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 Post Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:42 pm 
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On the debt thing, I'm thinking that refers to all the Sides Wanda has laid waste to since then. I was expecting it to be knocking over Haffaton after it had grown to such size, 'cause, well she hasn't exactly been unhelpful for Haffaton, doin' all that conquering. It seems a bit odd, paying off her pop debt by helping her Side. Then again, from the graveyard scenes it seems pretty clear that Wanda hated wiping out those Sides, so that may be enough for it to count as a sacrifice so to speak.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:57 am 
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    effataigus wrote:
    I think there are definitely two different debts at play here. One is for Wanda's crimes against fate... she tried to jump the chasm rather than lowering herself into it. The other I view more as a Fate analog to the conservation of energy. You can set the world aflame, but it is all using energy released and not energy created. We can make a reaction favorable in a closed system either by destroying potential energy (stored in the structures of the various sides) or by creating entropy. Wanda was fated to change the world much more than most units, so the world was going to have to burn or become a much more chaotic place (the world's energy debt for Wanda's fate). Wanda's kinda going for both at the moment.

    I'm confident that there are two different kinds of debt here because I don't see how Delphie would know about the one that started book 0.


    I like the way you put this. On the "Zero calling" debt, I wonder then what events all those numbers in Wanda's Grandiocosmic String actually represented? I suppose they represent her fated Score: You pay the Erf Axis in Shmuckers and it generates you a unit. The Unit's score pretty much represents how good it is at keeping your side alive, which allows you time to generate more Shmuckers from your cities which you then spend on more units. In this way, I'm beginning to see cities as not generating funds, but absorbing them from the Erf and returning them in exchange for units. Its just a visualisation though.

    Anyway, back to the point, if Wanda was fated to raise a score massively above her unit cost, how exactly is the debt repaid? Is she fated to cause that much overwhelming ruin that she prevents other units from hitting their potential scores? The overall balance across the entire Fate Axis would return to 0, but it would still favour her side. If you blame Wanda for what happened to Goodminton (when it was ultimately Tommy who wouldn't agree to her turning), then that's one thing - (she couldn't have attained a huge score by that point, but Goodminton was a small side). Moreover, if she's successful at being the "poison pill" to Haffaton that would make more sense since she's done more work there, and of course we know what happens to FAQ.

    So if you follow the pattern: The higher Wanda's Score while she's in your livery, the more screwed you are.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:02 am 
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    Smoker wrote:
    effataigus wrote:
    I think there are definitely two different debts at play here. One is for Wanda's crimes against fate... she tried to jump the chasm rather than lowering herself into it. The other I view more as a Fate analog to the conservation of energy. You can set the world aflame, but it is all using energy released and not energy created. We can make a reaction favorable in a closed system either by destroying potential energy (stored in the structures of the various sides) or by creating entropy. Wanda was fated to change the world much more than most units, so the world was going to have to burn or become a much more chaotic place (the world's energy debt for Wanda's fate). Wanda's kinda going for both at the moment.

    I'm confident that there are two different kinds of debt here because I don't see how Delphie would know about the one that started book 0.


    I like the way you put this. On the "Zero calling" debt, I wonder then what events all those numbers in Wanda's Grandiocosmic String actually represented? I suppose they represent her fated Score: You pay the Erf Axis in Shmuckers and it generates you a unit. The Unit's score pretty much represents how good it is at keeping your side alive, which allows you time to generate more Shmuckers from your cities which you then spend on more units. In this way, I'm beginning to see cities as not generating funds, but absorbing them from the Erf and returning them in exchange for units. Its just a visualisation though.

    Anyway, back to the point, if Wanda was fated to raise a score massively above her unit cost, how exactly is the debt repaid? Is she fated to cause that much overwhelming ruin that she prevents other units from hitting their potential scores? The overall balance across the entire Fate Axis would return to 0, but it would still favour her side. If you blame Wanda for what happened to Goodminton (when it was ultimately Tommy who wouldn't agree to her turning), then that's one thing - (she couldn't have attained a huge score by that point, but Goodminton was a small side). Moreover, if she's successful at being the "poison pill" to Haffaton that would make more sense since she's done more work there, and of course we know what happens to FAQ.

    So if you follow the pattern: The higher Wanda's Score while she's in your livery, the more screwed you are.

    I'd hate to be Stanley right now.


    Actually, it makes sort of sense. When you have croakamancer, some of your units have zero upkeep (and they decay, but that's beside the point at this moment) while they last. That means you have to constantly invade, which is sort of "tempting fate" during every battle. So, paying for croakamancer once in shmuckers just wouldn't cut it. There has to be another payment for that sort of power. And, what about crap golems? Do they have upkeep? Does any created unit actually have one?

    What is the reason that we have never seen another Dirtamancer or Croakamancer? Maybe they are both sort of gamebreakers...

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:01 pm 
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    Some thoughts about Dame Branch.

    The first is that she's intelligent. She's shown an ability to reason through problems and situations in an impressive way. She's creative and clever. She uses her resources better than any Erfworder before Post Pliers Wanda. (I think Decryption trumps any other 'using resources' claim). The second is that she's cunning. She's not just smart. Her intelligence has an edge to it. I'm not sure I would go so far as to say she's mean, but she's definitely open to all her options. She reminds me a bit of Parson in that way: whatever gets the job done. The third is that she's driven. She's got a motive. There's a larger plan in play here. If she isn't actually in charge of Haffaton, then I'd be sincerely surprised if the Ruler was more than a figurehead. It also occurs to me that she's probably got the military under her thumb too. Haffaton's tactics are very closely aligned with her capabilities. Either she's running things herself, or they have a booping good Warlord working closely with her.

    Also, I don't think Wanda is capable of killing Olive. Aside from the whole love thing, even current era Wanda isn't Level 12. Not to mention that we know for a fact Olive can prevent engagement. Although her spells so far have been songs, we've seen Janis do it in a single word. There's no reason to think that Olive isn't capable of the same thing, especially for a single unit. Which means Wanda would have to catch her by surprise and engage before she could prevent it, then somehow survive against someone much higher level than she is. The only other way I see is to kill her in a way that doesn't require engagement. Like pushing her off a high ledge, or into some deadly terrain feature. Maybe disease or poison, but I don't think we've ever seen anyone sick in Erfworld, and poison is Olive's weapon of choice.

    Dame Branch may be the main antagonist of Book 0, but that doesn't preclude her from showing up in the current era. We'll see.

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     Post Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:38 pm 
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    Sorry for thread uncroaking (#sorrynotsorry)

    But I just stumbled uppon something that was such a good representation of herobuds that I HAD to share it :P

    Image


    edit: fixed typo.


    Last edited by ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ on Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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     Post Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:12 pm 
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    Nice.

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     Post Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:43 pm 
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    How in the heck do you get a name like ...

    Actually, how do you even pronounce that name?

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     Post Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:30 pm 
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    Keybounce wrote:
    How in the heck do you get a name like ...

    Actually, how do you even pronounce that name?


    I never did figure that out...

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     Post Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:23 am 
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    Thecommander236 wrote:
    Keybounce wrote:
    How in the heck do you get a name like ...

    Actually, how do you even pronounce that name?


    I never did figure that out...


    It's a holdover from the old forum, where it was permitted, and thus grandfathered in.

    And the official word of the forumite concerned is that it has no pronunciation. :mrgreen:

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     Post Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:45 am 
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    Keybounce wrote:
    How in the heck do you get a name like ...

    Actually, how do you even pronounce that name?


    I don't pronounce it and neither should anybody...


    It's like in that Stephen King novel "The Tommyknockers" where people start thinking directly with images and concept without words. I'd assume most people thinking of this name would have a kind of mental circumlocution to designate me so no matter what name you have as a placeholder for my User ID, you are correct, as the whole point of it is to dodge language while still being language-looking. So it's a thought experiment open to interpretation design to make every opinion about it true.

    OR

    It's some eldritch symbol that will corrupt your mind and slowly erode your sanity... either or really.

    Dark Shadow wrote:

    It's a holdover from the old forum, where it was permitted, and thus grandfathered in.



    Yes! It came from a time before, when the laws of our universe where more flexible and permited such abomination to come into existence. It is as it has always been and as it will always be. An artifact of mad eons, unchanging, untouched and defiant of a new order of things more complacent to mortal minds. Its very existence a defilement of this order and amocking of proper graphonomy.

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     Post Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:25 am 
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    I never consciously thought about it before, but henceforth I'll think of you as "Fhtägn" :-)

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     Post Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:21 pm 
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    Mirage GSM wrote:
    I never consciously thought about it before, but henceforth I'll think of you as "Fhtägn" :-)


    Like that is any MORE pronounceable...

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     Post Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:56 pm 
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    Whispri wrote:
    On the debt thing, I'm thinking that refers to all the Sides Wanda has laid waste to since then.

    Well, in her note to Jillian, Delphie said that Wanda's debt was paid and it was time for her to move on with her journey. Now, whether that is her popping debt or merely the debt she had to pay for attempting to defy Fate is up for debate.

    ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ wrote:
    It's some eldritch symbol that will corrupt your mind and slowly erode your sanity... either or really.

    And here I thought it was Ogham script for Bhlodllh.

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     Post Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:13 am 
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    Mrtyuh wrote:
    Whispri wrote:
    On the debt thing, I'm thinking that refers to all the Sides Wanda has laid waste to since then.

    Well, in her note to Jillian, Delphie said that Wanda's debt was paid and it was time for her to move on with her journey. Now, whether that is her popping debt or merely the debt she had to pay for attempting to defy Fate is up for debate.
    Given how bumbling and moronic Delphi was, I personally find it highly unlikely that she truly understood Wanda's pop-debt. She clearly comprehended Wanda's significance, but I doubt she understood how deep the rabbit hole really went.

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     Post Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:53 pm 
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    ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ wrote:
    Keybounce wrote:
    How in the heck do you get a name like ...

    Actually, how do you even pronounce that name?


    I don't pronounce it and neither should anybody...


    It's like in that Stephen King novel "The Tommyknockers" where people start thinking directly with images and concept without words. I'd assume most people thinking of this name would have a kind of mental circumlocution to designate me so no matter what name you have as a placeholder for my User ID, you are correct, as the whole point of it is to dodge language while still being language-looking. So it's a thought experiment open to interpretation design to make every opinion about it true.

    OR

    It's some eldritch symbol that will corrupt your mind and slowly erode your sanity... either or really.

    Dark Shadow wrote:

    It's a holdover from the old forum, where it was permitted, and thus grandfathered in.



    Yes! It came from a time before, when the laws of our universe where more flexible and permited such abomination to come into existence. It is as it has always been and as it will always be. An artifact of mad eons, unchanging, untouched and defiant of a new order of things more complacent to mortal minds. Its very existence a defilement of this order and amocking of proper graphonomy.


    I wish the people I know IRL were this entertaining.

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     Post Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:49 pm 
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    Mrtyuh wrote:
    And here I thought it was Ogham script for Bhlodllh.



    Bhlodllh has an eldritch ring to it to be sure! But really it's just misuse of those old boxmaking symbols

    Written in waters wrote:

    I wish the people I know IRL were this entertaining.


    I get that a lot ^^

    It's the pro side of staying weird even when everyone is pressuring you into fitting in the mold, you grow upto be an interesting person with the certainty that all those boring assboop that made your life horrible during high school will be devoured by the elder gods slightly before you!

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     Post Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:57 am 
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    ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ wrote:
    It's the pro side of staying weird even when everyone is pressuring you into fitting in the mold, you grow upto be an interesting person with the certainty that all those boring assboop that made your life horrible during high school will be devoured by the elder gods slightly before you!

    At least, for those whose minds are already cracked mirrors, it'll be slightly less traumatic when they're shattered utterly.

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