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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 106
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:52 pm 
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ManaCaster wrote:
Maybe a Predictamancer told him some of what would happen to manipulate him? Of course, Charlie already knows that the Predictamancers are his enemies, so probably not. Thinkamancy itself however has some limited access to Predictamancy, so maybe the Arkendish amplified his intuition or something.


I can't help but notice the following three facts: (1) the inferno was started by Sylvia, (2) Sylvia was apparently given some weird limited immunity combined with pyromania as a result of something Jojo did to her many turns ago, and (3) there is a direct connection running from Charlie to Jojo to Sylvia. Don't know what it means, but it has to mean something.

Prediction: I'm going with Parson declares himself Overlord of Jetstone and then immediately establishes a treaty with Gobwin Knob. This allows him to maintain two portals, one at GK and one at JS, both of which are essential, IMO.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 106
     Post Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:58 pm 
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    niklinna wrote:
    Parson could be referring to ctrl-Z-ing the Summon Perfect Warlord spell...he does still have the scroll of unknown Carnymancy on his belt. I can't think of anything else that would be an undoing, except razing the city as noted.

    Jack is dead, Ace might be dead and wouldn't currently give him the time of day. As far as Parson is aware, he isn't a caster. So there is no one around to cast that scroll.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 106
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:11 am 
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    It's funny, I didn't even think it was a /question/ that Charlie meant for Parson to be trapped in the inferno condition. They as much as said it here. If the debate is about the fact that nothing was on fire at the time, well... Jetstone went out of it's way to see things get flamey (not that they needed much help, with Sylvia helming the GK units). And let's not forget Charlie has that unconscionable way of knowing everything that's going on. It's not so hard to conceive that he knew Sylvia was going flame happy.

    What I've been wondering for the last twenty pages is what kind of exploit gets him /out/ of it. Sizemore's presence seems like the easy answer, which is why I don't like it (and it would be disappointing to find that units other than rulers can sit on the throne and change capitals). The "new side" theorists are just inhaling too much Spacerock smoke, not only is such a scenario ludicrous, but it would mean that Sizemore was no longer a unit of Parson's side and we already know how he feels about going through portals his side doesn't control. And Overlord Parson wouldn't have much luck back in the MK anyway, he burned that bridge, so to speak. Civil war would erupt the second he stepped through. Besides... I don't see Parson leaving behind that many troops to die.

    So with no Sizemore and Parson not going back to the MK, what's left? Apparently Control-Z is left, but I have /zero/ ideas on what that's alluding to.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 106
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:17 am 
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    The point was made that Charlie could not have been counting on the inferno as it was Sylvia Magicdice who caused that. I have to agree. Clonely does not actually understand what the trap is,but seems to assume that he is to "kill" Parson somehow. That's why he is sacrificing himself, after all, even though the details are a bit sketchy. So what was Charlie's real plan? The portal would snap shut the moment Parson took the keep, so why was it necessary to close it early? And why was it necessary to close it at all?

    I am going to guess that Charlie is planning to attack with an army of his own. If not this turn then next one. By closing the portal early he makes sure that Parson could not flee the moment before the city was taken, which would reasonably have been his plan: fight until only one or two enemies are left, then re-enter the Magic Kingdom before the portal closed. Charlie made sure that was not even an option.

    So what should Parson expect? Haggar is nearby, and if they didn't run all the way home (a big if, and one that depends on just how wily their overlord is) then they could march in the moment the flames go out. Otherwise they might march in next turn: Charlie doesn't want the city, he only wants Parson croaked. Likewise Charlie could fly his own force in next turn. He might even ask Parson how many archons he would need, but I doubt he would want to tip his hand.

    SO. Clearly Parson has already thought of all this and has something entirely different in mind. I can hardly wait to find out.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 106
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:22 am 
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    I also have to wonder...what happened to the prince who was going to pop? Will something weird happen now? Games like this usually simply delete the construction queue on a forced transfer, or maybe convert it into cash, but Parson is about to do something very strange. Jack's croaking and his seeming desire to reverse time make me believe something really strange is about to happen.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 106
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:34 am 
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    A carnymancer-turnamancer-thinkamancer trilink could probably do what I would want to do if I were Parson -- go back in time. Travel back to when he was in the Magic Kingdom, and take the thinkamancers up on their offer instead of charging through the portal.

    But there are no friendly carnymancers or turnamancers.

    But ctrl-Z is definitely the "UNDO" shortcut... how is he planning on doing it?

    I hope it's fiendishly clever! :D

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 106
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:34 am 
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    atalex wrote:
    ManaCaster wrote:
    Prediction: I'm going with Parson declares himself Overlord of Jetstone and then immediately establishes a treaty with Gobwin Knob. This allows him to maintain two portals, one at GK and one at JS, both of which are essential, IMO.


    I see people throwing this line around but is there any precedent for a warlord which broke off from their side just like that? We only know that Royal sides can and often do make new Royal sides, and I can only imagine this happens voluntarily rather then by rebellion. Not to mention this explicitly mentions Royals, nothing about Overlord sides being able to form spinoff sides, voluntarily or not. If anything the gigantic and unwieldy Haffaton seems to be proof against this.

    I'd just like to know where people are getting this idea from? As far as I can tell it is something totally out of the left field.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 106
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:41 am 
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    Hmmmmmm...some interesting points I hadn't considered about what, exactly, Charlie knew.

    My personal opinion is that Charlie has predictamancy pertaining to this battle. How much, I know not, but I am confident he has some.

    My evidence? Jojo. Jojo clearly knew about Parson entering the portal. It's possible that Charlie simply got Jojo set up with the scroll and had him wait for an opportunity (which Charlie would have gotten some advance notice of, through Maggie's thinkamancy order to the armory twoll, if nothing else), but, honestly, I don't think so. It shouldn't have been hard to Predict the inferno, either- it seems pretty obvious that Fate had that in its plan for Sylvia. Or, rather, that it planned to use Sylvia towards that end.

    On the other hand, Charlie seemed to be legitimately trying to stop Parson from even entering the portal, which was, apparently, also Fated. Then again, maybe it was just a stall tactic. Who knows?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 106
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:57 am 
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    erwaro wrote:
    Hmmmmmm...some interesting points I hadn't considered about what, exactly, Charlie knew.

    My personal opinion is that Charlie has predictamancy pertaining to this battle. How much, I know not, but I am confident he has some.

    My evidence? Jojo. Jojo clearly knew about Parson entering the portal. It's possible that Charlie simply got Jojo set up with the scroll and had him wait for an opportunity (which Charlie would have gotten some advance notice of, through Maggie's thinkamancy order to the armory twoll, if nothing else), but, honestly, I don't think so. It shouldn't have been hard to Predict the inferno, either- it seems pretty obvious that Fate had that in its plan for Sylvia. Or, rather, that it planned to use Sylvia towards that end.

    On the other hand, Charlie seemed to be legitimately trying to stop Parson from even entering the portal, which was, apparently, also Fated. Then again, maybe it was just a stall tactic. Who knows?

    Actually, he could have known about Parson entering the portal just by intercepting Gobwin Knob's Thinkagrams. In fact, that was heavily implied.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 106
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:05 am 
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    I've seen bits and pieces of this in other's post, so allow me to summarize an explanation for Charlie's plan as we know it and how events confirm it by answering some questions:

    Why was closing the portal early necessary?
    • Because Charlie didn't want Parson running from whatever he had planned. By the time the plan was activated, Charlie knew that Maggie was in the MK, therefore he could assume she was out of Juice, and that Parson was blind to the tactical situation. Charlie didn't want to risk parson walking in, finding out it was a desperate situation, and turning back around cus it was a lost cause.
    How does Slately "know" the plan involved fire?
    • He doesn't. We know that he is generally a bit of a gullible idiot, and like most Rulers, pretty clueless about magic and such. But he has done what the plan called for, and here is Parson, in a flaming city doomed to die. It's logical that he would ASSUME fire was in the plan all along, even if that were not the case.
    WAS fire in Charlie's plan all along?
    • It's entirely possible. Jojo pulled something strange to keep Sylvia alive, and it involved a deal. That combined with Charlie's thinkamancy, and we could very well have a complex spell effect in place by which Charlie "triggered" Sylvia like a pawn.
    If not, what IS Charlie's plan?
    • People are assuming that Charlie's plan involves Parson's death...which is silly because you only have Charlie's word on that, which is a weak promise. Charlie never bets on the lame runner, and even better, he finds a way to shoot the lame runner. Charlie may have been planning for Jetstone to lose the entire time, and he was just using them as a pawn to weaken GK for a future confrontation, and to draw Parson away from GK city.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 106
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:13 am 
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    0beron wrote:
    People are assuming that Charlie's plan involves Parson's death...which is silly because you only have Charlie's word on that, which is a weak promise. Charlie never bets on the lame runner, and even better, he finds a way to shoot the lame runner. Charlie may have been planning for Jetstone to lose the entire time, and he was just using them as a pawn to weaken GK for a future confrontation, and to draw Parson away from GK city.

    That was what the archons were wondering, but what else could Charlie want with him? Only pretending to try to kill him isn't exactly a good way to make friends. Most likely, Fate's plans conflict with Charlie's plans and Charlie really wants to get rid of Fate's most important tool.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 106
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:22 am 
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    A couple of points on charlie's planning:

    1: He doesn't have to tell people that he didn't kill parson.

    2: Between changemancy, lookamancy, and more than likely a few other disciplines, Charlie could find ways to hide or obfuscate the fact that parson is still alive.

    3: While parson may have pissed charlie the hell off, it doesn't change the fact that he would be invaluable under charlie's control.

    4: If he pretends to kill parson, but captures him and turns him, he gets to have his cake and eat it too.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 106
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:15 am 
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    Up until he told it to Slately, though, we had no real hint that Charlie wanted to kill Parson. And having him obsessed with it now feels weird.

    One possibility is that Charlie is trying to manipulate Parson into a position where he'll have to do something in particular. He might be trying to get Parson to splinter off into his own faction (though honestly, people speculating on the forum have always been eager to predict that at the drop of a hat), or he might be trying to get Stanley to move the capital to Spacerock. Alternatively, he might offer Parson a deal on the next page.

    One other thing, though. What Charlie isn't interested in seems to be as odd as what he is. Specifically, he hasn't shown any interest in grabbing the Arkenhammer or Arkenpliers so far, even though those really ought to be his primary goal. (He did hint way back at the start of this arc that he was targeting an attuned tool-holder, though.)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 106
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:31 am 
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    Malanthyus wrote:
    A couple of points on charlie's planning:

    4: If he pretends to kill parson, but captures him and turns him, he gets to have his cake and eat it too.


    Parson would actually be the icing on the cake. "Say Parson, that's a mighty fine Mathamancy item you've got there!"

    Aquillion wrote:
    Up until he told it to Slately, though, we had no real hint that Charlie wanted to kill Parson. And having him obsessed with it now feels weird.

    One possibility is that Charlie is trying to manipulate Parson into a position where he'll have to do something in particular. He might be trying to get Parson to splinter off into his own faction (though honestly, people speculating on the forum have always been eager to predict that at the drop of a hat), or he might be trying to get Stanley to move the capital to Spacerock. Alternatively, he might offer Parson a deal on the next page.

    One other thing, though. What Charlie isn't interested in seems to be as odd as what he is. Specifically, he hasn't shown any interest in grabbing the Arkenhammer or Arkenpliers so far, even though those really ought to be his primary goal. (He did hint way back at the start of this arc that he was targeting an attuned tool-holder, though.)


    He seemed pretty interested in them back in Book 1. Parson certainly seemed to think so.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 106
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:45 am 
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    I'd just like to point out that the last panel comes with a bit of foreshadowing. When Parson says Control-Z he is looking directly at the Stanley portrait on the wall. So that seems to support two popular theories:
    1. Parson will ask Stanely to change the capital (which would put it at risk of being captured) or
    2. Parson will break off and start a new side which means that the portrait will change to one of Parson.

    In any case, my opinion is that the undo option is not to revert any recent actions altogether, but to get SpaceRock to be a capital again (so Sizemore can come in and stop the inferno).

    Disclaimer: It could be that it was just used to show that the fire is spreading fast and out of control, as the portrait is not on fire on the previous panel. It's actually nowhere near it.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 106
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:28 am 
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    God... DAMN, Parson.

    Wait, what's this about undo? Don't tell me Parson learned retconjuration?



    Edit: Re the fire, and Charlie's timing: Charlie is the ultimate thinkamancer, he could have encouraged Ms. Slash and Burn to start some fires.

    I don't want to blame Charlie for random things, but this time he actually is involved.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 106
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:50 am 
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    Ace's head is resting over his arms in frame 10, while in the first frames the arms were to the side. He moved.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 106
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:23 am 
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    The big question is "Is he in chains?" for Ace.

    As far as Parson goes, what happens if you bring a burning inferno city down to level 1 and then bring it back up to level 5?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 106
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:29 am 
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    Witchalok wrote:
    I'd just like to point out that the last panel comes with a bit of foreshadowing. When Parson says Control-Z he is looking directly at the Stanley portrait on the wall. So that seems to support two popular theories:
    1. Parson will ask Stanely to change the capital (which would put it at risk of being captured) or
    2. Parson will break off and start a new side which means that the portrait will change to one of Parson.

    In any case, my opinion is that the undo option is not to revert any recent actions altogether, but to get SpaceRock to be a capital again (so Sizemore can come in and stop the inferno).

    Disclaimer: It could be that it was just used to show that the fire is spreading fast and out of control, as the portrait is not on fire on the previous panel. It's actually nowhere near it.


    I think you are spot on. Stanley only has three choices that I can think of, agreeing to one of those above, and the third: Letting his perfect warlord croak in a fire. Edit: Since it really comes down to what Stanley will allow.

    If Parson can get Stanley to agree, he can have Wanda and Sizemore join him, and with them he can decrypt Jack and Ace and put out the city.


    But that last point stands, too. Parson always seems to come up with the things we haven't thought of...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 106
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:41 am 
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    Hi everyone!
    First time poster, just to share my thoughts.
    Z is one of the axis to describe position in 3D.
    Control - Z = Control third dimension, go underground, or fly up. You guess what and who i have in mind. It involves moving capital and casters OFC.

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