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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:27 am 
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name lips wrote:
1) It's not really Jack, but some sort of trick to make Parson THINK it's Jack.
The problem with that is... what's the advantage to doing that? Why would he want to fool his own side?

I think the fact that it's anticlimactic is sort of the point. It's a war. People die. Not always in a big heroic way.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:42 am 
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    I still maintain there's some sort of trickery going on. Too many Thinkamancers and Predictamancers and Carnymancers and Titans knows what else involved in the MK. During the standoff in the MK, Jack vanished for a large number of panels. I think he was making covert plans with somebody, probably the people involved in summoning Parson, and the plan is to use his apparent death to spur Parson into action.

    I think he'll be gone for the rest of the story arc, only to come back as a "surprise reveal" at a future critical point in the storyline. I think he's in hiding in the MK, somehow having converted to a barbarian so even Stanley doesn't know he still exists.

    Random possibly unconnected thought: "A trick of some sort" -- I think a thinkamancer-carnymancer-turnamancer link could restore a caster's Juice off-turn. Rule-breaking, simulating something that normally happens when Turns change, etc.

    Story-wise there's still a few things going on unresolved with Jack, namely his history with and attraction to Jillian. Jack and Jill. That should be resolved at some point.

    I also still maintain that Jack wouldn't charge into a battlefield when he had no juice. Not when he had been ordered not to. And not when he is such a huge asset to his Side. His reasons for doing so are so flimsy as to be nonexistent. He has no combat skills, and his leadership is cwap. His ONLY utility is in Foolamancy. So either he found a way to restore his Juice, or he didn't go.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:09 am 
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    Couple things to consider.

    First, it would be the death of my favorite character to get me to register (cute anti-bot thing).

    Second, there's a few things that are shown in the aftermath of the purple dwagon attack that some might not see, due to Jack's (apparent) death.

    Namely, you can also see Ace's body thrown against the rubble. Ace is lower level than Jack, and was already badly injured, so it would be a crime if he survived, as well. Also, the throne room building place thing has been blown completely open to the (rest of?) the garrison, so now all those other dwagons can easily come into the melee... that is, if it hasn't already been one. It looked to me like everyone else in the fight was incapacitated or stunned by the blast, which leaves Parson to just walk around claiming prisoners as he sees fit.

    I think the only way he hasn't won the battle by this point is if Charlie's forces make an appearance now (I think he has at least the one injured Archon nearby, unless he didn't ally with Jetstone, I don't remember).

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:26 am 
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    Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Shiny Red Star Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user posted the comment of the month This user is a part of Erfworld canon! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
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    I don't believe it has been mentioned yet, but I went furiously searching for a clear view of someone who was incapacitated, to see if their eyes also went to X-s. And on Page 49 we sadly see that is not the case. After she "fell" into the Atrium, Wanda was the worst kind of incapacitated we have seen, and even then her yes were just normal and closed.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:47 am 
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    Baah, quit yer fussin. With the pliers running amok death is just a nasty form of cc. I'm bummed about this, but only because I have a predictamancy bet outstanding that Wanda will not decrypt the bugger.

    As for Jack no longer being Jack after decryption, I'd say Ossomer and Ansom both became more interesting with decryption.

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    Last edited by effataigus on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 am, edited 239044 times in total.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:58 am 
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    Zippy the Squirrel wrote:
    I think the only way he hasn't won the battle by this point is if Charlie's forces make an appearance now (I think he has at least the one injured Archon nearby, unless he didn't ally with Jetstone, I don't remember).


    Even if he allied his archon would be out of move until the next day. Parson could always try to take Jack with him to stupidworld and have him revived there. If he indeed has caster-like status he should be able to use the scroll.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:01 am 
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    Clearly I don't post much.

    Had to.

    Just to say

    " :( "

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:02 am 
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    Yes, mayhaps Jack could be resurrected without decrypting. Maybe that's why Wanda is not around. If Wanda were around, she'd be obliged to decrypt Jack fast so as to use him again, whereas with her not around Parson has some small amount of time to try to get Jack better again.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:05 am 
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    Eva wrote:
    Yes, mayhaps Jack could be resurrected without decrypting. Maybe that's why Wanda is not around. If Wanda were around, she'd be obliged to decrypt Jack fast so as to use him again, whereas with her not around Parson has some small amount of time to try to get Jack better again.


    CPR?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:07 am 
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    this feels like its counter to the "units understand orders even if not language" or whatever. he clearly didn't mean charge that far forward and despite his words the dwagon should have known that

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:12 am 
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    It's not a huge surprise that Jack got croaked by that fall. He's already eaten one fall that battle and hasn't had any healing since then. Jack probably decided to charge in at least partly because he's a bit insane from having his mind broken in the tricaster link in book one. Crush them with their statues of their heroes instead of just croaking them with mass dwagons.... That and he has about as much control over that purple as Parson did over Banana.

    Stanley has got to be a bit upset at the loss of his foolamancer right about now.

    Looks like the doll saved the double, unless doubles take a few moments to poof like a decrypted. How'd that doll wind up on top of the rubble while it was falling on it anyway? Looks like Parson will capture the double then. And possible Ace, though he's probably croaked as well. That would be interesting, with Ace being a replacement caster. Again.

    Jesus Parson is strong. Maybe Ace just isn't good at stitching.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:17 am 
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    pseudoboo wrote:
    this feels like its counter to the "units understand orders even if not language" or whatever. he clearly didn't mean charge that far forward and despite his words the dwagon should have known that

    That is weird, but I think it could be explained that blinded units cannot simply use constant, unspoken leader commands to simulate a sense of sight.

    Otherwise, back in the text story, Jillian could have just let Jack lead her stack and just obeyed his commands for where to move and attack, instead of the whole fancy foolamancy-sight deal.

    The dwagon is partly blinded, which means it won't be able to follow commands as well as it normally would. Any command that requires it to use sight will be subject to misinterpretation or a chance of failure. So moving without hitting walls, aiming at specific targets, etc., would be more difficult.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:42 am 
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    cheeseaholic wrote:
    Jesus Parson is strong. Maybe Ace just isn't good at stitching.


    Heavy units are suppose to be strong... i want to see Parson vs Cloth bear golem.

    The golem right bear arm him. and no scratches on him.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:48 am 
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    Remember the old saying, "Deaths come in threes"?

    Archer
    Sylvia
    Jack

    We should be done.

    Now, Jack may not be as dead as we think he is. We still have not seen a caster decrypted. Now it is all the more important for Parson to capture Spacerock this Turn. This will be enough for Stanley to be convinced to move Capital to Spacerock, which allows Wanda to return via the portal. Further, we add Sizemore and rebuild the city this turn. Wanda and Sizemore spell up Tower and prepare for Charlie's Archons which will be coming at dawn tomorrow. And as a side effect? Maybe we get Ace decrypted. I am so looking forward to Parson giving him ideas for Accessories.

    I really can't see any other way for Parson to survive. Even if he won and Jack had lived, Jack would have no juice until GK's Turn after Charlescomm. Parson can't Move to escape the city, and Charlie has more than enough firepower... if he had enough to take a moderately defended Haggar city, he would have no problem with a post-inferno, poorly defended Level 1 city like Spacerock.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:02 pm 
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    Kreistor wrote:
    This will be enough for Stanley to be convinced to move Capital to Spacerock

    I actually do see this happening, but not for the Wanda-decryption reason.

    Parson is going to be very much in need of someone who can stop the inferno.

    Namely, Sizemore.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:12 pm 
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    Frame 14. Parson is standing on stairs and the dwagon and Jack are in the distance. Parson is reaching out to Jack a la "noooooo" but it was drawn as if Parson was grabbing a doll of Jack. I'm not reading anything into this. I'm just wondering why draw the grabbing of doll-like Jack from a distance?

    He is holding a doll in his left hand which is the foreground. It almost looks like he's a kid getting his toys.

    Anybody think anything of this?


    Btw, love the Camel Clutch like WWF/WWE wrestling move in panel 7. Parson would make a great pro wrestler.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:17 pm 
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    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    ~deep breath~

    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! D:

    but I LOVE Jack! Given the fact that it's Jack we're talking about maybe he's not dead.

    If it is Jack and he is dead Wanda still has the pliers so that's not necessarily the end of Jack anyway, b-but ;-; Jack is the best character.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:22 pm 
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    BanzaiJoe wrote:
    Frame 14. Parson is standing on stairs and the dwagon and Jack are in the distance. Parson is reaching out to Jack a la "noooooo" but it was drawn as if Parson was grabbing a doll of Jack. I'm not reading anything into this. I'm just wondering why draw the grabbing of doll-like Jack from a distance?

    He is holding a doll in his left hand which is the foreground. It almost looks like he's a kid getting his toys.

    Anybody think anything of this?


    Btw, love the Camel Clutch like WWF/WWE wrestling move in panel 7. Parson would make a great pro wrestler.

    Pretty sure the idea was to obscure Jack so we wouldn't see the X's in his eyes until the final panel -- for dramatic effect. Parson is approaching Jack to see if he's OK, and doesn't know yet. In the final panel, Parson is close enough to tell, so we also get an unobstructed view.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:24 pm 
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    name lips wrote:
    Parson is going to be very much in need of someone who can stop the inferno.

    Namely, Sizemore.


    I don't think that's so much of a problem as some think. Red dwagons seem to be immune to fire, so while their breath weapons aren't directly helpful, they can get right in and fly water to the source, after city is captured so they can fly again. Indirectly, they could create a controlled burnt out area that stops fires from progressing into safe areas. And I note that the purple (whcih survived the building collapse) did a decent job of putting out flames where it just hit. Collapsing buildings onto fires does smother them.

    Parson doesn't have to save the entire city from flames... just create a safe region the fire can't get to.

    @banzaiJoe: Your frame count seems... off. There are only 13 frames, and 7 is "Boom-oom-oom" with no Parson at all.

    As for the appearance of grabbing Jack, that is probably unintended, but if it is, I'd suggest it equates Jack to another tool that broke in Parson's service. He is now losing close friends to this fight. He'll have a new choice to make at the end of Book 2. Will he continue to abandon erfworld to its fate, or embrace War to create Peace?

    [edit = spelling mistake]

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    Last edited by Kreistor on Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 105
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:25 pm 
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Year of the Dwagon Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
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    Wow, I hate to see Jack go. How will Parson respond as Jack was a good friend and Parson clearly needed his point of view to see a different view. So where will the story go from here?

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