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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:47 am 
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@ Cubbins: It's been stated that Towers give a bonus to spellcasters, and Jillian said (or thought, during a text update) that the only reason she had left Vanna (linked, and therefore vulnerable) in the Tower was because of the bonus. (sorry, too tired to go looking for citations). So while Pop a Cap isn't as powerful a spell as Kingworld, and probably could have been cast outside the Tower, it's going to be a lot more effective from in the Tower with the bonus. Also, part of it may have been the Tower Defenses, which hadn't been used yet (if I'm remembering correctly). It's possible there has to be a spellcaster to set those off.

@ Ossomer's Turning: I think it's based on the unknowable Loyalty stat. Ansom got decrypted far from home, immediately promoted to Warlord, and got to take the lead in conquering city after city. He had been treated well, plus been exposed to Wanda and the pliers for many turns. Compare to Ossomer, who was turned, immediately forced to betray everything he knew about his city's defences, sent on a fake parley to speak to his own father and brother, had his side behave dishonourably by attacking during parley, left to do nothing while the battle was going on except observe, and then witness Countess Artemis's powerful act of valour. By the time all of this was done, he wanted to turn, he just couldn't resist the pliers. Then the pliers were taken from the hex and he got another saving throw. The callous way he'd been treated kept him from developing any genuine Loyalty to Wanda, and the only thing holding him was the pliers. Maybe the dwagons would Turn against Stanley if he forced them to eat vegetables, refused to let them go into battle, called them dragons, and in general, treated them un-dwagony? I don't think the decrypted troops who've been with Wanda for multiple Turns are at risk (except Ansom, who will soon have a Turnamancer working on him), and the lower level Jetstone troops who were decrypted this turn have been kept busy fighting, not given time to brood while speaking to their family.

The other possibility is that anyone decrypted this Turn is back to Jetstone livery once the pliers are removed from the hex, but I don't like that answer. Wanda only saw it happen to Ossomer, and it also means all the emotional factors, such as Artemis's fall, weren't applicable. Ansom insisted that decrypted are alive, and if Ossomer's turning is due to what he saw and experienced, rather than just 'oops, moved the artefact out of the hex before turn's end' then it diminishes that, and makes it a game mechanic rather than a decision he was trying, as a living person rather than an abomination, to make.

@ Issue 3: I don't think there will be a time skip. I think the entire issue will take place this Turn. Marie predicted she and Janis stacking with Parson to go for the Portal, which really needs to be seen on screen. Plus a lot of other things happening this Turn that change everything. Just the fact that decrypted can be Turned back is a big one, but I got the impression she was predicting a lot more than that. Rob said on Facebook there will be a RL break though. Sad, but understandable.

@ Tramenis: My hope is that he'll be captured and healed (not decrypted) by Gobwin Knob, because I'd love to see him and Parson facing off to each other. He's much more interesting as an antagonist to Parson than he would be as a decrypted ally.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:57 am 
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    Atomic wrote:
    Swodaems wrote:
    Sorry to nitpick, but there is evidence saying that Archons can see thru foolamancy.
    No need to be sorry, but you're kinda wrong... Archons can see through Foolamancy, but that doesn't mean that they always do see through Foolamancy.

    Vinny states that the Transylvitian Warlords have a chance to see through each, individual, veil. 30 Dwagons x 11 Warlords = about 300 chances to spot the incoming units.
    Jillian says that units can probably detect them. Those units are either a Foolamancer, an Archon, or a lucky/ smart Warlord.


    My take on those quotes:

    In the first link, Vinny is talking about the Transylvito Warlords and Jillian having a chance to see through Foolamancy. The Archons were with Ansom at the time.

    In the second link, Jillian isn't saying that an Archon could probably detect them. She's saying that probably only an Archon, Foolamancer, or lucky/smart Warlord could detect them. That is, she feels that no other unit type is a consideration there.

    As overpowered as it potentially is, all the quotes to date support the implication that Archons see right through Foolamancy.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:05 am 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
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    Lamech wrote:
    badninja wrote:
    Nice ending to part 2, now comes the grand finally! I am not willing to write off Cubbins just yet he may have a "exit stage left" ability/spell and survive but you never know. Superb way to end the issue Rob!

    I'm sure he'll be fine. In fact, I think he'll get a new shiny bonus. And need to eat less. And some new colors too! He'll be better than fine.! :)


    That would imply that Wanda could get to him in time, or that someone would have the presence of mind to move the body with Wanda gone. That's a big assumption to make given present circumstances.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:07 pm 
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    drachefly wrote:
    My God, Kriestor.


    Indeed. That post of his before yours, I find that post amusing, it makes me laugh.


    Oh, I fully admit to being an asshole. I'm just surprised by how many people think it's a smart idea to provoke assholes.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:29 pm 
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    Sadly, though, one of the defining characteristics of assholiness is that they are provoked by just about anything . . . which is why the stock phrases of assholes in general includes "Hey, I was just . . .", immediately followed by "Well, HE started it!".

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:36 pm 
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    Kreistor wrote:
    Oh, I fully admit to being an asshole. I'm just surprised by how many people think it's a smart idea to provoke assholes.

    Provoking them anonymously over the internet? Why wouldn't it be a good idea?
    There's nothing they can do in return other than shake their hands in impotent rage and vent in long-winded rants that no one bothers to read, and there's always that slim chance that they'll pop a blood vessel in anger.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:43 pm 
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    Sieggy wrote:
    Sadly, though, one of the defining characteristics of assholiness is that they are provoked by just about anything . . . which is why the stock phrases of assholes in general includes "Hey, I was just . . .", immediately followed by "Well, HE started it!".


    So, non-assholes never use those phrases?

    "Hey, I was just..."

    No one can predict which of their posts will result in someone else taking issue. There are simply too many personalities and hot buttons out there to get hung up when someone takes issue with a post.

    "Well, HE started it!"

    Do you know what my definition of Arrogance is? "Arrogance is a word that you use to characterize someone that you want to victimize." And no, I'm not limiting that to the Internet. The problem with deciding someone is arrogant and therefore deserving of anything that happens to him, is that it gives permission to others to use abusive behavior that otherwise would be considered unacceptable. You turn your brain off and watch silently glorying in the arrogant person's suffering, not realizing that you're the one perpetrating abuse.

    I don't accept that prior behavior justifies third party abuse. That I may have been a bad boy in other threads does not justify attacking me in this thread by someone that did not participate and was not involved in previous threads. That kind of logic results in permanent and eternal abuse, and is simply another rationalization. Beware applying it in real life... and I have seen it and had to deal with it.

    Girl had a severe anger management problem, and kept bringing her retail job problems to our weekly gaming session... and transferring her anger to me. One week, I sat on the wall reading, not talking to anyone. Within 15 minutes, she was yelling at me, even while I continued to hold my book and speak to no one. Her future husband, when learning of the issue, rationalized it by "You must have said something the previous week." With that kind of thinking, he would permit her to use me as a punching bag any time she wanted, because there would always be something last week, or the week before, or... Anyway, I found a creative way to get it to stop without resorting to anger. (I used a similar position next gaming session to react like a wounded puppy and leave the session. She never conceived that I could act like a victim, and had to stop or realize she was the abuser... which she did for two years.)

    So be careful when you shut off your brain and assume one person is always responsible. You create a victim that way, by rationalizing the abuse as "deserved."

    MarbitChow wrote:
    Provoking them anonymously over the internet? Why wouldn't it be a good idea?
    There's nothing they can do in return other than shake their hands in impotent rage and vent in long-winded rants that no one bothers to read, and there's always that slim chance that they'll pop a blood vessel in anger.


    I post in amusement, MarbitChow, not anger, which is how I stay out of Flame Wars. I've seen it all, and faced far more vile people than you'll find here. The mental gymnastics some people use to rationalize prejudice or even criminal behavior is fascinating. This place is, ultimately, just practice for the Real Deal where winning matters.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:42 pm 
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    Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
    I think it is just a yellow ball, commonly used in magic shows for juggling, appearing in the mouth, being made disappear etc (since all the other things are items associated with stage magicians - rabbits, doves, scarves, the saw - only thing missing is some playing cards).


    The saw being a standard prop for the "Cut the lady in half" trick.
    Of course, other magicians usually consider the trick poorly done if the magician can't put the lady back together at the end of the trick....

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:26 am 
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    I'll join the crowd that thinks Cubbins is setting off the tower defenses. When Wanda sets off the tower defenses in book 1 (link} it looks like she channeled the spells using her body as a conduit. I imagine Cubbins is doing something similar, possibly adding his last juice to the tower spells, which probably already contains spells he previously cast if the killer bunnies are any indication.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:19 am 
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    abb3w wrote:
    Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
    I think it is just a yellow ball, commonly used in magic shows for juggling, appearing in the mouth, being made disappear etc (since all the other things are items associated with stage magicians - rabbits, doves, scarves, the saw - only thing missing is some playing cards).


    The saw being a standard prop for the "Cut the lady in half" trick.
    Of course, other magicians usually consider the trick poorly done if the magician can't put the lady back together at the end of the trick....


    I imagine a Earth stage magician devising a convincing illusion that they had an assistant, and then they cut this illusory assistant in two, and then they get in a lot of trouble when they can't restore the nonexistent assistant.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:06 am 
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    happyturtle wrote:
    @ Issue 3: I don't think there will be a time skip...

    @ Tramenis: My hope is that he'll be captured and healed (not decrypted) by Gobwin Knob, because I'd love to see him and Parson facing off to each other. He's much more interesting as an antagonist to Parson than he would be as a decrypted ally.



    I'm also sure there won't be a time skip. A recap, sure. But events will pick up exactly where they are now. Of course, over the internet, the recap will take 4-5 pages and therefore about as many months before we see any real progress in the plot. Also, I bet Rob and Xin will take a break until after the holidays, so... Aprilish before we see anything new.

    As for Tramennis, Jetstone is not out yet. Pierce, the Healomancer, is in the air, and Cubbins just nuked a big part of GK's current air force in Spacerock. I'm certain Slately will order Pierce to heal Tram and he'll be fine. I'm pretty certain Slately is still toast though. Ossomer, I can't decide.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:51 am 
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    warriortribble wrote:
    I'll join the crowd that thinks Cubbins is setting off the tower defenses. When Wanda sets off the tower defenses in book 1 (link} it looks like she channeled the spells using her body as a conduit. I imagine Cubbins is doing something similar, possibly adding his last juice to the tower spells, which probably already contains spells he previously cast if the killer bunnies are any indication.


    Or maybe the Tower Defences are sort of stored juice that takes form according to the Caster that sets them off?

    *random guess* *imagines moneymancer setting it off to have flying schmuckers that bludgeon the enemy like stones*

    Even if it wasn't the Tower Defences though, the bonus he got from being in the Tower had to have helped. But I think the Defences were part of it too. Stately just wasn't willing to sacrifice one of his Casters to stay behind and set them off, but Cubbins' Duty made him do it.

    When you go back to page 73, you can see him saluting, before the text update. I didn't see it until I went back. v.v

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:06 pm 
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    @ Art... excellent as always!

    @ Comic... Well, that spell was unexpectedly beefy (looking)... but I'm guessing that it only served to turn a GK loss into a GK rout.

    @ Raging... I'm with ya on this one, Kriestor! I recommend waiting longer to defend yourself in the future. It's more meaningful when someone else points out the BS of people who are attacking you. However, it is nice that you've already made most of the points I was going to, so now I can just +1 your novella.

    Atomic, your post read (to my skimming) as pure rhetoric with some very rude turns of phrase. Rhetorical turns are fine when you're pandering to the crowd, but being needlessly rude also makes the crowd turn against you.

    I usually find myself disagreeing with Kriestor, but in this case (err... thread) I couldn't find any real fault with his logic (again at a skim).

    @Marbitchow... indeed the trolls and a**holes don't win when they shake their hands impotently on the internet... but it's still not a good idea to provoke them: your forums will just get diluted by fist shaking. Poking the trolls is something best saved for week two of waiting for the next update... when we've really exhausted what there is to talk about.

    @ Archon true-seeing... I'm with both sides on this one. The reading of that statement is as Kriestor implies, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if this is clarified later to mean just that they are good at seeing through veils relative to most units. It would be no more story-inconsistent than the clarification of "no casting off turn."

    @Drachefly's very early point... I'm pretty sure we've seen a fair bit of Erfer innards already... if I read your comment correctly!:
    http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -05-14.jpg ............ General Ford's leg
    http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -12-31.jpg ............ Antium's side and leg
    The book 1 dwagons... and I thought there was a wounded twoll at some point too, but I don't recall.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:52 pm 
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    It looks to me like the magical rune-stuff is the unused tower defenses leaking out of holes in the falling tower. The rune-stuff swirls around with Cubbins' magic as it hits the archons, but it definitely originates from different points than the supernova that Cubbins has become.

    So, analyzing the imagery, I fall in with the folks who think Cubbins is harnessing the tower's stored magic as best he can. I also think Cubbins is glowing too brightly too survive, but I've got less confidence about that.

    Does anyone know what all those little runes are?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:55 pm 
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    effataigus wrote:
    General Ford's leg


    Wow, good catch! That's tiny. I had thought he just had his leg bent.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:12 pm 
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    Awesome page, nice finisher to the issue.



    On a side note, it's mostly good fun to visit the forum to read other people's analysis of the story and the Erf world in general..
    ...the shit thing is having to wade through countless pointless posts of people arguing about things which are completely unrelated to the story.

    To all of you who seem intent on promoting your own self-indulgent righteousness - Get a grip people. This is not about you, this is about Erfworld. All you are achieving is the creation of an infested forum that no-one will enjoy or feel comfortable sharing their points of interest regarding the story and characters.

    Don't be a dick.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:39 pm 
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    effataigus wrote:
    @ Raging... I'm with ya on this one, Kriestor! I recommend waiting longer to defend yourself in the future. It's more meaningful when someone else points out the BS of people who are attacking you. However, it is nice that you've already made most of the points I was going to, so now I can just +1 your novella.


    It takes a lot of bravery to come in on my side in these things. And I certainly appreciate the support. Thank you.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:05 pm 
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    happyturtle wrote:
    Or maybe the Tower Defences are sort of stored juice that takes form according to the Caster that sets them off?


    That seems to be pretty clearly indicated here ("Wanda said she used up our air defense spells because the air group is going after Fearless Leader." -- even if the second half of that statement is, shall we say, true only from a certain point of view, the first half seems fairly straightforward -- no point being less than completely honest about something that could be easily checked.)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:51 pm 
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    KiltedNinja wrote:
    Awesome page, nice finisher to the issue.



    On a side note, it's mostly good fun to visit the forum to read other people's analysis of the story and the Erf world in general..
    ...the shit thing is having to wade through countless pointless posts of people arguing about things which are completely unrelated to the story.

    To all of you who seem intent on promoting your own self-indulgent righteousness - Get a grip people. This is not about you, this is about Erfworld. All you are achieving is the creation of an infested forum that no-one will enjoy or feel comfortable sharing their points of interest regarding the story and characters.

    Don't be a dick.



    I've been inactive on these forums for quite a while now, mostly because i've been busy with school and other stuff. But i have to come back to say you hit the arken nail on the head here =P I couldn't agree more.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 74
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:18 pm 
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    Regarding Cubbins' magic, I think Kriestor hit the mark on this one. Hat Magic is a disciple of Stagemancy which contains all 3 elements of magic, including Matter. In the same way that a Dollamancer can create a unit, Cubbins' rabbits may very well continue their existence even if Cubbins himself fall.


    Ambug666 wrote:
    M.A.D wrote:
    Also, let's see, a parody character, some pun on Popcap, and... end of issue? o.O

    I suspect it was a pun on popping a cap in someone, ie shooting them.

    Sharik wrote:
    Popcap is the company that made Plants Vs. Zombies. Plants Vs. Zombies is a tower defense game, wherein you attempt to fend off the undead.


    In the language of Erf, "pop a cap" also means "make a hat", right?

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