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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:48 am 
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the_tick_rules wrote:
Jillian sleeps around a bit don't she?

In a world without pregnancy or STDs, there is precisely zero reason not to.

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     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:10 am 
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    Although a caster might be capable of hiding in the way suggested, the city wouldn't have changed colors if there were remaining units. So the mannequin isn't Wanda (or Olive).

    However, it seems likely that it's a trap, allowing someone to see though its eyes. Maybe also the "Love Trap" thing suggested.

    A possibility is that Wanda's attraction to Olive was itself based on a similar "love trap", from the garments deliberately left behind.

    I think we will see a replay of Olive's first appearance, but with a very different outcome for Haffaton somehow. Maybe from Wanda turning (she's had lots of time to think about what she could have done differently).

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     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:13 am 
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    I have long had the idea that just like Wanda is kind of an agent of Fate, Jillian is an agent of Love, perhaps unwittingly so. I mean, Love is a battlefield...

    Sleeping around is completely in character.

    This would also kinda explain why Jillian often does irrational things like rescuing Ansom and pissing off Charlie. She might seem incompetent, but if she is driven by Love as a principle or a fundamental force similar to Wanda's relation with Fate, then this is perfectly understandable.

    That would make her an awesome target for hippiemancy traps, of course.

    Yeah, I like Jillian. Always have.

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     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:30 am 
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    Those wondering about the three-edged sword... It's a quote from Kosh, in Babylon 5.

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     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:49 am 
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    Silverhorn wrote:
    Has anyone considered that the mannequin is actually Wanda under a Foolamancy?


    The mannequin's eyes are shaped like Wanda's are in Book 0.

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     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:25 am 
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    As I have presented before, the "Trap" of an unguarded city does not require a direct response. Merely by losing the city, Haffaton now knows that there is an undiscovered enemy in that Hex.

    Look at Haffaton's response to Goodminton's actions. They let Goodminton capture city after city, unopposed, until they totally annihilated the Gms forces and took it all back. They simply do not care if they lose a city or four.

    But now they know they have a new enemy. Now they will begin to move.

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     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:45 am 
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    I also note the rather significant mention of Faq's green flag flapping above the captured city. Unless they raze that city before ending the turn, then Jillian Zamussels is no longer just a mercenary for an unknown side that has occasionally clashed with Haffaton before. Now if they see that flag, they know there's a full-fledged side out there that considers Haffaton to be an enemy that they will attack on sight, and not just a random force of muscle-for-hire.

    I think we all agree that the city is a trap. A huge, elaborate, honeypot of a trap. The question is what the nature of the trap truly is - we've seen the bait and the lure, but not the jaws. Even for a formidable side like Haffaton, though, taking out Jillian's forces won't be easy at all. They could quite legitimately fail, and we know where Wanda ends up eventually. But in the meantime, they're oh-so-vulnerable, and if a single Haffaton scout escapes after seeing that flapping banner...

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     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:14 am 
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    OneHugeTuck wrote:
    It doesn't really make sense to me that a trap spell could last through a city falling and coming under the control of another side. That seems SUPER powerful.

    It may be powerful, but the Faq Warlords in the Tower were worried about a trap in the bedroom, so...

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     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:39 am 
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    OneHugeTuck wrote:
    It doesn't really make sense to me that a trap spell could last through a city falling and coming under the control of another side. That seems SUPER powerful.
    The discussion indicates that a trap can indeed last across the taking of a city. Oddly, there seems to be a bit of doubt in both Jillian and Bart as to whether they actually did take the city:
    Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037 wrote:
    Bart shook his head. “It could be some kind of trap, I guess. But I doubt it’s anything we’d have to fight. It’s not a unit; we just took this city, didn’t we?”

    Jillian smiled a bit. “Are you convincing me? Or yourself?”

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     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:37 pm 
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    Oberon wrote:
    OneHugeTuck wrote:
    It doesn't really make sense to me that a trap spell could last through a city falling and coming under the control of another side. That seems SUPER powerful.
    The discussion indicates that a trap can indeed last across the taking of a city. Oddly, there seems to be a bit of doubt in both Jillian and Bart as to whether they actually did take the city:
    Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037 wrote:
    Bart shook his head. “It could be some kind of trap, I guess. But I doubt it’s anything we’d have to fight. It’s not a unit; we just took this city, didn’t we?”

    Jillian smiled a bit. “Are you convincing me? Or yourself?”

    Hmm. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. The banners changing was the only evidence given of the City being Faq's as far as I can tell. If that could be faked, welllllll.

    What would be really nasty is traps that Croak and Uncroak or trigger rapid plant growth.

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     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:42 pm 
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    Well also recall that the bedroom door was locked but opened itself on Jillian's mental command, something that would only happen if the city were FAQ's

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     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:50 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    Well also recall that the bedroom door was locked but opened itself on Jillian's mental command, something that would only happen if the city were FAQ's

    Or if there were a powerful multi-class caster in the room who wanted Jillian to think that the city were Faq's.

    Don't get me wrong, I believe it is, and that the city is captured. If Wanda's in the tower, I suspect that she right now counts as being in enemy territory or as a captured unit, depending on the mechanics at work. But really, much as there is good reason to think the Doll might be Wanda in disguise, I'm sticking with my theory that the city has been abandoned by a Haffaton force that's a turn's move away in order for them to come back and spring the Love Trap (baby, Love Trap) properly.

    (Also I'm dismayed that nobody else using the term is saying Love Trap (baby, Love Trap) properly.)

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     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:16 pm 
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    Okay, so I'll spill.

    What's in the room?

    Mannequin. Useless.

    Mirror. = Looking Glass. = Lookamancer. Maybe a combined effort of Lookamancy and Dollamancy. Anyway, if you're looking for a super-secret trick, it may be right there.

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     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:18 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    Well also recall that the bedroom door was locked but opened itself on Jillian's mental command, something that would only happen if the city were FAQ's

    Would it? Hardly an effort to rig that compared some of the things we've seen, never mind the things we've specced.

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     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:21 pm 
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    Whispri wrote:
    0beron wrote:
    Well also recall that the bedroom door was locked but opened itself on Jillian's mental command, something that would only happen if the city were FAQ's

    Would it? Hardly an effort to rig that compared some of the things we've seen, never mind the things we've specced.

    I think it would be a more complex trick than Wanda is capable of though. It's possible, but not in my opinion likely.

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     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:30 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    Whispri wrote:
    0beron wrote:
    Well also recall that the bedroom door was locked but opened itself on Jillian's mental command, something that would only happen if the city were FAQ's

    Would it? Hardly an effort to rig that compared some of the things we've seen, never mind the things we've specced.

    I think it would be a more complex trick than Wanda is capable of though. It's possible, but not in my opinion likely.

    Opening a door is complex? Seriously? They can rig towers to shoot off death spells at the approach of hostiles, allowing doorknobs and light switches to work for enemy Units is a comparatively minor feat. And that's assuming the boopin' things can discriminate.

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     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:33 pm 
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    If Jack were here or a master class foolamancer, I could imagine every door was physically opened before the side was given up. And the mental commands opening anything was just an act of foolamancy making them think they were opening something that was never closed. A very intelligent visible illusion I s'pose.

    Also I think it's important to note that apparently not even the chief warlord (She is right?) knows whether a city has actually been captured, OR by what means it has been captured.

    Also, what are the rules on surrendering a city? Do we know anything?

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     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:35 pm 
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    Whispri wrote:
    Opening a door is complex? Seriously? They can rig towers to shoot of death spells at the approach of hostiles, allowing doorknobs and light switches to work for enemy Units is a comparatively minor feat. And that's assuming the boopin' things can discriminate.

    Well actually it could be more complex. The Tower would be a simple "enemy enters hex, fire everything randomly" whereas the mechanic of city control as Jillian describes it seems to involve natural dirt- and think- amancies. However I could be over thinking it and Wanda wouldn't have to actually recreate those mechanics, she could just make a simple visual rig.

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     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:51 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    Whispri wrote:
    Opening a door is complex? Seriously? They can rig towers to shoot of death spells at the approach of hostiles, allowing doorknobs and light switches to work for enemy Units is a comparatively minor feat. And that's assuming the boopin' things can discriminate.

    Well actually it could be more complex. The Tower would be a simple "enemy enters hex, fire everything randomly" whereas the mechanic of city control as Jillian describes it seems to involve natural dirt- and think- amancies. However I could be over thinking it and Wanda wouldn't have to actually recreate those mechanics, she could just make a simple visual rig.

    Right. After all, if we've had weapons that can obliterate a city from thousands of miles away for decades, how hard could it be to get a door to open when we say "open"? [/sarcasm]

    Sheer power alone won't do it for something like this, there needs to be precision too. Unlocking a door with magic is easy. Unlocking it in direct response to mental commands is not.


    Selexor wrote:
    I also note the rather significant mention of Faq's green flag flapping above the captured city. Unless they raze that city before ending the turn, then Jillian Zamussels is no longer just a mercenary for an unknown side that has occasionally clashed with Haffaton before. Now if they see that flag, they know there's a full-fledged side out there that considers Haffaton to be an enemy that they will attack on sight, and not just a random force of muscle-for-hire.

    I think we all agree that the city is a trap. A huge, elaborate, honeypot of a trap. The question is what the nature of the trap truly is - we've seen the bait and the lure, but not the jaws. Even for a formidable side like Haffaton, though, taking out Jillian's forces won't be easy at all. They could quite legitimately fail, and we know where Wanda ends up eventually. But in the meantime, they're oh-so-vulnerable, and if a single Haffaton scout escapes after seeing that flapping banner...

    The last episode explicitly stated that "Haffaton would know that a side called Faq had taken one of its cities". What's more important though is the plan called for bugging out ASAP, and getting as far away from the city as possible before the end of the turn.

    Now it looks like they might not get to that part. Best-case scenario is the WRECD gets lucky, and manage to escape next turn in shame (maybe this isn't an intentional trap, maybe Haffaton's reserves have been deployed elsewhere already). Worst case, they've got a whole regiment of Haffaton fast movers encircling their positions with a battalion or two of infantry inbound as reinforcements.

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     Post Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:17 pm 
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    Nnelg wrote:
    0beron wrote:
    Whispri wrote:
    Opening a door is complex? Seriously? They can rig towers to shoot of death spells at the approach of hostiles, allowing doorknobs and light switches to work for enemy Units is a comparatively minor feat. And that's assuming the boopin' things can discriminate.

    Well actually it could be more complex. The Tower would be a simple "enemy enters hex, fire everything randomly" whereas the mechanic of city control as Jillian describes it seems to involve natural dirt- and think- amancies. However I could be over thinking it and Wanda wouldn't have to actually recreate those mechanics, she could just make a simple visual rig.

    Right. After all, if we've had weapons that can obliterate a city from thousands of miles away for decades, how hard could it be to get a door to open when we say "open"? [/sarcasm]

    Oh, we could do that. It just turns out that no one wants a door that opens when you say 'open'. People might want a door that opens when you say 'open' to it, but that's a much harder problem.

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