives move on their captors turns.


    That's what made me think about Transylvito. If multiple sides ally, they take turns simultaneously. Parson needs to surrender to Jetstone or a Jetstone ally. Since there are no Jetstone units left in the city, that cuts down his options to basically the bat from Transylvito (assuming Transylvito and Jetstone are currently allied).

    The bat is way out of reach, and regaining move wouldn't help at this point. It looks like they've been cornered in the portal room.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:03 pm 
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    What I'm wondering is this:

    It was established earlier that units have a Loyalty that binds them to their side's ruler, yes? The higher the Loyalty, the less the odds of defecting/treachery.
    Now, it's established that Wanda's units act Loyal towards Wanda rather than the side.

    Parson is in a capital site with only Wanda's Decrypted infantry and dwagons. There's no 'living' units there, as Jack already bit the bullet.

    Would it be possible for Parson to still start a new side in spite of the presence of the Decrypted, as they are Wanda's units, not Gobwin Knob's?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:05 pm 
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    Wii wrote:
    What I'm wondering is this:

    It was established earlier that units have a Loyalty that binds them to their side's ruler, yes? The higher the Loyalty, the less the odds of defecting/treachery.
    Now, it's established that Wanda's units act Loyal towards Wanda rather than the side.

    Parson is in a capital site with only Wanda's Decrypted infantry and dwagons. There's no 'living' units there, as Jack already bit the bullet.

    Would it be possible for Parson to still start a new side in spite of the presence of the Decrypted, as they are Wanda's units, not Gobwin Knob's?

    Wanda is still a GK unit, despite her low loyalty stat, and can't go Barbarian without a capitol site to claim. As she is stranded in the MK, Wanda will not be spinning off.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:07 pm 
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    Sylvia burnt up in a fire, and ten turns later she woke up in a new life. No reason why Charlie couldn't do the same thing with Parson.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:09 pm 
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    bladestorm wrote:
    Sylvia burnt up in a fire, and ten turns later she woke up in a new life. No reason why Charlie couldn't do the same thing with Parson.

    Fire doesn't mean inferno. There was a body to work magic on in that case, whereas inferno leaves only ash. At least that's how I took it.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:33 pm 
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Has collected at least one unit
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    balder wrote:
    http://www.erfworld.com/2013/04/book-2-%e2%80%93-page-108/ is up. And I just want to comment that this page was written months ago and was not changed in response to anything said in Reactions. :lol:


    Hell, I thought that was the case with all of these things.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:36 pm 
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    - The scroll could still be a death trap. If Parson dies in a fire created by his own side... who gets his XP? Maybe no one. But what if Charlie kills Parson with the scroll? That's probably a healthy experience boost.

    - In a contradictory argument though... does Parson "own" the scroll now? Could he sell it?

    - It would be interesting if Parson used the scroll and he and his stack were teleported back to Earth/stupidworld. Would be interesting to see his band of merry men (and Antium) in a real world situation while he tries to make his way back.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:37 pm 
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    Lipkin wrote:
    bladestorm wrote:
    Sylvia burnt up in a fire, and ten turns later she woke up in a new life. No reason why Charlie couldn't do the same thing with Parson.

    Fire doesn't mean inferno. There was a body to work magic on in that case, whereas inferno leaves only ash. At least that's how I took it.


    In the update on the inferno, GK let all of the Unaroyal units die in the inferno and then rode in and decrypted them so I believe and inferno does not reduce everything to ash.
    Not that I agree with Parson being revived by Charlie theory.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:38 pm 
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    So if Parson's a Hippiemancer, maybe he can cast a spell to "get small, man" ala Steve Martin? He could ride a Dwagon is he got small man.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:41 pm 
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    What about disbanding the other units, then going barbarian?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:46 pm 
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    Think my post was eaten.

    I was just wondering if Parson would lose all his Erf gear upon using the scroll and being sent to Stupidworld (assuming that's what it does). It might be interesting if he had the Eyebook in Stupidworld, but could only use it to contact Charlie.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:47 pm 
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    joosy wrote:
    Lipkin wrote:
    bladestorm wrote:
    Sylvia burnt up in a fire, and ten turns later she woke up in a new life. No reason why Charlie couldn't do the same thing with Parson.

    Fire doesn't mean inferno. There was a body to work magic on in that case, whereas inferno leaves only ash. At least that's how I took it.


    In the update on the inferno, GK let all of the Unaroyal units die in the inferno and then rode in and decrypted them so I believe and inferno does not reduce everything to ash.
    Not that I agree with Parson being revived by Charlie theory.

    I stand corrected.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:49 pm 
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    On another note.. I have been thinking about the mechanics of the portals.
    In one cutaway we see some sort of mechanism under the soil.
    Are there mechanisms available for every potential city site or just for every potential side (since each side can only have one MK Portal)

    When a side changes capitols does the portal disappear and re-appear somewhere else in the Magic Kingdom? Or is there no change from the viewpoint in the Magic Kingdom?

    I would like to imagine that there is a portal mechanism for each capitol site not each side as sides can be eliminated and started but capitol sites remain capitol sites. I am not sure how spontaneous barbarian cities fits in - the assumption being that barbarian cities appear in the wild and can be made into capitol sites if conquered.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:22 pm 
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    If Wanda could cast whatever dirtamancy spell is necessary, and If Parson can cast, then Parson could maybe cast the dirtamancy spell too. Since it was said somewhere every caster has some ability to cast out of specialty.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 108
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:56 pm 
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    Finwe wrote:
    It still seems to me like there should be some way to exploit the red dwagons' fire immunity to survive the inferno. It could just be as simple as finding a relatively clear or already burnt-out part of the city, and having the dwagons encircle the survivors to protect them from the flames.
    I doubt that would work. Remember, some rules in Erfworld are just that, rules -- like laws of physics. See the falling rules for an example; if you fall, you have a 1/3 chance of being croaked. Doesn't matter how far you fell, doesn't matter what you land on, that's how it works.

    Similarly, I suspect that while this stage of the inferno is exciting, if it isn't dealt with there's an eventual "everything in the hex not immune to fire instantly dies, automatically, regardless of other considerations" step at the end. We've been told that an inferno = everything not immune to fire dies; I think it's best to just accept that as an automatic rule and go from there.

    (A weirdomancer could probably save Parson by giving him the fire immunity special, since it's been implied that they can give / remove specials -- at least, it was mentioned that they can remove flying. Unfortunately, we've never even seen one.)

    There's one rules quirk that's been mentioned previously and hasn't played a role yet that I can recall: Time in Erfworld is subjective. I don't see how that could help Parson in this case, though.


    Last edited by Aquillion on Wed May 01, 2013 7:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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