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 Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:40 pm 
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Vreejack wrote:
There were people arguing that Charlie is not a carneymancer? I thought that one was completely closed except for the actual, literal confirmation. Did anyone think that the Wizard of Oz was going to be a thinkamancer? The odds would have to have been 100:1


I bet against it on the notion that he wasn't any sort of caster at all, just a tricky sort of fellow - just like the Wizard of Oz.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:49 pm 
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    Well, that's interesting. This makes me think even more that Charlie never wanted Parson alive, only dead. I'm still somewhat surprised he doesn't have a chief warlord locked in an oubliette buried somewhere for the bonus, but oh well. Carnymancer was one of the more likely probabilities for Charlie, and now that we know that's the correct one we know some things are more likely, such as that being a likely thing for him to get the other carnies to try to stop parson (and he's likely the leader of the carnamancers if they have one). He was almost surely in that turnamancy link, showing that he can do such things without too much risk at least. He's even more likely to have something to do with the lack of natural allies in the area (fixing the game). And more speculation is available, such as do the carnamancers actually know who he is, does he live in Charle'scom, the MK, or somewhere else now has more chance to be in the MK, and the possibility of carnimancers being natural game breakers like Parson has some more support now, since Charlie is a definate example.

    I'll guess that the arkenshoes do let you take your stack with you, in order to make everything more like the Wizard of Oz.

    Keldaria wrote:
    we know parsons a hippiemancer but we can now draw some stronger ties between him and dame branch and the kind of trouble he might cause in the future for the world (like false parlays like we've already seen him use for instance).


    No we don't.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:50 pm 
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    Keldaria wrote:
    perhaps charlie moved capitals because the dish literally couldn't be moved? I mean its a satellite dish, its not like you can go walking around with them and it still be useful.

    Items in Erfworld, the Arkenpliers for example, can be resized to fit the situation.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:52 pm 
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    Okay, so apparently Charlie spawned a lot of offspring. Olive stands accused of:

    10 counts of commander-level fratricide. guessing that means she ordered ten of her siblings disbanded and attempted more. Maybe that means other spellcasters rather than actual siblings. Or maybe commander-level describes the victim's status, meaning she has killed off ten of her siblings who were in a commander position.

    Patricide. Trying to kill her own father.

    Hericide? Killing the heir to the throne?

    Maybe she was very low on the list of heirs, and 'promoted' herself by eliminating the competition...

    11 rulers and at least 200 warlords.... that is a lot f xp.

    And I have to wonder what rates Charlescomm was charging Haffaton for services. Family discount, or extra steep?

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:33 pm 
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    And now to go ALLLLLLllllll the way back to the beginning and re-read everything with full knowledge that Charlie is a carny and see how this revelation changes things.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:38 pm 
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    Thinking the name "Charlie Branch", I had to force myself to remember that it was actually "Charlie Bucket". But I expect that to get played at some point.

    How, with even one city, can Faq afford all these Castors? Shouldn't they have lost everything? No purse, no treasury?

    If Judy was a Stupidworlder, shouldn't she have been noticeably larger then everyone else? Not Parson-sized, but still a good head and shoulders above Jillian.

    Not sure what the end-game is here. Olive is guilty/off with her head. Olive is not-guilty, then what? Go back to the original "convert to Haffaton" plan? Sue for unenforceable peace turns? I really dislike Loj. He has some major Castor Envy. Could he be a secret Castor? Himself a Hippymancer?

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:44 pm 
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    I really can't figure out the King here. I don't know the motive with which he's pursuing this line of questioning. Is it critical? Pro-Olive? Or is he taking it all in

    fehler wrote:

    If Judy was a Stupidworlder, shouldn't she have been noticeably larger then everyone else? Not Parson-sized, but still a good head and shoulders above Jillian.

    That could be age/change of signamancy right? She's probably shrunk a lot from her warlord days.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:50 pm 
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    I think he's taking it all in. The patricide angle certianly piqued his interest for a variety of personal reasons

    1. It shows Olive as someone low on Loyalty
    2. Even Jillian never plotted against her father, and making Olive seem worse than Jillian would surprise him.
    3. Olive made quite a show of understanding and embracing his philosophy, and I imagine patricide is completely inconsistent with that. This makes Olive a hypocrite, which, to Banhammer, is probably the worst crime imaginable.

    Also, Banhammer is probably worried about attempted patricide by Jillian, so he probably would like to know the details, if only to find out how to avoid the scenario on his own end.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:06 pm 
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    bladestorm wrote:
    10 counts of commander-level fratricide. guessing that means she ordered ten of her siblings disbanded and attempted more.


    I suspect fratricide may take its meaning from the military parlance of 'harming others on your side' instead of civilian usage of killing a sibling.

    If that's the case, I suspect it's referring to ordering casters into dangerous linkups.

    Either way, I doubt disbanding even counts as fratricide.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:35 pm 
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    fehler wrote:
    Not sure what the end-game is here. Olive is guilty/off with her head. Olive is not-guilty, then what? Go back to the original "convert to Haffaton" plan? Sue for unenforceable peace turns?

    My guess is that the proceedings drag on into Faq's turn. (Olive would have to end turn for this to happen.)

    Then we get an attempted escape. (Maybe even a full escape.)

    Of course, even if Banhammer finds her guilty, he may not decide to croak her out right. He could decide to persue options like ransoming her to Charlie or blasting her mind to bits with a hired turnamancer/thinkamancer bi-link and then rebuilding it as being loyal to him.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:00 pm 
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    fehler wrote:
    Thinking the name "Charlie Branch", I had to force myself to remember that it was actually "Charlie Bucket". But I expect that to get played at some point.

    How, with even one city, can Faq afford all these Castors? Shouldn't they have lost everything? No purse, no treasury?

    If Judy was a Stupidworlder, shouldn't she have been noticeably larger then everyone else? Not Parson-sized, but still a good head and shoulders above Jillian.

    Not sure what the end-game is here. Olive is guilty/off with her head. Olive is not-guilty, then what? Go back to the original "convert to Haffaton" plan? Sue for unenforceable peace turns? I really dislike Loj. He has some major Castor Envy. Could he be a secret Castor? Himself a Hippymancer?


    Barbarians have their own money too. I suppose it'd take several turns before they ran out.

    Judy Garland was 13 when she played Dorothy gale, which put her at the same stature as Erfworlders. After arriving, I suppose the signamancy effect of Erfworld stopped her from growing taller

    If Olive is not guilty then she can turn to Faq's side, the same way Banhammer was going to turn to hers. However, Neither Jillian nor Wanda would want to work in the same side as hers.

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:55 pm 
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    davesnothere wrote:
    efBaum --- I finally got that one. :oops:



    Um, well. I'm aware of one wat to take it, referencing a type of "Bomb." Is there another joke here?

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:00 pm 
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    tgriff02 wrote:
    davesnothere wrote:
    efBaum --- I finally got that one. :oops:



    Um, well. I'm aware of one wat to take it, referencing a type of "Bomb." Is there another joke here?

    Who wrote the Wizard of Oz? :)

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:13 pm 
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    kefkakrazy wrote:
    If a "simple" linked Croakamancer and Dirtamancer can create a massive natural-disaster event and cause apocalyptic damage over a multi-hex area, wiping out multiple armies simultaneously, and another set of casters can brew up a spell designed to locate someone using very specific criteria and drag them across dimensions, I have no problem believing that a Turnamancer/Carnymancer link could force-end someone's turn. Almost seems rather mild.

    What other shenanigans might we see with tri-caster links? I'm waiting until we get to see a Dirtamancer/Dollamancer combo do a tri-link, animate a whole city, and drop the Erfworld equivalent of the Transformer Metroplex.


    I think there is a more important issue made here. Charlie used his Carnymancy, linked with Vanna's Turnamancy, normal links require a Thinkamancer to facilitate, but in this case it appears that the Dish alone can do that, That seems to imply to ME that Charlie could use the Dish to create a trimancer link up without a thinkamancer, in effect a 4castor link that is impossible for anyone else.

    Yeah, Name Lips, I had forgottent hat one, lmao. Thanks for the reminder

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:10 pm 
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    I can think of quite a few reasons why a unit may decide to spin-off into their own side if they stumble upon an acceptable site (probably the limiting factor), even with high loyalty, or an overlord may order it, at least one of which was even alluded to in this update:

    • Tactically, when it makes sense to have two allies in the same battlespace taking separate turns, working together against a common enemy (what the Witch sisters did). This can probably be overloard directed, or self directed.
    • When a side passes the point of diminishing returns, an overlord may give a loyal commander permission to spin off on a capital site as an ally.
    • When a commander unit has a massive personality conflict with the current overlord, or maybe some personality trait in general. I can picture a unit like Wanda spinning off because she rationalizes fate wants her to, which trumps what her overlord wants, or some other Croakamancer spinning off because her personality doesn't jive with their Hippiemancer ruler
    • When a unit comes across a capital site way out of range to be protected by the rest of the side (pre-dwagon relay). An overlord may give a warloard his/her blessing to start another side

    And so on...

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:15 pm 
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    joosy wrote:
    More than one person can become attuned to an Arkentool. It sometimes takes several turns before you become attuned to one. Stupidworlders can be attuned to Arkentools which means that there is hope for Parson yet.
    No, every attuned person has been named after a real world company that makes tools, including Bell and Blair, our two newest arrivals.

    Also if Charlie is both a Thinkamancer (with the dish) and a Carnymancer... is he capable of doing quad-links?

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     Post Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:19 pm 
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    This just makes me more and more and more sure that Janis IS Olive.

    Janis is the grand abbey, so theoretically high level.
    Janis is powerful and presumably could be in high demand, but we've never known her to leave the MK- because she's terrified that Jillian will kill her.
    Janis' name invokes a musician, Joplin; Olive was a musician.
    Janis is involved in the conspiracy to kill Charlie- Olive hated him for some reason.
    They are definitely drawn within the realm of signamancy shift.
    Janis is involved with the second SPW spell. Olive was clearly involved in the first- the first thing Judy does is go kill the witch, with Olive's help.
    Janis wants to break the world to bring peace, since she knows that the rules of erfworld demand war. Olive experiences this herself- she generally tries to win out of attrition or deception or absorption rather than violence, but then also, out of necessity, has to disband down to a skeleton crew to make the upkeep work. She can't bring peace to the world without conquering and then disbanding it.

    "She then used them to infiltrate Westeregg and destroy Blair, capturing the Arkendish and returning it to The Wizard, as per their terms of alliance." Olive has always seemed sort of oddly sincere, if obviously psychopathic.

    My working theory is that Charlie sent Judy to go kill the witch, but told Olive, who was at the time pacifist, to go with her and use her power to make it a clean theft. No fighting, but you didn't need to if you could move at will and couldn't be engaged.

    Being manipulated like that to take place in killing infuriates Olive, which is the start of her descent into insanity and eventually her betrayal of Charlie- especially if Charlie was already starting to move towards his mercenary-state, cut-throat, cause chaos to get paid to fix chaos MO.

    Now Charlie has the dish and Olive, and Haffaton has Judy and the shoes. The REALLY interesting question here, is how Olive gets to Haffaton's side, how Judy is put in a position to kill but ultimately spares Charlie, and what happened to Doothis that Judy becomes the overlord of Haffaton. My thought is that Olive invites Judy and Doothis over for chocolate, turns to Haffaton attempting a coup, Doothis orders Judy to kill Charlie, being game for that sort of thing, but Judy doesn't and Charlie kills him, making Judy who happens to be heir the new overlord of Haffaton, over Olive.

    But what doesn't jibe with that is.. why doesn't Judy just take Olive home, then? Why does Charlie just leave with his dish? Maybe Judy was also really fond of Doothis, and so the compromise is, "I won't kill you for killing my ruler, but you better get the hell away before I change my mind." Maybe, maybe, maybe...

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     Post Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:09 am 
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    Quote:
    “Their spell was a success. In fact, Bell of Easteros was croaked on the spot as an immediate effect of the summoning process. The warlord they called to their aid was Judy Gale.”

    Sounds like Bell got a house dropped on her. I wonder if the house is still there?

    I also wonder who really wanted to summon Parson, and how they made the spell? Was it done with knowledge of Charlie's summon spell, or possibly even the same casters? And for that matter, did Charlie make the scroll that Jojo gave to Parson?

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     Post Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:14 am 
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    It's interesting that Haffaton employs Charlie's Archons, even though Olive tried to kill him by betraying him to Judy. Charlie is all about business, but it seems like he'd have a hard time letting something like that slide, even the slide was greased with schmuckers.

    I have to wonder if Faq had some covert assistance.

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     Post Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:30 am 
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    arkerpay wrote:
    Olive tried to kill her own father. I bet Lord Banhammer doesn't like the sound of that.

    Didn't FAQ end up fighting against their own uncroaked ruler at their end? I'll bet two carnyval ride tickets that Jillian ends up being the one who (re-)croaks the zombie-Banhammer.

    wrecan wrote:
    To me, this emphasizes beautifully why Parson has to break Erfworld. It is built on the need for constant bloodshed. Even a successful Side would end up having to disband most of its Units to make ends meet, sacrificing individuals in the name of some amorphous uncaring unfeeling unsentient amoral concept of "Side". The whole system is rigged for failure. Parson's got to break the system.

    Hmm... didn't Parson (or maybe it was one of us speculating about Parson) comment on a potential Harvest / Uncroak combo exploit (Harvest animal units to trigger pop of harvested food, but uncroak before depop of the corpse to get units back) for upkeep exploit? Not that uncroaking isn't an upkeep exploit in itself; doubly so with Ossomer's turning showing the way to dis-entangle the effect from Wanda's domination.

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