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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:56 am 
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Ahhh! It just keeps gettin' better.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:05 am 
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    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user has been published! This user is a Tool! This user posted the comment of the month Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Armored Dwagon Monthly Winner This user got funny with a rodent Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
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    Bun-Bun has entered the battlefield. There will be no survivors!

    EDIT: Additionally it seems the tower is collapsing away from the courtyard where the Decrypted are. I really hope this is not a mistake, as I have long been fearing that Rob will use the rubble of the tower to prevent Artemis from being Decrypted and joining GK. I really looooove her attitude, and the way she had been put out to pasture really creates a unique background for a character in this comic. Typically, warriors have been sent out to war until they croak, or retire and become useless managers. I really want to follow the thoughts of Artemis as she is hungry for glory and triumph, but will find herself fighting for an opposing side to the one that Popped her. But that is the side that put her practically into exile! The mental conflicts such a character would have are wonderful! And then there is the war stories she could share of her campaigns alongside Forthewin. And then there is always the possibility of her and Sylvia getting into a Decrypted cat-fight. That does seem like something Rob would do.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:16 am 
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    Selexor wrote:
    Now, I'm assuming that Tramennis might be being carried by one of the Unipegataurs - Slately would have probably felt it when his Chief Warlord was incapacitated, so he'd know about that. Pierce might have even healed Tramennis, though if so I'm surprised we weren't shown it. But I do wonder what comes next... considering that Dwagons seem to have a formidable amount of Move, how far can Jetstone possibly fly before Gobwin Knob's next turn? Slately and his merry band may escape the fall of Spacerock only to be chased down and croaked a handful of hexes away, unless someone can come to their aid.

    And here's a final thought. Assuming that Slately achieves his goal, the Decryted Archons are pretty much done for, since Slately specifically stated his intention to earn Charlie's bounty. He won't leave any behind. So Wanda loses her little squadron of flying mini-casters. On the other hand... assuming she makes it back into Spacerock before the portal closes, is a Decrypted Cubbins fair trade? After this display, I'm thinking yes.


    Trem's original plan was for Slately to get out of immediate danger and then assess the chances of taking out Wanda's forces in the city. If the risk was too great he was planning on falling back to the new capital (better to loose a city then give Wanda a new army).

    Slately was planning on fighting to the death originally, if Don King had been able to give him the gem Trem would have been promoted and sent away and Slately would have attacked the dwagons (I guess taking most of the army with him). That didn't work out so now he is attacking the archons. I guess Trem must have thought that either a. he would attack the dwagons and win, crisis averted or he'd attack and loose but Slately would still have a chance to get to the new capital or b. retreat with Slately and hopefully whatever remained of Wanda's air force wouldn't be able to muster enough force to be able to safely take out Slately in the middle of the army (since they would still have a lot of archers, warlords and casters at mostly full strength).

    Now... well, who can say what Slately's long term plan is (though his short term plan hasn't changed). Oss turning and Cubbins going out with a bang seems to have just improved the survivability of his warband hugely. I would guess if the chance arises escaping on foot is still a real option - only since the GK forces have lost a stack of red and green dwagons and (presumably) the Archons and Oss that option has probably gotten a whole lot safer. More so if Wanda can't get back since they wouldn't have the bonus from the pliers (or caster support at all for that matter). Alternatively if Wanda can't get back maybe they'll decide to try and take the remaining dwagons and decrypted - Jetstone still has an entire army standing there and a grenade or two.

    Lamech wrote:
    Dang, I just realized this: Tram is down for the count and his healers gone. What a terrible way to go, an off-handed attack by Wanda? He died, to a side effect to a plan to get some use out of spare dwagons. That just sucks.


    Pierce hasn't gone anywhere yet. Assuming Warlord Greybrows and the guys Trem was with got him away from the tower (into the city where the rest of the Jetstone troops were marshaling safe from the dwagons) he still has the rest of this turn for Pierce to make it to him. I'm half expecting Cubbins hat to fall near them with a (no, not the sword of Gryffindor) healing wand or some sort sticking out.

    Don't count the little guy out just yet.

    abb3w wrote:
    The saw being a standard prop for the "Cut the lady in half" trick.
    Of course, other magicians usually consider the trick poorly done if the magician can't put the lady back together at the end of the trick....


    Alas, the war with GK interrupted Cubbins studies so he never had a chance to learn how to put the lady back together again.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:46 pm 
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    had to ideas a hat guy could do that, awesome.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:37 pm 
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    Location: Someplace where there are a lot of Scandinavians, but not Scandinavia.
    Wow! I've been reading this since 2008, and the appearance of Bun=bun stunned me so much that I had to join the forum.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:30 pm 
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    Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
    Lamech wrote:
    Dang, I just realized this: Tram is down for the count and his healers gone. What a terrible way to go, an off-handed attack by Wanda? He died, to a side effect to a plan to get some use out of spare dwagons. That just sucks.


    Pierce hasn't gone anywhere yet. Assuming Warlord Greybrows and the guys Trem was with got him away from the tower (into the city where the rest of the Jetstone troops were marshaling safe from the dwagons) he still has the rest of this turn for Pierce to make it to him. I'm half expecting Cubbins hat to fall near them with a (no, not the sword of Gryffindor) healing wand or some sort sticking out.


    Much as I hate that charming witty piece of rainbow pie, indeed TINDY. Trem's Not Dead Yo. May the fella live long and prosper.

    osirisascending wrote:
    {Location is}: somewhere with lots of Scandinavians, but not Scandinavia


    Minnesota?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:44 pm 
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    I actually agree with Kriestor's interpretation of Cubbin's trick - he's pulling real live dangers out of his hat. They might expire shortly, like summons tend to do (and as Wanda said you can put more effort into making a few last longer or little effort into having many, now, for a short while).

    I disagree with most of his other theories. Which, y'know, theories are fine and all.

    But I don't care to wade through the piles of self-aggrandizing BS he couches those opinions in. I just learned how to use the ignore feature on these forums specifically for that reason - though I imagine people will still quote him in rebuttals, so there's no being totally free. Let's all just not feed the troll, hm? Self-acknowledging the fact that you're an asshole does not give you license to revel in it.

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    Sorry*.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:41 pm 
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    Ditto wrote:
    But I don't care to wade through the piles of self-aggrandizing BS he couches those opinions in. I just learned how to use the ignore feature on these forums specifically for that reason - though I imagine people will still quote him in rebuttals, so there's no being totally free. Let's all just not feed the troll, hm? Self-acknowledging the fact that you're an asshole does not give you license to revel in it.

    If he is a troll, you just fed him. If he's not a troll you just did him wrong. Comments like this are not helpful.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:45 pm 
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    Didn't Ossomer and his carpet's move drop to zero when GK's turn ended? He might be stuck in the hex.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:02 pm 
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    Goshen wrote:
    Ditto wrote:
    But I don't care to wade through the piles of self-aggrandizing BS he couches those opinions in. I just learned how to use the ignore feature on these forums specifically for that reason - though I imagine people will still quote him in rebuttals, so there's no being totally free. Let's all just not feed the troll, hm? Self-acknowledging the fact that you're an asshole does not give you license to revel in it.

    If he is a troll, you just fed him. If he's not a troll you just did him wrong. Comments like this are not helpful.


    Good point. Covering all bases always earns my respect.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:30 pm 
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    teratorn wrote:
    Didn't Ossomer and his carpet's move drop to zero when GK's turn ended? He might be stuck in the hex.


    We know from when the archons joined the RCC's siege of GK a side that joins an alliance doesn't get it's move points refreshed until the alliances next turn. But I duno if that applies here. Ossomer didn't ally with jetstone, he is jetstone now, i'm not sure if that falls under the same thing.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:12 am 
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    the_tick_rules wrote:
    teratorn wrote:
    Didn't Ossomer and his carpet's move drop to zero when GK's turn ended? He might be stuck in the hex.


    We know from when the archons joined the RCC's siege of GK a side that joins an alliance doesn't get it's move points refreshed until the alliances next turn. But I duno if that applies here. Ossomer didn't ally with jetstone, he is jetstone now, i'm not sure if that falls under the same thing.


    It applies. Ossomer Moved from Exposition Bridge to Jetstone during GK Turn, so he already took Move today. His Move is 0 for the reason you suggest.

    However, if Jetstone still owns the City, he can Move to Courtyard or anywhere in the City. If GK owns the city and the portal really did despawn, then he is stuck in Airspace.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:24 am 
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
    Lamech wrote:
    Dang, I just realized this: Tram is down for the count and his healers gone. What a terrible way to go, an off-handed attack by Wanda? He died, to a side effect to a plan to get some use out of spare dwagons. That just sucks.


    Pierce hasn't gone anywhere yet. Assuming Warlord Greybrows and the guys Trem was with got him away from the tower (into the city where the rest of the Jetstone troops were marshaling safe from the dwagons) he still has the rest of this turn for Pierce to make it to him. I'm half expecting Cubbins hat to fall near them with a (no, not the sword of Gryffindor) healing wand or some sort sticking out.


    Much as I hate that charming witty piece of rainbow pie, indeed TINDY. Trem's Not Dead Yo. May the fella live long and prosper.


    Yes! T-IN-DY! T-IN-DY!

    the_tick_rules wrote:
    We know from when the archons joined the RCC's siege of GK a side that joins an alliance doesn't get it's move points refreshed until the alliances next turn. But I duno if that applies here. Ossomer didn't ally with jetstone, he is jetstone now, i'm not sure if that falls under the same thing.


    Yeah, I don't think there is a way to trick the system into getting more moves through alliances or whatever, though the question of city zones is still up in the air (and who owns the city now - Jetstone/GK/contested) - as it were. If the city doesn't count as Jetstones anymore and he was stuck in the airspace with no move and got put on something with move remaining (like a Peguni) could it carry him down to the garrison or some other part of the city? Or would he be left floating at the zone boundary? If it does still count as Jetstone's I guess he would be free to move around now the city now.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:48 am 
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    Ossomer's best course of action is croaking the dwagons in the Atrium. He needs to stack with the dittomancer and the archers, giving them his huge bonus, and target the dwagons at close range. The dwagons can't do a thing to retaliate, and the surviving archons may decide not intervene.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:49 am 
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    Kreistor wrote:
    It applies. Ossomer Moved from Exposition Bridge to Jetstone during GK Turn, so he already took Move today. His Move is 0 for the reason you suggest.

    However, if Jetstone still owns the City, he can Move to Courtyard or anywhere in the City. If GK owns the city and the portal really did despawn, then he is stuck in Airspace.


    There's no reason we know of the mount relay exploit shouldn't work for allied units, so in principle even with move 0 Ossomer could mount a unipegataur and escape. I don't actually expect that to happen in the press of battle, this is pretty clearly still a fight Jetstone can't afford to dink around with while playing with their deployment, so I expect he goes down fighting or perhaps turns the tide enough to retake the city, but it's a possibility.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:28 am 
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    Saladman wrote:
    There's no reason we know of the mount relay exploit shouldn't work for allied units, so in principle even with move 0 Ossomer could mount a unipegataur and escape. I don't actually expect that to happen in the press of battle, this is pretty clearly still a fight Jetstone can't afford to dink around with while playing with their deployment, so I expect he goes down fighting or perhaps turns the tide enough to retake the city, but it's a possibility.


    Thanks for the reminder. I forgot the relay.

    However, Ossomer rode the Carpet, which is a Magic Item. Are we certain that it operates under the same rules as riding a mount?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:18 am 
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    Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
    the question of city zones is still up in the air (and who owns the city now - Jetstone/GK/contested) - as it were. If the city doesn't count as Jetstones anymore and he was stuck in the airspace with no move and got put on something with move remaining (like a Peguni) could it carry him down to the garrison or some other part of the city? Or would he be left floating at the zone boundary? If it does still count as Jetstone's I guess he would be free to move around now the city now.


    My guess is that the city is still (barely) Jetstone. I base this on the Portal discussion a while back. The Portal was supposed to close because Spacerock would lose capital status with the death of the King, but the implication was, it would be the death of the King that closed the portal. I also base this on the fact that some part of Spacerock (where Trem is) is still in Jetstone control. I think that part is garrison or such.

    teratorn wrote:
    Ossomer's best course of action is croaking the dwagons in the Atrium. He needs to stack with the dittomancer and the archers, giving them his huge bonus, and target the dwagons at close range. The dwagons can't do a thing to retaliate, and the surviving archons may decide not intervene.


    Attacking certainly makes sense. This battle is no longer about Slately making a desperate last stand; with Wanda out of the picture, there's a very very good chance Jetstone gets to keep Spacerock. I don't know how many Dwagons a mere two low level archers can croak, but well placed arrows can certainly be nasty.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:52 am 
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    0beron wrote:
    OH! I just realized that Cubbins' real-world reference may save him!
    Cubbins Wiki Page points out that the Dr. Suess character Cubbins is based on was saved from being thrown off a tower because his King admired his hat!
    Call me desperate, but I wonder if this means Slately/Ossomer might rescue him :)

    Also, if only this update had the "See the comic without text bubbles" Cubbins would totally have a new avatar on his wiki page.


    I don't think that this idea is desperate at all. Seems to me exactly like the sort of thing slately would do. Remember hes trying to become the 'warrior king' now after seeing the error of his ways. Watching his caster produce this huge attack seems like something that would provoke him into going to save him. Or alternatively, order the newly turned Osimer to get cubbins onto the carpet.

    additionally this would make a lot of sense given Rob's sense of parody and real-life vs erf-life background.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:37 am 
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    Kreistor wrote:
    Saladman wrote:
    There's no reason we know of the mount relay exploit shouldn't work for allied units, so in principle even with move 0 Ossomer could mount a unipegataur and escape. I don't actually expect that to happen in the press of battle, this is pretty clearly still a fight Jetstone can't afford to dink around with while playing with their deployment, so I expect he goes down fighting or perhaps turns the tide enough to retake the city, but it's a possibility.


    Thanks for the reminder. I forgot the relay.

    However, Ossomer rode the Carpet, which is a Magic Item. Are we certain that it operates under the same rules as riding a mount?


    It would seem to. Back in Ye Olde Days of the Dragon Donut, Ansom was riding that thing all over the place. And I doubt he has as much personal Move as he used gallivanting around with Vinny and Jillian. Vinny...actually, there's an idea. I bet you that the carpet doesn't count as a mount; rather, as an item it gives a unit both the flying special and extra Move while he's on it, making him comparable to a Transylvitan Warlord (minus the bats).

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:44 am 
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    happyturtle wrote:
    @ Ossomer's Turning: I think it's based on the unknowable Loyalty stat. Ansom got decrypted far from home, immediately promoted to Warlord, and got to take the lead in conquering city after city. He had been treated well, plus been exposed to Wanda and the pliers for many turns. Compare to Ossomer, who was turned, immediately forced to betray everything he knew about his city's defences, sent on a fake parley to speak to his own father and brother, had his side behave dishonourably by attacking during parley, left to do nothing while the battle was going on except observe, and then witness Countess Artemis's powerful act of valour. By the time all of this was done, he wanted to turn, he just couldn't resist the pliers. Then the pliers were taken from the hex and he got another saving throw.


    I view the pliers as imposing the love of Wanda on the decrypted but letting everything else on their character just as before, and then acting like a suggestion spell. Like Jillian before, decrypted will not hurt the one they love (Wanda) unless they are forced to do something they can not rationalize. In this case was facing his father that he also loved, the decision made easier since Wanda wasn't in the hex and as such not in immediate danger. Ossomer never cared about the pliers, titanic mandate, nor royalty, so he didn't have the subterfuge Ansom had, although I would have liked to see Ansom's reaction if Wanda had asked him to croak Ossomer instead of giving the order to Sylvia.

    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    I don't know how many Dwagons a mere two low level archers can croak, but well placed arrows can certainly be nasty.

    If Slately promotes Ossomer to overlord and they stack with him they'd have a huge bonus, their arrows like cannon balls, a bit like bites from bats are so much worse if they're in Caesar's stack.

    I'm not sure Jetstone can win but things can get so bad that Parson decides not to risk the only warlord with decent bonus he has (Sylvia) and the archons escaping the attack from the tower. He may order Sylvia to join Antium's forces and abandon the dwagons. We can get a sort of stalemate, Ossomer having secured his father survival won't risk dying for it would be bad for his side, Parson trying to cut his losses.

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