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 Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 041
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:47 pm 
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warriortribble wrote:
Tyris wrote:
Charlie is one of those gamers who, in massive multiplayer situations, gets his power and jollies from manipulating the other players. His whole strategy isn't to play the game to beat the player, it's to play the PLAYER to beat the game.
Out of curiosity, what kind of MMO would allow this kind of strategy? It sounds ruthlessly fun, or ruthlessly painful.


EVE.
http://eve.klaki.net/heist/

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 041
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:50 pm 
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    Dr Bath wrote:
    Akkristor wrote:
    Arkenhammer + Walnut = Pigeon.


    Arkenhammer + Gwiffon = Walnut.


    Arkenhammer + Pigeon = Gwiffon?

    It makes a nice cycle. Walnut -> Pigeon -> Gwiffon -> Walnut.


    I think it was a bat actually. Small flyers <->


    It was aon Orly which is kind of like a pigeon.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 041
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:51 pm 
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    HailGreen28 wrote:
    DevilDan wrote:

    We know that Parson has talked to archons:


    Then what info has Parson got?


    We don't know - when it is relevant for the story then it will be revealed.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 041
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:05 pm 
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    joosy wrote:
    HailGreen28 wrote:
    DevilDan wrote:

    We know that Parson has talked to archons:


    Then what info has Parson got?


    We don't know - when it is relevant for the story then it will be revealed.


    he probably has no more info than charlescomm city locations and troop distribution. any huge secrets, like what charley might be, is charlie just a dish, ect, probably were not asked by parson. charley is just scared of the potential of those things being revealed, or he may just be bluffing a fake weakness to give him an excuse to show jillian the new chief warlord of GK.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 041
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:18 pm 
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    warriortribble wrote:
    Tyris wrote:
    Charlie is one of those gamers who, in massive multiplayer situations, gets his power and jollies from manipulating the other players. His whole strategy isn't to play the game to beat the player, it's to play the PLAYER to beat the game.
    Out of curiosity, what kind of MMO would allow this kind of strategy? It sounds ruthlessly fun, or ruthlessly painful.


    Not MMO's so much, but in stratagy games like, say, diplomacy, it's really the primary stratagy. Manipulate your enemies into fighting by making them think that you're not the main threat, play one alliance off against anotehr then when everyone else is weak winning by surprise.

    By the way, while I agree Charley is personally upset by the loss of his Archeons, (In the show, Charley gave the impression that he did actually care a great deal about his Angels, and I think it applies) I don't think he holds that against Parson or against Stanley. He backstabbed Parson, for profit, because he thought it was a situation that contained no losing outcome for him. He was wrong, becuase he had underestimated Parson, but I don't see any sign that he's angry at Parson for that; he knew that if he allied with the Royal Coalition that Parson would kill his units if at all possible, he just didn't realize it was possible. Now, decrypting them might be a different story.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 041
     Post Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:40 pm 
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    I saw that someone asked how I know Charlie isn't based in that area of the world, and after looking, I realized I couldn't find anything definitive. However, this:

    http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F042.jpg

    suggests that he isn't based near the conflict, as he refers to it as the "Great Western Conflict". This would imply that he isn't in the western part of Erfworld.

    Also: assuming Charlie is a master class thinkamancer and that the Arkendish is an uber powerful thinkamancy artifact, does anyone else want to see Charlie link about 5 different casters together (say... lookamancer, shockamancer, luckamancer, and a retconjurer) to start nuking the rest of the planet at will?

    Or even possibly more fun, lookamancer, turnamancer (yes, I think these guys mind control based on the name), a foolamancer, and a luckamancer to start stealing enemy units from across the world.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 041
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:15 am 
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    Kaminobob wrote:
    warriortribble wrote:
    Tyris wrote:
    Charlie is one of those gamers who, in massive multiplayer situations, gets his power and jollies from manipulating the other players. His whole strategy isn't to play the game to beat the player, it's to play the PLAYER to beat the game.
    Out of curiosity, what kind of MMO would allow this kind of strategy? It sounds ruthlessly fun, or ruthlessly painful.


    EVE.
    http://eve.klaki.net/heist/


    I raise you http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7905924.stm the end of Band of Brothers.
    or http://pc.ign.com/articles/100/1002527p1.html the E-Bank scandal. Which the player wasn't banned for stealing from players. That's legal game tactics. He was banned for selling ISK for real money offline.

    Yea, EVE, it's like the wild west meets shadowrun.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 041
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:37 am 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Has collected at least one unit
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    Very interesting. It's almost as though Charlie displayed some sort of emotion!

    Keep 'em coming!

    -H

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 041
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:07 am 
    Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Has collected at least one unit Here for the 10th Anniversary
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    Charlie?

    Charlie's mercenary business depends on reliability and delivery; presumably, up to now, purchasing Charlie's services mean success (within the terms of his contracts). Thus, Charlie did not turn on Prince Ansom until Ansom released him from service. At that point, Charlie, who is presumably paid turn-by-turn, is free to sell his services where he chooses ... and where he is paid - thus providing yet another reason to acquire his services. Remember, if Charlie is under contract to you, then he cannot be on the other side. Charlie's prices reflect that, as well.

    And being in that business, Charlie must be ruthlessly honest. That's part of what he charges for - information and service.

    And that, I think, is why Charlie is in such trouble now. He took contract with Ansom's RCC coalition - and the coalition was wiped out in a painfully dramatic way. Charlie (if I may steal his terminology) simply did not deliver on his value proposition!

    The fancy that Charlie is a linked entity, or a sentient arkentool, is a fancy. There is nothing to support such a hypothesis. One might as well suggest Charlie is a hippopotamus, has a second (or third) arkentool, or practices macrame as a hobby. No evidence.

    That archon-units are a specialty of the Arkendish is, likewise, speculation, but very decent speculation. The Arkenhammer does dwagons, the Arkenpliers supply decrypted (and I admit to much puzzlement that it does not supply decwypted instead!). So it seems reasonable that archons may not be unique to the Arkendish, but a signature feature, similar to the dwagons.

    I look forward to further revelations of Charlie's secrets.

    Happiness,
    Roszlishan

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 041
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:22 am 
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    If I had a shmucker for every time that we take speculation as gospel truth around here... or even for every time I've pointed out an example of this.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 041
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:47 am 
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    Roszlishan wrote:
    (and I admit to much puzzlement that it does not supply decwypted instead!)


    "Dwagon" is a 'cute' name for a Dragon.
    Uncroaked is a 'cute' name for decaying (zombie-like) Undead.
    Decrypted is a 'cute' name for immortal Undead.

    Changing 'decrypted' to 'decwypted' would double-cutesify it.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 041
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:01 am 
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    Akkristor wrote:
    Arkenhammer + Gwiffon = Walnut.

    Arkenhammer + Megalogwiff = ...Coconut?

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 041
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:04 am 
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    DevilDan wrote:
    If I had a shmucker for every time that we take speculation as gospel truth around here... or even for every time I've pointed out an example of this.

    wow the wiki must enfuriate you even more than it does me

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 041
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:13 am 
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    Tubal-Cain wrote:
    Akkristor wrote:
    Arkenhammer + Gwiffon = Walnut.

    Arkenhammer + Megalogwiff = ...Coconut?

    Now that's speculation that I can stand behind.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 041
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:42 am 
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    I like Moose's idea of popping a stack of pigeons. Just imagine, he can train them to fly messages! Or maybe to go make a mess of other people's cities =P

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 041
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:21 am 
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    moose o death wrote:
    DevilDan wrote:
    If I had a shmucker for every time that we take speculation as gospel truth around here... or even for every time I've pointed out an example of this.

    wow the wiki must enfuriate you even more than it does me


    With Retconjuration around, nothing can really be considered 100% canon forever. 99.99%, heck yes.
    But yeah, the wiki's an interesting place, for sure.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 041
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:01 am 
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    alot of "propossed canon" on the wiki is baseless speculation. such a distinction should be removed entirely. if that means the erf wiki looks much emptier, then good, it serves as a reminder that erfworld isn't even an infant story yet.

    people have been treating the upcoming story as the final story for erfworld. but rob and balder will most likely draw the storyline out for as many years as readership remains steady or grows.

    and i'd be very surprised if there isn't ten years in it.i can't honestly say when it started. but it's probably been around two years already and we've only heard the first story and some preludes for the next.

    the next book will be another small battle that builds the world picture even further. the biggest challenges will come much later. the wiki is too early

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 041
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:27 am 
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    moose o death wrote:
    alot of "propossed canon" on the wiki is baseless speculation.
    The next time you see it, could you move it to the "speculation" section? :oops: We really don't mean to put our epileptic trees up there, they just slip in from time to time.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 041
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:28 am 
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    moose o death wrote:
    alot of "propossed canon" on the wiki is baseless speculation. such a distinction should be removed entirely. if that means the erf wiki looks much emptier, then good, it serves as a reminder that erfworld isn't even an infant story yet.

    people have been treating the upcoming story as the final story for erfworld. but rob and balder will most likely draw the storyline out for as many years as readership remains steady or grows.

    and i'd be very surprised if there isn't ten years in it.i can't honestly say when it started. but it's probably been around two years already and we've only heard the first story and some preludes for the next.

    the next book will be another small battle that builds the world picture even further. the biggest challenges will come much later. the wiki is too early


    I'm sure it was 2006 when Erfworld started.. so that's 3 years closely edging on 4 (depends on when in 2006 tho..)

    But yeah, it is true that a significant amount of info in the Wiki is what you'd call "baseless speculation" - however, like any analysis of information - *Everything* - is speculation until proven otherwise, just because we have no 'hard evidence' doesn't mean that there shouldn't be a repository for these thoughts.

    Gotta remember, every day there are new people discovering Erfworld, who may not necessarily have the time to read through this entire forum (it's fairly massive...) - The Wiki is a good way to get a better idea of what's going on - or at least, an idea of what everyone here thinks is going on.

    And I hope Erfworld does last 10 years... Longer if they can do it. It's a fantastic story, very deserving of the hype.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 041
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:49 am 
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    I'm loving these updates, and I'm always happy to see ( ;) ) more of Mr. enigmatic himself - Charlie.

    HailGreen28 wrote:
    If the decrypted Archons are seen working for Stanley, then Charlie might be SCREWED.

    Stanley hates Charlie. And every Royal side already distrusts Charlie after the "offer TV couldn't accept". If the Royals see Archons in Stanley's strikeforce........

    Then Charlie has NO friends in the western conflict. Only enemies.


    If he is telling the truth about his relationship with the other members of RCII, and the presence of the Decrypted Archons in the strike force is hurting his rep, it might make sense to get the information out about Ansom and GK's chief Croakmancer... let the other sides put 2 + 2 together that something fishy is going on.

    Or alternatively hurt Jetstone a little, get people questioning them as well.

    Like through the wild card of the royals. And it can't be a coincidence that the only Erfworlder Charlie feels he can share this intelligence with is the one who'll be the most affected/angered by it.

    I suspect Charlie is uniquely placed to appreciate the uncertainty of what is happening, and the awkward position he is in, but he doesn't seem desperate. I think it is possible he is setting up Jillian as a sort of proxy in the RCII. The information he is giving isn't truly free - he is potentially earning more valuable things like influence and reputation.

    Roketter wrote:
    Still i think Charlie's being true for the first time. Even if some coalition leaders still take his calls, they'd be fools to hire him as eagerly as they did before, the treath of Gobwin Knob is unbalancing Erfworld, and they don't like him either, and King Slately managed to keep all his allies even after the epic failure after sending all their troops into an Hydrogen bomb explosion. It'll soon be total war and Charlie could find himself very very lonely.


    During the Battle for GK the Coalition didn't jump to hire him either. When Ansom felt the need Charlie stated "One of the sides in the great western conflict has finally met our price", then after not working with TV in the Stanley ambush Ansom only signed another contract while desperate.

    I guess it depends on how extensive the destruction of the previous Coalition has had on his non-Coalition based dealings, he might be exaggerating his concern about not being brought on board by the RCII so early in the game.

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