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 Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 043
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:03 am 
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Hi folks...

As interesting and thought-provoking as these discussions are, has anyone noticed this...?

Quote:
At the end of the hall she found the room she needed. She had been here once today already. A shimmering magenta portal stood framed by simple columns on one wall. She did not falter, not a step.


My impression is that Queen Bea stepped into the portal and disbanded.. Is this the proof to resolve the earlier speculation regarding non-caster units going through portals...?



Edit :
Yeah.. sorry, just noticed that a few people have mentioned this - (hard to trawl through 13 pages of madness :D) I thought, however, that there would be more people discussing this... seeing as it was a major point earlier... *shrug* :P

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 043
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:20 am 
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    Hmm. I think this update would've read better without the last line.

    Of course, then we'd have had at least another ten pages of arguing about what had actually happened...

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 043
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:25 am 
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    KiltedNinja wrote:
    Edit :
    Yeah.. sorry, just noticed that a few people have mentioned this - (hard to trawl through 13 pages of madness :D) I thought, however, that there would be more people discussing this... seeing as it was a major point earlier... *shrug* :P


    I tried to bring it twice. Parson may indeed be a caster, though we don't know if the Queen made it to other side of the portal and then was killed there, or if she was simply killed by entering it.

    Bea nuked her side and went through the portal to die. Parson nuked his side and went through the portal to live.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 043
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:25 am 
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    MarbitChow wrote:
    Jetstone almost HAS to change their strategy now based on the information, which means they are playing directly into Ansom's prediction.


    That is an interesting point, the only thing that can save Jetstone is something unexpected happening, and releasing the info makes that less likely.

    However, they are giving up a large tactical advantage.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 043
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:35 am 
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    Well, here's some speculation from me.

    Parson knows that info on the decrypted would eventually get out somehow. So how do you deal with that?

    You taint the info, so that no one knows what to believe.

    Parson could've sent Jack along with the group for this mission, to make it look like Cruz was croaked. Then after Bea sends off the info fed to her, as expected, somehow make it known that Cruz still "lives" (in a sense). This now taints the rest of the info Bea has given by assocation.

    Any possible loss of loyalty due to the troops on other sides hearing an unstable royal might decide to disband them all on a whim would be a bonus.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 043
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:49 am 
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    teratorn wrote:
    I tried to bring it twice. Parson may indeed be a caster, though we don't know if the Queen made it to other side of the portal and then was killed there, or if she was simply killed by entering it.

    Bea nuked her side and went through the portal to die. Parson nuked his side and went through the portal to live.


    If Bea was destroyed by the Magic Kingdom's "defense forces", then that raises the question, why didn't they blast Parson.

    Perhaps, his 'magic aura' or his special stat, gave him a reprieve.

    Maybe the process is to ask "does anyone vouch that this unit is a caster?", before blasting them.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 043
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:01 am 
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    P51mus wrote:
    Parson could've sent Jack along with the group for this mission, to make it look like Cruz was croaked. Then after Bea sends off the info fed to her, as expected, somehow make it known that Cruz still "lives" (in a sense). This now taints the rest of the info Bea has given by assocation.


    Even if he didn't think of it in advance, he could still try something similar, by using foolamancy to make a GK unit look like Cruz. It wouldn't allow "her" answer questions that only cruz would know, but that is probably less important, now that Bea is dead. If they used a living unit, they could even decrypt the unit to make it look like re-decryption is possible.

    All royals that they capture could be copied, so that it is likely that a few of them would be seen to be croaked over and over again.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 043
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:17 am 
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    P51mus wrote:
    Well, here's some speculation from me.

    Parson knows that info on the decrypted would eventually get out somehow. So how do you deal with that?

    You taint the info, so that no one knows what to believe.

    Parson could've sent Jack along with the group for this mission, to make it look like Cruz was croaked. Then after Bea sends off the info fed to her, as expected, somehow make it known that Cruz still "lives" (in a sense). This now taints the rest of the info Bea has given by assocation.

    Any possible loss of loyalty due to the troops on other sides hearing an unstable royal might decide to disband them all on a whim would be a bonus.
    Or even better... it doesn't. They believe everything that the queen saw. They believe that the princess was turned to dust. And restored anyway. How demoralizing would that be?

    ANd I think that Bea was right to send this in secret. If it becomes widely known by troops that the royals might disband themselves? They would have to be placed in the dungeon from their own protection, at least when the decrypted were approaching. The secrecy meanas royals can pull this again. It also means regular troops and WL won't know what they are facing, which of course sucks for plannings sake.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 043
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:54 am 
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    I'd think each city generates more revenue than it consumes. But I guess it depends on the city.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 043
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:08 am 
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    raphfrk wrote:
    If Bea was destroyed by the Magic Kingdom's "defense forces", then that raises the question, why didn't they blast Parson.

    Perhaps, his 'magic aura' or his special stat, gave him a reprieve.

    Maybe the process is to ask "does anyone vouch that this unit is a caster?", before blasting them.


    Or they didn't know what to do with a unit that didn't show any stats whatsoever.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 043
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:17 pm 
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    He's a hippiemancer

    First time posting, but had to bring this up.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 043
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:19 pm 
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    Some things spring to mind relative to this entry.

    1. I thought I remembered Janis saying that too. Odds are that any non-caster entering (or trying to enter) TMK meets Bea's fate, which would explain their consternation at seeing a warlord come through unexpectedly.
    2. I know I risk invoking the instant-lose reference in saying this, but I think Bea would find a lot of common ground with Magda Reitschel. :) Which just goes to show you how different Erf morality is relative to Earth morality, I suppose.
    3. My first thought was "jeez is Parson gonna be pissed." Because, as we all know, he was trying to shop the information to Charlie and letting the cat out of the bag this way will obviously put obstacles in the way of that plan. Then I had another thought. :)
    4. My next thought, much sneakier, is that Parson wants Charlie to believe he's trying to sell the information but, due to Charlie's 'outside-looking-in' perspective, really just wants to keep him from having any leverage with the RCC2. So he managed to waste one of Charlie's free calculations effectively for free, which is a small win for him. Now that Bea's tipped off Don King though, the information (and thus the power) is already potentially in the RCC2's hands, leaving Charlie without a means of ingratiating himself with that side and (in all likelihood) with some fairly significant concerns for his fate in the upcoming mess. That may force him to pay dearly for anything he wants from GK, even to the point of seeking alliance/protection/vassal status (if such exists on Erf) as a non-Royal with little to offer the Royal side.

    Bottom line is that if Parson ordered the negotiation, his best motivation for having done so is to try to put Charlie in his pocket. Down side is that of all the people on Erf we've seen thus far, Charlie's also about the best-equipped to figure out such a strategy and nurse a quiet grudge.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 043
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:21 pm 
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    therealkami wrote:
    He's a hippiemancer

    First time posting, but had to bring this up.

    You're new here, so allow me to say something that everyone else is about to say. He isn't proven to be a hippiemancer, we only know that Janice(name?) said thathe was. Granted, there is no way a traditional story teller would allow a wise woman archetype to lie, but we have great faith in the cleverness of the writers.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 043
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:25 pm 
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    Retconjurer wrote:
    therealkami wrote:
    He's a hippiemancer

    First time posting, but had to bring this up.

    You're new here, so allow me to say something that everyone else is about to say. He isn't proven to be a hippiemancer, we only know that Janice(name?) said thathe was. Granted, there is no way a traditional story teller would allow a wise woman archetype to lie, but we have great faith in the cleverness of the writers.


    New to posting, not new to the comic. It's one line, it explains why he didn't die through the portal, and it foreshadows him potentially bringing peace and love to Erfworld (albeit in a very bloody fashion) There's no reason not to believe it either.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 043
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:29 pm 
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    therealkami wrote:
    New to posting, not new to the comic. It's one line, it explains why he didn't die through the portal, and it foreshadows him potentially bringing peace and love to Erfworld (albeit in a very bloody fashion) There's no reason not to believe it either.

    Several reasons, actually. We've never seen him cast, he failed when trying to use a scroll, and since the battle, no one has mentioned to him that he may be a caster. When Sizemore recently brought up Janis' name, he didn't even know who that was. Lastly, he's banned from returning to the magic kingdom.

    Edit: I do believe it foreshadows him bringing peace to Erf - but not because he's a caster. I think he's just something different.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 043
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:49 pm 
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    Quote:
    Look, I was gonna die. Croak, I mean. So I took a shot at the portal, OK? I don't know why I didn't disband. Maybe I count as a Mathamancer or a Luckamancer or something?


    It's obvious that expected behavior for non-casters entering a portal is to disband. There are only two obvious possible explanations for Parson not disbanding: either he is indeed a caster, or he's enough of an anomaly that the portal algorithm doesn't recognize him as a unit which should be disbanded.

    The idea that non-caster units are generally just croaked by the reception party on the other side of the portal is not supported by a plain reading of the text.

    (ETA: "the Queen had destroyed herself" means something very different from "the Queen had been croaked by the casters of the Magic Kingdom." To destroy oneself means that it is your own actions, not someone else's, which destroyed you. This only makes sense if entering the portal causes non-casters to disband.)

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 043
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:08 pm 
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    atteSmythe wrote:
    therealkami wrote:
    New to posting, not new to the comic. It's one line, it explains why he didn't die through the portal, and it foreshadows him potentially bringing peace and love to Erfworld (albeit in a very bloody fashion) There's no reason not to believe it either.

    Several reasons, actually. We've never seen him cast, he failed when trying to use a scroll, and since the battle, no one has mentioned to him that he may be a caster. When Sizemore recently brought up Janis' name, he didn't even know who that was. Lastly, he's banned from returning to the magic kingdom.

    Edit: I do believe it foreshadows him bringing peace to Erf - but not because he's a caster. I think he's just something different.



    Erfworld tends to be straight forward about many things. Parson's a big guy, so he's a heavy unit. Parson's out of shape, so he has no move. Etc. I think a straight forward interpretation of events so far is that Parson is a literal hippiemancer. He can cast those spells if he learns them. Note that in the recent update featuring him and Jack touring the city, Parson had a staff. I to this to mean Parson was starting to pursue the magic path. Parson's a warlord, I think part of his "special" is that he can also cast spells.

    I think you are also correct -- it does foreshadow that Parson will bring peace. He's just a hippiemancer too.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 043
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:21 pm 
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    Just caught another pun-name. Vanna, a Turnamancer? Ever watch Wheel of Fortune on TV? It's Vanna White that turns the letters.

    Sorry if this was mentioned before...

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 043
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:27 pm 
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    gameboy1234 wrote:
    Erfworld tends to be straight forward about many things. Parson's a big guy, so he's a heavy unit. Parson's out of shape, so he has no move. Etc. I think a straight forward interpretation of events so far is that Parson is a literal hippiemancer. He can cast those spells if he learns them. Note that in the recent update featuring him and Jack touring the city, Parson had a staff. I to this to mean Parson was starting to pursue the magic path. Parson's a warlord, I think part of his "special" is that he can also cast spells.

    I can see it happening, I can just also see reasons to disbelieve it. I think the situation is hardly as trivial as "Janis said he's a hippiemancer, so he's a hippiemancer."

    Consider the early Klog 4 - "My best hope is my own lack of stats. I'm not even sure that the world considers me a 'unit' in the literal sense. It shows that I don't quite fit into this universe, and there's got to be a way I can use that."

    That's an interesting question, actually - what happens if you throw an orange (or something else that isn't a unit) into the magic portal? Is it destroyed, or does it bounce out on the magic kindgom side?

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 043
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:50 pm 
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    atteSmythe wrote:
    gameboy1234 wrote:
    Erfworld tends to be straight forward about many things. Parson's a big guy, so he's a heavy unit. Parson's out of shape, so he has no move. Etc. I think a straight forward interpretation of events so far is that Parson is a literal hippiemancer. He can cast those spells if he learns them. Note that in the recent update featuring him and Jack touring the city, Parson had a staff. I to this to mean Parson was starting to pursue the magic path. Parson's a warlord, I think part of his "special" is that he can also cast spells.

    I can see it happening, I can just also see reasons to disbelieve it. I think the situation is hardly as trivial as "Janis said he's a hippiemancer, so he's a hippiemancer."

    Consider the early Klog 4 - "My best hope is my own lack of stats. I'm not even sure that the world considers me a 'unit' in the literal sense. It shows that I don't quite fit into this universe, and there's got to be a way I can use that."

    That's an interesting question, actually - what happens if you throw an orange (or something else that isn't a unit) into the magic portal? Is it destroyed, or does it bounce out on the magic kindgom side?


    Also consider that he was allowed to cross the magic portal to the Magic Kingdom, but not allowed to cross hex boundaries, either cause he's Garrison, or the world doesn't know entirely what he is.

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