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 Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 039
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:36 pm 
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Mr. Goodwraith wrote:
Unless the Arkentools are a recent introduction to Erfworld, I find it very odd that Charlie can't deduce what has happened to his archons. Erf seems to have been running long enough for some sides/units to build up a lot of knowledge and even culture and philosophy; say at least 50,000 turns (136 years of game time if an Erf year is 365 days long)? If the Arkentools have been in Erf since the beginning, various characters have *surely* been attuned to the Pliers and used them to some effect before Wanda, and records or at least legends of those people and their decrypted units will have existed for Charlie to learn from, even if Charlie hasn't been around that long himself.

It's certainly possible, but I think the odds get longer if, to decrypt, the previous attuned user also had to be a croakamancer. I also seem to recall that we never heard how Ansom got the pliers in the first place. It's possible - maybe even probable - that they've been held by Jetstone for a long time. And if the Royalty really is on its way out of the Titans' divine plan, Jetstone may not have had anyone attuned to Fate for as long as they've held the pliers.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 039
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:57 pm 
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    Depends on the caster/warlord dynamics. There are two kinds of commanders, and warlords appear to be dominant. Casters have their magic kingdoms were warlords are not welcome; but everywhere else it's warlords who rule. Casters might never have had, before, the opportunity (through an overlord absent and a warlord too preoccupied by other things) to grab an arkentool without being ordered to stop and let the warlord pick it up instead.

    Jetstone doesn't strike me as the kind of people who'd formulate the idea of "let's buff a caster with artifacts and send it on the frontlines as commander while our warlords learn knitting or something".

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 039
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:23 pm 
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    Gez wrote:
    Jetstone doesn't strike me as the kind of people who'd formulate the idea of "let's buff a caster with artifacts and send it on the frontlines as commander while our warlords learn knitting or something".


    True. However, presumably, croakamancers spend more time near battles relative to other caster types. Stanley sent Wanda to the site of the battle where manpower was killed after the RCC has left. Also, attunement seems to have a visual effect.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 039
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:56 pm 
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    This update made me laugh.

    I don't think Parson is a hippiemancer, I don't think he's an anything so specific by erfworld terms cause he isn't from erfworld. Wish I had that bracer though :D sounds a bit like my TI-89. Still finding new and interesting things I can solve with it. It can solve probability problems. Haven't found an app that can predict the future yet though ;) What a waste that someone who can't remember what trigonometry is has such an awesome device at his disposal! It may not be an arkentool, but it's definatly powerful.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 039
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:02 pm 
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    atteSmythe wrote:
    It's certainly possible, but I think the odds get longer if, to decrypt, the previous attuned user also had to be a croakamancer.

    Well, that's true. But given that the main power of the unattuned Arkenpliers seems to be to destroy the uncroaked, I would think that any side curious about what the Pliers' attuned powers would be would try putting them in a croakamancer's hands first off, assuming they had any croakamancers.

    atteSmythe wrote:
    I also seem to recall that we never heard how Ansom got the pliers in the first place. It's possible - maybe even probable - that they've been held by Jetstone for a long time. And if the Royalty really is on its way out of the Titans' divine plan, Jetstone may not have had anyone attuned to Fate for as long as they've held the pliers.

    Given how powerful the other attuned Arkentools are, I can't see a side as powerful and populous as Jetstone just "sitting on" the Pliers (or any of the others) for any length of time without repeatedly trying to attune them, handing them briefly to each new warlord and caster as they pop.

    Gez wrote:
    Casters might never have had, before, the opportunity (through an overlord absent and a warlord too preoccupied by other things) to grab an arkentool without being ordered to stop and let the warlord pick it up instead.

    That would be an incredibly shortsighted thing for a side to do. Unless, of course, the possibility of attuning to an Arkentool is something that has only recently been discovered?

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 039
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:10 pm 
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    Mr. Goodwraith wrote:
    Given how powerful the other attuned Arkentools are, I can't see a side as powerful and populous as Jetstone just "sitting on" the Pliers (or any of the others) for any length of time without repeatedly trying to attune them, handing them briefly to each new warlord and caster as they pop.

    I don't believe that Jetstone would even consider putting them in the hands of a unit that wasn't Royal, or at least Noble.

    Edit: In fact, my original thought was that probably only the heir/chief warlord would be permitted to use them

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 039
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:31 pm 
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    Mr. Goodwraith wrote:
    Well, that's true. But given that the main power of the unattuned Arkenpliers seems to be to destroy the uncroaked, I would think that any side curious about what the Pliers' attuned powers would be would try putting them in a croakamancer's hands first off, assuming they had any croakamancers.

    "It destroys the uncroaked with but a touch! Maybe it negates croakamancy? We should make sure our croakamancers are never in the same hex, it could damage their stats!"

    Mr. Goodwraith wrote:
    That would be an incredibly shortsighted thing for a side to do. Unless, of course, the possibility of attuning to an Arkentool is something that has only recently been discovered?

    Not shortsighted, selfish. Do you think if Stanley had been at Gobwin Knob he would have let Wanda search for the pliers? He would have done so himself! He wanted to have both tools in his own hands. Now that Wanda is attuned, he can't take them from her (he couldn't justify going against what's obviously the Titans' will, and given that he's kinda afraid of her now he wouldn't want to force the confrontation anyway), and that's something he would probably have wanted to avoid if he knew it was possible.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 039
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:49 pm 
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    Quote:
    Unless the Arkentools are a recent introduction to Erfworld, I find it very odd that Charlie can't deduce what has happened to his archons. Erf seems to have been running long enough for some sides/units to build up a lot of knowledge and even culture and philosophy; say at least 50,000 turns (136 years of game time if an Erf year is 365 days long)? If the Arkentools have been in Erf since the beginning, various characters have *surely* been attuned to the Pliers and used them to some effect before Wanda, and records or at least legends of those people and their decrypted units will have existed for Charlie to learn from, even if Charlie hasn't been around that long himself.


    My response is suitably simpler. Since clearly not everyone can attune to an Arkentool, it seems reasonable to conclude that it is POSSIBLE (although not necessarily probable) that nobody has ever attuned to the Arkenpliers since they had been discovered.

    Also, it doesn't say how Stanley found the Arkenhammer, but it does say he discovered and attuned to it. It seems to imply the Arkenhammer was recently discovered. Perhaps the same is true for the Arkenpliers.

    Regardless, the whole "royalty" thing going on suggests that Ansom would never allow a non-royal to wield a tool of the titan such as the Arkenpliers.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 039
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:12 pm 
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    atteSmythe wrote:
    I don't believe that Jetstone would even consider putting them in the hands of a unit that wasn't Royal, or at least Noble.

    Lightbender wrote:
    Regardless, the whole "royalty" thing going on suggests that Ansom would never allow a non-royal to wield a tool of the titan such as the Arkenpliers.

    Good point, guys.

    Gez wrote:
    "It destroys the uncroaked with but a touch! Maybe it negates croakamancy? We should make sure our croakamancers are never in the same hex, it could damage their stats!"

    Gez wrote:
    Not shortsighted, selfish. Do you think if Stanley had been at Gobwin Knob he would have let Wanda search for the pliers?

    More good points. I'm clearly not thinking conservatively enough to capture the prevailing Erf mindset here. :?

    Lightbender wrote:
    it doesn't say how Stanley found the Arkenhammer, but it does say he discovered and attuned to it. It seems to imply the Arkenhammer was recently discovered. Perhaps the same is true for the Arkenpliers.

    Yet another good point -- I forgot about Stanley's "discovery". Maybe I should go back to lurking... :)


    Last edited by Mr. Goodwraith on Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 039
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:15 pm 
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    moose o death wrote:
    or she didn't want to clean his gooey remains off the rug, i'm more inclined as a hippymancer herself she didn't want to see him killed and she knows what he is. the other casters were set to kill him. she lied about his nature to save his life.

    parson is a warlord. casters cannot be warlords.or else wanda would have been made a warlord in order to apply stack bonus's to NON decrypted units. or the earlier uncroaked scenario's.


    Except if "normal" warlord shows up in the Magic Kingdom, they disband.

    He is a warlord. But that's clearly not *all* that he is.

    Quote:
    it's pretty likely parson would've cast something in the roughly a month of existing as a war unit. but he hasn't. some units would be happy to survive nearly 30 turns.


    Oh, I'm pretty sure he can't cast any magic now. I would be interested to see what would happen, though, if Janis tried to teach him hippemancer magic, like she was doing for Sizemore here. http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F011.jpg

    We don't have any reason to think a normal erfworld unit can be both a caster and a warlord. However, a human from Earth might be able to learn multiple skills.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 039
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:19 pm 
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    Also, Jetstone doesn't strike me as the type to employ Naughtymancers.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 039
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:33 pm 
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    are we back on arkentools again?

    the simple solution to all of those questions is the arkentool amplifies the units inate abilities and enables previously locked talents.

    eg wanda had a stat that said decrypt (arkentool) on her invisible stats. the predictamancers can see the invisible stats.

    if one tool can only attune to one unit, then the whole process get's messier, but for now i'm assuming that (and i have the comic backing you thought you had) the arkentools are simply enablers not the actual power. afterall a good tradesman doesn't blame his tools

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 039
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:34 pm 
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    Lightbender wrote:
    Regardless, the whole "royalty" thing going on suggests that Ansom would never allow a non-royal to wield a tool of the titan such as the Arkenpliers.


    Also, there is this page, where he points it at Wanda and then pulls it away when he realises that it may attune to her.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 039
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:36 pm 
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    moose o death wrote:
    the simple solution to all of those questions is the arkentool amplifies the units inate abilities and enables previously locked talents.


    It is also simple that the pliers has a stat:

    "Attune requirements:
    Class: Croakamancer
    Min Fate stat: 10"

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 039
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:41 pm 
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    It's also possible that the Arkentools are designed to attune to only one person... ever. Or to only one person within X turns, where X is sufficiently large that no library will contain any record of battles fought X turns ago. We have no indication that any of the Arkentools have been attuned to anybody else on Erf (i.e. no legends of X or Y taking an Arkentool and conquering hte world)

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 039
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:43 pm 
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    raphfrk wrote:
    Lightbender wrote:
    Regardless, the whole "royalty" thing going on suggests that Ansom would never allow a non-royal to wield a tool of the titan such as the Arkenpliers.


    Also, there is this page, where he points it at Wanda and then pulls it away when he realises that it may attune to her.


    Ansom's face doesn't strike me as a 'waiiiiiiiiiiit a minute' face. It seems more like 'what's with this crazy woman?' than anything else. I.E. becoming weirded out as opposed to becoming suspicious. Given how rarely the tools attune, it's likely that attunement is the furthest thing from his mind.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 039
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:46 pm 
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    if Wanda was "destined" to attune to the arkenpliers that seems to negate the possibility of anyone else attuning to them, no matter how many tried. so even if every warlord, caster, piker, sourmander, whatever, tried to attune to the pliers, it wouldn't work as long as wanda is alive.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 039
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:54 pm 
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    reteo wrote:
    The Shadow wrote:
    I wish the 'Parson is a Hippiemancer' meme would die. I've never thought for a moment that was more than a convenient lie on Janis' part to keep Parson from being immediately croaked. I mean, if he were demonstrably a Hippiemancer, there would be no issue with him going back to the Magic Kingdom, right?


    Is there a Word of God I'm missing? Because the "meme" will only die once all ambiguity over the matter has been resolved, either from a post in Janis's perspective, demonstrable hippiemancy on Parson's part, or via the author's own statement. And I've yet to see the first two played out.


    There is a word of god somewhere, in a blog I think, that alludes that the next installment would reveal something. And the next installment was the hippymancer unveil. So everyone is focused on that. But I can't find that quote and I can't remember exactly what was said. But it essentially made a big deal of the next update before it came.

    But the truth is. The whole Parson is a caster thing was going on long before the hippy unveil.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 039
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:01 pm 
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    tholofonos wrote:
    Ending made me burst out laughing.

    Likewise! :lol:

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 039
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:29 pm 
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    I wouldn't put it past Parson to interpert
    "Tell me the odds that learning what happened to my Archons right now will be worth giving up those calculations in the future."
    creatively. The best thing for Parson to have done would be to make certain 'assumptions' about the value of the calculations, and about the value of the information, and base his result on those assumptions.

    Then, having given what he knows to be worthless information, imply that he is now better than he actually is. Now Charlie has a peice of inaccurate information, and he thinks he paid for it.

    Or maybe Charlie knew the powers of the artifact earlier, and wanted to know that Parson knew about them.

    Methinks that both Parson and Charlie have read both Dune and The Art of War...

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