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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 73
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:24 pm 
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arin wrote:
It's also worth mentioning, although it's probably just an art oversight, that we don't actually SEE the Arkenpliers on Wanda at all on this page. Are we sure they made the trip with her?

They're resizable. She may have shrunk them down to make them easier to carry securely.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 73
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:13 am 
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    This might not entirely be a bad thing, it'll probably mean a total wipe for the units in the city but major damage has been dealt to jetstone, they're hurting financially and in numbers now, if he can get an emotionally broken Wanda on his side I wouldn't be surprised if Charlie tossed his fascade aside and moved against everyone with a massive archon backed FAQ army led by Jullian and Ansom. There really isn't anyone else left with a decent fighting force outside of what GK has left over and their still being renewed air force. The cat will finally be out of the bag and everyone can focus on their true enemy, the puppet master who has likely been the cause of a lot of their misery for perhaps centuries (in Erf time)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 73
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:38 am 
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    The Jawa mages are the guys from Magicka, the game, if nobody's pointed it out yet. Guess Rob played it at some point, or something.


    What this says to me is that either Decrypted are capable of turning, or that Wanda's physical presence strengthens her control...

    That second possibility seems the most likely to me. I'd bet that Wanda's physical presence grants a significant effective Loyalty bonus to all her decrypted troops; her still being in the area may have been what made Ansom immune to Turnamancy, for example.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 73
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:57 am 
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    Sallo wrote:
    Wow! What a great comic.
    Also very happy to see Parson get another swear off.

    Jack's comment about Sizemore being able to create a new unit is pure gold!


    So--- To erflings is defecation natural Stuffamancy, or just natural Fabrication?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 73
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:45 am 
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    ThatOneMoogle wrote:
    Sieggy wrote:

    Edit: Who's the figure up in the right corner in the last panel, on the Unipeg wearing what appears appears to be a blue Phrygian cap . . ?


    A blue what?


    Phyrgian cap. A cloth cap in the shaep of a squat cone, soft enough that the peak usually sags. It's named after a place in Greece. When red, it is called a liberty cap and was the symbol of leftwing radicalism from about 1750 to 1850. There's one of those in the coat of arms of the US army.

    Quote:
    ETA: More specifically, on the dude riding the Unipeg: He's Hawkeye Pierce, Alan Alda's character from the old M*A*S*H TV show. The martini should have tipped me off. Likely a healamancer, given his medical status as chief surgeon in the show.


    Yes, that was noted and commented on back when he was first introduced. They even call him Pierce. And he specifically notes that his drink is a mixture of alcohol and healing potion.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 73
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:11 am 
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    Brucester wrote:
    vintermann wrote:
    If the pliers don't reach outside the MK, it could very well be that more decrypted than Ossomer are free ... it could even be all the currently decrypted. Wouldn't that be fun?


    My money is on this one. The Magic Kingdom is a place where casters are summoned from, or return to. It's outside the side - it's outside the game. Effectively a caster in the MK is *not in play*. Therefore magics employed in the MK do not affect the outside world.


    Heh. I like this.

    GM: The thinkers seem to be, er, thinking about your proposal, but they still won't let you by. The extra predictamancers aren't close enough yet to help. Oh, and in Spacerock, the cracks in the walls of the tower now extend all the way.

    Gobwin Knob Player: Boop this! I'm sending Jack and Wanda through the portal. Jack has enough spell points left for a simple misdirection, he'll use that to get them past the thinkers.

    GM: Done. Marie seems very happy to see Wanda, albeit the rest of the peace faction seems a little appalled. By the way, turn the Pliers card over, it is no longer affecting anything.

    Jetstone Player: Really? I call for a Loyalty check on Ossamer. I'm exerting Slately's Leadership.

    GM: Roll it.

    GK Player: Double Boop!

    GM: Wanda shudders in horror as she feels Ossamer change sides. The skulls disappear from his armor and are replaced by radishes.

    JS Player: Yes! I'll take back that character sheet now. Come to Papa! or i guess in this case it's come back to Papa! Ah, i see you left him his blasting bracer, this will be very useful.

    GM: The tower is still crumbling. In fact some of your retainers are now falling over the side.


    JS Player: Right. Time to go. Unipegasquad: up!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 73
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:38 am 
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    My god, Rob, you are amazing when you are not forced to recap and do exposition.

    We have had confirmation that portals can decapitate, though that is not what happened.

    We have Wanda meeting up with her old mentor and a few critical words with each other. How much did that woman see back when they were in Faq?

    We have even more Predictamancer units slowly showing themselves right next to the Thinkamancers while they are all distracted.

    And now we have confirmation. Units ARE re-popped, and have actual loyalty and can change sides! This changes everything! Now I can't help but wonder what Charlie will think of this turn of events...

    Not to mention what Wanda will think of this turn of events.

    Not to mention Slately's thoughts of his son finally turning back to Jetstone while the charge is on, and what will happen when Wanda sets foot back inside Jetstone, if she does.

    Damn Rob, anyone who says you cannot do a plot twist even the devil himself cannot see coming, they are lying.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 73
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:06 am 
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    Um, has anyone suggested why Wanda traveled through the portal when she didn't need to retreat? I'm searching for her rationale, but it eludes me.

    -------------------

    arin wrote:
    Six - Parson's intentions aside, Jack and Wanda just officially became the first units in Erfworld history to make use of an enemy-controlled portal (albeit to withdraw rather than invade, but still).


    Oh, duh, I get that part now. *slaps his forehead* THAT'S why Jack and Wanda snuck through instead of just walking by. They were preserving the peace on a technicality. No one sees them use the portal, no foul.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 73
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:01 pm 
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    I think Wanda entered the portal for the same reason as Jack. They wanted to meet Parson, but it seemed unlikely to happen on the other side of the portal, so the entered the Magic Kingdom. The only thing stopping Wanda from attacking Jetstone is her desire to consult with Parson before attacking. If he cannot reach her, it makes sense for her to try and reach him.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 73
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:03 pm 
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    Tathar wrote:
    ThatOneMoogle wrote:
    Also: I think it's too soon to assume there's a distance limit on the effects of the Arkenpliers, though it is a reasonable theory given that Ossomer only turned after Wanda was removed from his hex.

    Have we seen Decrypted at any point in the story without Wanda in their hex? If not, one might wonder if the decrypted need Wanda with them in order to stay loyal to their side.


    Ansom. Though in his case, the fact that he couldn't be turned seemed to be more of a matter of free will trumping turnamancy.

    Ossomer turning seems to also be a matter of free will trumping the pliers' "turnamancy" though I'm not sure why it would take so long to happen. We'll just have to wait and see.



    Just another thought: Ansom had been a Decrypted for many turns before Jillian captured (and tried to turn) him. Ossomer was made Decrypted just this turn. Resistance to "re-turning"(*) a Decrypted may depend in part on the length of time they've been Decrypted. Ansom has had lots of time to be indoctrinated by Wanda and the 'Pliers. Ossomer has not and was also immediately placed under a lot of stress. His sense of honor greatly offended, and now his former king and father is dissing him pretty hard, right where it hurts too. Ossomer has been feeling "out of place" for a while now. I think there's something to all this.


    (*) Re-turn, return. Get it? :) When you re-turn a unit, they return to your side.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 73
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:02 pm 
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    Most people think this is the end for the GK units in Jetstone but, since Sylvia is leading them, at the very least she will be the last one standing. <sigh>

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 73
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:22 pm 
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    Vorteks wrote:
    Squall83 wrote:
    So apparently there's a distance limit to decryption: The farther you go away from them, the less their loyalty to you. But I don't think Sylvia will turn because she enjoys fighting for GK, while Ossomer never did.

    Interestingly Wanda still seems to be able to look through Ossomer's eyes. So what exactly is he now?


    I'm not sure about the assumptions here. Ossomer's been showing signs of dissatisfaction/turning for a while. I think the tower collapsing was just the straw that broke the camel's back. The "No! My family! My city!" emotion he was feeling was enough to push him over the edge. I'm guessing Wanda's proximity wasn't a factor.


    I'd probably say it's somewhere in between. We know that being in the same hex with wanda gives decrypted units bonuses; I'm guessing that there's probably a hidden bonus to Loyalty as well as everything else. So once she left the hex, his Loyalty went down a little; just enough so he could turn.

    Doesn't mean that everyone is going to turn.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 73
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:41 pm 
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    Someone needs to clip Ossamer out of that last panel and make a "this avatar has just become TOTALLY AWSOME!" picture.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 73
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:31 pm 
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    Dr Pepper wrote:
    Someone needs to clip Ossamer out of that last panel and make a "this avatar has just become TOTALLY AWSOME!" picture.


    Image

    Something like this?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 73
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:41 am 
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    you know i actually missed on the first read the radish/new look indicating ossomer had turned, or undecrypted, or whatever.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 73
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:55 am 
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    YyyyAAAARRRRRGHH! My eyes! WTF are those fonts?!

    Anyway, here's a nigh pixel-perfect removal of the background

    Image

    so that you can supply your own, along with the eyesore text of your desire. Which I plan to do myself, soon enough.

    (Yes, that's a PNG with transparency. Import it in some layered editor, like Photoshop, put any background in a layer under it, and text in a layer over it, and done! Well ok, you may want to crop the image if you just want Oss in the picture, as opposed to the now empty panel.

    Edges are a bit rough, sorry. But you'll need to resize this to avatar size anyway, so the effect will disappear.)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 73
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:27 am 
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    Kenlin Bros wrote:
    Dr Pepper wrote:
    Someone needs to clip Ossamer out of that last panel and make a "this avatar has just become TOTALLY AWSOME!" picture.


    Image

    Something like this?


    Yes!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 73
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:27 am 
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    It's been said, but I wanted to add my vote to the "Cubbins is saluting" camp. That was my first impression on reading, and it holds up to a second look. So apparently he's going down with the tower. Since Ace is clearly holding out his hand, hopelessly from too far away, it looks like Ace is going to lose his only friend and doubtless become a thorn in the side of GK and Parson. No decrypted Ace Hardware + Parson power-gaming for us.

    I do think they'd do better to dismount a warlord and save a caster, but there likely isn't time with the tower actually falling, and Pierce was told to mount all top units while they worked.


    This is an awesome panel. And at risk of reviving an old argument, I do think it redeems some of the slower panels before it. You can't have the twist or the payoff without the setup, and it'll read faster printed in any case.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 73
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:45 am 
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    Saladman wrote:
    It's been said, but I wanted to add my vote to the "Cubbins is saluting" camp. That was my first impression on reading, and it holds up to a second look. So apparently he's going down with the tower. Since Ace is clearly holding out his hand, hopelessly from too far away, it looks like Ace is going to lose his only friend and doubtless become a thorn in the side of GK and Parson. No decrypted Ace Hardware + Parson power-gaming for us.

    I do think they'd do better to dismount a warlord and save a caster, but there likely isn't time with the tower actually falling, and Pierce was told to mount all top units while they worked.


    This is an awesome panel. And at risk of reviving an old argument, I do think it redeems some of the slower panels before it. You can't have the twist or the payoff without the setup, and it'll read faster printed in any case.


    Ossomer can catch him now: the carpet can hold two (but maybe only unrolled) - and I doubt Cubbins weighs more than Jillian, although Ossomer might counterbalance that by being heavier than Ansom. (of course, as its done by weight class - rather than kilos/pounds/etc - I assume Jillian + Ansom equals two normal units as would Cubbins + Ossomer).

    Am I correct in saying that the instant of the event when the tower fell was the same that the portal shut, and that the tumbling crashing damage and death will just, as far as the Erfrules are concerned, be the equivalent of a scripted animation?

    Regarding the 'pliers being ineffectual at distance: Ansom didn't turn when removed from their direct influence, so I think it is mostly Ossomer already low loyalty coupled with the lack of Wanda's direct bonus. The question is, if Ossomer and Wanda end up in the same hex once more, will her bonus be enough to re-re-turn him? At the opportune moment, of course :)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 73
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:06 am 
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    I'd guess not - he's no longer eligible for her bonuses, as he's not her unit anymore. But we'll see, won't we?

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