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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:20 pm 
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Glome wrote:
Frosted wrote:
The thing I'm most curious about is that the "suits" of cards on Erfworld are.


I'm going to guess the four known arkentools.


It's not certain that there ARE four known arkentools at this point. Didn't Stanley just find the hammer out there in ruins, not claim it from someone else?

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     Post Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:09 pm 
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    drachefly wrote:
    Glome wrote:
    Frosted wrote:
    The thing I'm most curious about is that the "suits" of cards on Erfworld are.


    I'm going to guess the four known arkentools.


    It's not certain that there ARE four known arkentools at this point. Didn't Stanley just find the hammer out there in ruins, not claim it from someone else?


    Hmm, you might be right. Mentioning four arkentools might be an anachronism this early in the story.

    It's possible they just have the same suits as earth then. We already know they have joker's in the deck which mean the same thing based on Jojo's comments.

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     Post Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:28 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    it belongs to Haffaton! Steer clear!


    Perhaps accepting the bounty contract will be useful here. Zero accountability for Faq if she decides to attack?

    I assume it can't be something like her gaining nothing from razing the city if she wins, since she's too experienced as a mercenary to make that kind of oversight.

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     Post Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:48 pm 
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    Kalak wrote:
    Or, this level 2 city is a capital site, largely undefended, because all of their defense is out at the border cities. Maybe Haffaton doesn't anticipate anyone getting inside their borders.

    I don't think it's a Capital Site, otherwise Hedda would have said so because apparently warlords can tell the difference between city cite types. And even if it were and Hedda somehow can't tell, then there is still no reason to take it. The goal is to find an abandoned Capital Site FAR away from Haffaton, not within it!

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     Post Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:20 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    Kalak wrote:
    Or, this level 2 city is a capital site, largely undefended, because all of their defense is out at the border cities. Maybe Haffaton doesn't anticipate anyone getting inside their borders.

    I don't think it's a Capital Site, otherwise Hedda would have said so because apparently warlords can tell the difference between city cite types. And even if it were and Hedda somehow can't tell, then there is still no reason to take it. The goal is to find an abandoned Capital Site FAR away from Haffaton, not within it!


    Just so we're clear, I agree. But, wouldn't it be a delightfully nice kick-in-the-teeth? Also, if it were a decapitation strike (again, it isn't), it would solve their problem in another way.

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     Post Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:36 pm 
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    Jinren wrote:
    0beron wrote:
    it belongs to Haffaton! Steer clear!
    Perhaps accepting the bounty contract will be useful here. Zero accountability for Faq if she decides to attack?

    I assume it can't be something like her gaining nothing from razing the city if she wins, since she's too experienced as a mercenary to make that kind of oversight.
    Razing a city is worth a bunch of schmuckers - perhaps she's just after the cash? FAQ isn't currently employed, so offsetting their upkeep would be a valuable thing to do when it's low-risk.

    Also, if she never picks fights with Haffaton, how is she ever going to meet Wanda?

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     Post Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:41 pm 
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    Kalak wrote:
    0beron wrote:
    Kalak wrote:
    Or, this level 2 city is a capital site, largely undefended, because all of their defense is out at the border cities. Maybe Haffaton doesn't anticipate anyone getting inside their borders.

    I don't think it's a Capital Site, otherwise Hedda would have said so because apparently warlords can tell the difference between city cite types. And even if it were and Hedda somehow can't tell, then there is still no reason to take it. The goal is to find an abandoned Capital Site FAR away from Haffaton, not within it!


    Just so we're clear, I agree. But, wouldn't it be a delightfully nice kick-in-the-teeth? Also, if it were a decapitation strike (again, it isn't), it would solve their problem in another way.

    I know it sounds somewhat absurd, but this could be a secondary capital site that Haffaton actually wants taken and used by a new side for a period of time. I can think of two things that they can gain from this behavior just off the top of my head.

    1: Casters: We've been told that casters pop more frequently in new sides. Let a small side start up within your borders and crush it shortly after it pops its first caster. You have to be careful to keep it from getting too dangerous, but it is doable.
    2: Money: By all appearances, Erfworld has a complex economic model behind it. One of economic truths we know of is that after a certain point sides with more cities become more expensive to maintain. Let a small side start up within your borders and they'll be able to use those cities more profitably than you can. You later crush it at a profit. You have to be careful to keep it from getting too dangerous, but it is doable.

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     Post Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:16 pm 
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    Swodaems wrote:
    1: Casters: We've been told that casters pop more frequently in new sides. Let a small side start up within your borders and crush it shortly after it pops its first caster. You have to be careful to keep it from getting too dangerous, but it is doable.
    2: Money: By all appearances, Erfworld has a complex economic model behind it. One of economic truths we know of is that after a certain point sides with more cities become more expensive to maintain. Let a small side start up within your borders and they'll be able to use those cities more profitably than you can. You later crush it at a profit. You have to be careful to keep it from getting too dangerous, but it is doable.

    If Count Topotato could be exchanged for garments, I think a caster could be exchange without the need for 'crushing'.
    Heck have 4 sides with their own capital inside your territory, maintain the rule all popped force should join the 'main force' thereby keeping the internal capitals from aspiring to take-over.

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     Post Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:44 pm 
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    Thomas60 wrote:
    Swodaems wrote:
    1: Casters: We've been told that casters pop more frequently in new sides. Let a small side start up within your borders and crush it shortly after it pops its first caster. You have to be careful to keep it from getting too dangerous, but it is doable.
    2: Money: By all appearances, Erfworld has a complex economic model behind it. One of economic truths we know of is that after a certain point sides with more cities become more expensive to maintain. Let a small side start up within your borders and they'll be able to use those cities more profitably than you can. You later crush it at a profit. You have to be careful to keep it from getting too dangerous, but it is doable.

    If Count Topotato could be exchanged for garments, I think a caster could be exchange without the need for 'crushing'.
    Heck have 4 sides with their own capital inside your territory, maintain the rule all popped force should join the 'main force' thereby keeping the internal capitals from aspiring to take-over.

    Yup, you don't need to crush a side to extract resources on it. You can always just grab the overlord drop mind control on him, and make him sell all units too you. However, casters pop most often in new sides, so its possible that for maximum caster production they let a side only live for so long, then crush it and start anew.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:47 am 
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    Lamech wrote:
    Thomas60 wrote:
    Swodaems wrote:
    1: Casters: We've been told that casters pop more frequently in new sides. Let a small side start up within your borders and crush it shortly after it pops its first caster. You have to be careful to keep it from getting too dangerous, but it is doable.
    2: Money: By all appearances, Erfworld has a complex economic model behind it. One of economic truths we know of is that after a certain point sides with more cities become more expensive to maintain. Let a small side start up within your borders and they'll be able to use those cities more profitably than you can. You later crush it at a profit. You have to be careful to keep it from getting too dangerous, but it is doable.

    If Count Topotato could be exchanged for garments, I think a caster could be exchange without the need for 'crushing'.
    Heck have 4 sides with their own capital inside your territory, maintain the rule all popped force should join the 'main force' thereby keeping the internal capitals from aspiring to take-over.

    Yup, you don't need to crush a side to extract resources on it. You can always just grab the overlord drop mind control on him, and make him sell all units too you. However, casters pop most often in new sides, so its possible that for maximum caster production they let a side only live for so long, then crush it and start anew.


    I feel like crushing the side would be unnecessary; when it comes down to it, popping casters is a matter of fate or the influences of what the ruler needs/wants. The reason they pop more often on new sides is likely simply because the new side has no caster; thus fate will provide. In fact when Jetstone, a side that relied a lot on dollamancy, lost their dollamancer, they got a replacement not long afterward. Jillian in the opposite, is the type to not care for magic and use brute force so it seems she's getting what she wants. So if a side gets stripped of all its casters, i think its very possible that the side will find it easy to pop a new caster...

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     Post Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:02 am 
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    If Jillian wanted some casters, she could probably make a call to the old FAQ caster that escape. We know that Stanley got only 2 of the bunch they had.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:56 am 
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    Shouldn't Air-War be fought with stacks of 8? :D

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     Post Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:17 pm 
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    So, trap?

    It feels likely, given what we know about Haffaton. But the trap set for Goodminton happened with a level four city after an ongoing, twosided conflict. Haffaton is huge and they only have one Florist, so I very much doubt she's hanging out in this random level 2.

    The question, I think, is whether they have other hippiemancy capable units (high elves?) that could pull the same kind of trick. Lord Christian Sidehug's scouting group apparently had 'perfect confidence in something' that would keep them from being wiped out if the conversation with FAQ escalated to violence, and I doubt that they had whatshername in the hex with them, either.


    Also? Keeping one-city sides within your borders and claiming all their casters in exchange for total protection is pretty brilliant. More something Parson would do than what I'd expect erfworld to come up with on its own, though.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:24 pm 
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    Raza wrote:
    Haffaton is huge and they only have one Florist, so I very much doubt she's hanging out in this random level 2.

    Well for one, I'm tempted to say "Fate is a bytch like that". The odds of Olive being in this random level 2 may be tiny, but Fate would just be that cruel.

    A possible explanation I considered is that Wanda and Olive were on campaign together, and were on their way elsewhere. Wanda had a bunch of uncroaked that just expired so the city is largely empty.
    Another possibility is that perhaps this is "original" Haffaton territory, and Olive popped here, so nostalgia makes her inclined to visit it often.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:48 pm 
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    Morni wrote:
    If Jillian wanted some casters, she could probably make a call to the old FAQ caster that escape. We know that Stanley got only 2 of the bunch they had.


    This assumes they lived. We know wanda "sladyed them at the court"

    We know it didn't go down like Banhammer thought it would. We know Jillian wasn't there, so we don't know if she even knows about survivors. And if so, she seems disinclined to like predictability. Or even anyone in the court who's name isn't Wanda or Jack

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     Post Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:19 pm 
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    name lips wrote:
    Does this mean they don't know for sure if they're in somebody's territory?


    gameboy1234 wrote:
    Good point, they don't seem to know do they.


    You do not control territory, only cities. Since you cannot move to defend hexes you do not occupy on another Side's Turn, you cannot defend territories and therefore do not control land. No one owns a hex that does not include a city.

    As for the trap theory?

    Highly doubtful.

    I've already spoken about this strategy. Since Haffaton has limited forces, they cannot defend all cities. By creating a buffer zone of unoccupied cities to lure greedy Sides to attack, the enemy's location is revealed and forces in cities deeper inside can move to surround and destroy the interlopers. The "trap" is that attacking reveals the existence and location of threats previously unknown to Haffaton. Nothing complex and Side destroying, just a little city sitting there like all the others being a honeypot lure that focuses Haffaton's counter-strikes.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:24 pm 
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    Kreistor wrote:
    As for the trap theory?
    Highly doubtful.
    I've already spoken about this strategy. Since Haffaton has limited forces, they cannot defend all cities. By creating a buffer zone of unoccupied cities to lure greedy Sides to attack, the enemy's location is revealed and forces in cities deeper inside can move to surround and destroy the interlopers. The "trap" is that attacking reveals the existence and location of threats previously unknown to Haffaton. Nothing complex and Side destroying, just a little city sitting there like all the others being a honeypot lure that focuses Haffaton's counter-strikes.

    Under normal circumstances I would definitely agree. But because it's Jillian, and Fate is just that cruel, I feel coincidence will defy the normally slim odds of Olive and/or Wanda being in that city.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:04 pm 
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     Post Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:57 pm 
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    Totally agreed haha! It's unlikely Wanda and/or Olive would be in that city....but if they were, it'd be just the kind of coincidence to give Jillian a major headache :p

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     Post Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:10 pm 
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    I don't think this is an intentional trap.

    I think that Haffaton preparing a random low level city with a trap is not plausible. The trap at Kiloton was very carefully baited and specifically prepared for Goodminton. Do I think it's plausible that it's going to get them in a heap of trouble? The laws of narrative practically demand that it does.

    I don't think it's Wanda. I think that Wanda will be a result of whatever is about to happen.

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