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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 71
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:43 pm 
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BLANDCorporatio wrote:
For two, (since this is a copyright vs. fair use), plausible half-informed guesses are better than nothing: at least, they are a starting point for a discussion.


No. This is the Law we're talking about. Get it wrong and it costs you money. Get it wronger, and you go to Prison. I won't name the comic, but a World of Warcraft fan comic got itself seriously hammered, because they didn't even do the basic, "Ask a Lawyer before you try to make money off of someone else's work product."

If it ever becomes important enough for me to need to know all the little details, I will ask a Lawyer, not you. And if you're smart, you will, too.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 71
     Post Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:57 pm 
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    Kriestor is correct, but so is Bland: they are starting points for discussion. Discussion among people who are not in fact the deciding parties in what gets put into the comic or not. Rob would be crazy to be reassured by that thread; fans would not.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 71
     Post Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:59 am 
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    Hmm, the last update came live shortly after the last thread pulled out the rubber gloves.

    So, who wants to hear my theory about how the man holding the groundhog is actually a shockeramancer?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 71
     Post Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:15 am 
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    That's not a groundhog, that's a weregroundhog, Phunky Phil . . . and given the expression on his face as opposed to the 'hur-de-hur-dur' look on the face of the guy carrying him, I'd be much more concerned about the furball than his means of conveyance. Perhaps he's actually related to Hamstard - it'd be great if he saw the crest on Parson's breastplate and recognized it as being that of a great Sarkamancer . . .

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 71
     Post Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:57 pm 
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    Sieggy wrote:
    Perhaps he's actually related to Hamstard - it'd be great if he saw the crest on Parson's breastplate and recognized it as being that of a great Sarkamancer . . .


    on the contrary...

    There is an ancient blood feud between Groundhogs and Hamsters. Long ago, the Groundhogs were the day time protectors of all Hamsters. While their legions of groundhogs protected them as they slumbered, the nocturnal Hamster society was able to focus all of their efforts on wild and intricate religious ceremonies. The Cult of the Whirling Wheel came to dominate all aspects of the Hamster society. In contrast, the Groundhogs casually worshipped numerous deities tied to Nature including fire, water, weather, and forests. Eventually the rigid religious beliefs of the Hamsters began to strain the relations between the two great societies.
    Hostilities started suddenly one night as several members of the grouchy fire druid Groundhogs could not sleep through all of the noise of the Hamsters religious lunar festival. The Groundhogs claimed the site as their own and told the Hamsters to "get off their lawn". The leader of the Cult of the Whirling Wheel, Grande Poohbah of the Wheel Rino, slipped into a religion induced rage at seeing the Hamster's most holy site being desecrated. There was a ferocious battle that followed days later on the plains of Kaytee and its intricate tunnel system that lasted for 4 lunar cycles. When the dust settled... the Groundhogs were beaten and scattered to the wind by the Hamster's superior organization and tactical advantage of night time raids. Only the weather worshipping druidic groundhogs survived the harsh winter and famine that followed the Great War.
    I suspect the Groundhog is not there to help Parson... but to eliminate him and gain revenge for the martyrs of all groundhog kind... or perhaps it has been too long since an update and I am going stir crazy.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 71
     Post Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:48 pm 
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    drachefly wrote:
    oslecamo2_temp wrote:
    drachefly wrote:
    Hrm. Some definitely have, but I thought that the cwap golem attack was at least natural shockamancy, and nothing about that was electrical.


    That was an offensive dirtmancy spell, since Sizemore was the one who "activated" the cwapgolem (when that previous cwap golem fought the marbits, he couldn't self-destruct by himself). It's hard to get more dirty than 4chan. Really, why do you all think shockmancy is the only school that would get offensive spells?


    Because the words he's saying are SHOCK sites!!!

    But now, reviewing, I see he was reading from a scroll, and the result was a set of electrical attacks. Okay, shockamancy has electrical signamancy in all known cases. Got it.


    Are you talking about p. 126? Those don't seem like electrical attacks. I do think they are shockamancy though, given the scroll - and the crap golem move could either be a follow-up dirtamancy spell or (more likely given the website theme) just the final kicker on the shockamancy spell, maybe a specific synergy kicker that only works if you have a crap golem.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 71
     Post Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:01 pm 
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    Yes, 126 (assuming that's the one where duke nozzle goes down) Well, they're yellow bolts. Not specifically electrical, but kind of visually reminiscent.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 71
     Post Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:13 pm 
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    I could have sworn I responded on the Shockmancy thing.

    http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F069.jpg

    Archons cast from a subtset of Foolamancy, Dollamancy, Thinkamancy,and Shockmancy. Now, it strikes me that only one of the three methods of killing dwagons might be electircal (top). The others are less so. There is disintegration in panel 2, not a particularly well known symptom of electrical attacks, and slicing-dicing in the bottom panel... and I can't for the life of me recall the last time electrical attacks sliced people like a roast.

    So, if you think these are not Shockmancy, care to tell me what they are? Because what they are not is electrical.


    Tunramancy relies on more than one definition of "Turn" -- converting Units, and changing the nature of the Turn order. It is no stretch to reach beyond electrical shock for the "Shock" of Shockmancy's definition.

    Dictionary.com wrote:
    1.
    1. a sudden and violent blow or impact; collision.
    2. a sudden or violent disturbance or commotion: the shock of battle.
    3. a sudden or violent disturbance of the mind, emotions, or sensibilities: The burglary was a shock to her sense of security. The book provided a shock, nothing more.
    4. the cause of such a disturbance: The rebuke came as a shock.
    5. Pathology . a collapse of circulatory function, caused by severe injury, blood loss, or disease, and characterized by pallor, sweating, weak pulse, and very low blood pressure. Compare anaphylactic shock, cardiogenic shock, hypovolemic shock.


    "Electrical shock" isn't even listed separately. That's because it is a subset of 1. Shock is not inherently electrical, it is a violent blow from any type of force.

    All three of the Archon's moves conform to the definition of shock as presented, because electricity is not required. The effects are sudden and violent, conforming to definition 1 and 2. The effect they cause in observers is mental shock, so even that conforms.

    Anyway, sorry this was late. I thought I had posted it already.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 71
     Post Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:41 pm 
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    Kreistor wrote:
    Archons cast from a subtset of Foolamancy, Dollamancy, Thinkamancy,and Shockmancy. Now, it strikes me that only one of the three methods of killing dwagons might be electircal (top). The others are less so. There is disintegration in panel 2, not a particularly well known symptom of electrical attacks, and slicing-dicing in the bottom panel... and I can't for the life of me recall the last time electrical attacks sliced people like a roast.

    So, if you think these are not Shockmancy, care to tell me what they are? Because what they are not is electrical.

    2-You never watched cartoons? Someone touching an electric source/struck by lighting, then then their body being outlined by light showing up their skeleton and then everything crumbling to dust is a freaking classic.
    3-Dollmancy attack. Creates a razor-sharp piece of cloth that's used to slice the enemy in pieces. Also used in lots of shows, usually by martial puppet masters.

    Kreistor wrote:
    All three of the Archon's moves conform to the definition of shock as presented, because electricity is not required. The effects are sudden and violent, conforming to definition 1 and 2. The effect they cause in observers is mental shock, so even that conforms.

    Now you're just grasping for straws. You're sayng only shockmancy can produce sudden and violent effects?

    -Wanda raising thousands of units as decrypted. Not shocking?
    -Sizemore colapses a city. Not shocking?
    -Maggie explaining how Jillian could've taken the thinkmancy spell backslash and be suddenly rendered comatose or dead. Not shocking?
    -Sizemore and Wanda decrypt a volcano that makes the whole mountain crumble down while burning the royal coalition to a crisp. Clearly not shocking at all, no sir.

    Lots of other schools can produce" shocking" effects. Only shockmancy actualy produces electrical shocks.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 71
     Post Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:51 pm 
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    It's hardly restricted to electrical shocks, I expect you'll grant that at least, right?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 71
     Post Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:08 am 
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    I always took it as a pun, in that shockamancy can "shock" electrically or "shock" as in 'stun' or 'embarrass' or such. I think Flash is a shockamancy spell.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 71
     Post Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:24 am 
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    Kreistor wrote:
    If it ever becomes important enough for me to need to know all the little details, I will ask a Lawyer, not you.


    Which IS a very wise policy to take.

    But it didn't stop you from speculating that Beholders and Mind-flayers would be off-limits on grounds of possible trade-mark infringement, nor must it stop me from speculating that there's more to fair use than parody, and citing a specific example where this seems to have happened. Because at the moment neither of us is actually contemplating airing a show on TV or publishing a webcomic with other people's IP.

    effataigus wrote:
    Hmm, the last update came live shortly after the last thread pulled out the rubber gloves.

    So, who wants to hear my theory about how the man holding the groundhog is actually a shockeramancer?


    I don't get why that would qualify as "pulling the rubber gloves off". Shockeramancer? What's he doing, threatening to ram it down, ram it down, straight to the heart of this town, razing the place to the ground?

    oslecamo2_temp wrote:
    Now you're just grasping for straws. You're sayng only shockmancy can produce sudden and violent effects?


    Not at all. What they're saying is that Shockamancy can produce more than just electrical effects.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 71
     Post Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:06 am 
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    Not at all. What they're saying is that Shockamancy can produce more than just electrical effects.


    Based on what exactly? Claiming that any spell that produces a shock-awe effect is shockmancy is ridiculous. And we haven't seen anyhing more than electric effects from the spells that are definetely shockmancy. Even the Flashes are followed by glowing yellow lights.

    Also, some schools have it worst. The only thing croakmancy has done so far is producing uncroaked from corpses, and Wanda's mention of an headache spell, that's never used.

    Anyway, seems like new comic was put up while I was writing this!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 71
     Post Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:03 pm 
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    oslecamo2_temp wrote:
    2-You never watched cartoons? Someone touching an electric source/struck by lighting, then then their body being outlined by light showing up their skeleton and then everything crumbling to dust is a freaking classic.


    I can't recall many other "cartoony" spells, unless the caster was mentally busted at the time. It's an interesting proposal, but not consistent with spellcasting in this comic so far.

    Quote:
    3-Dollmancy attack. Creates a razor-sharp piece of cloth that's used to slice the enemy in pieces. Also used in lots of shows, usually by martial puppet masters.


    So far, there is no evidence of Dollamancy doing anything except:
    1) creating dolls
    2) creating magic items

    One thing about speculation like this: it can never be disproven, can it. We can go through the entire comic until it ends, and if Rob never says, "Dollamancy can't do that," somewhere, it will last forever.

    Quote:
    Now you're just grasping for straws. You're sayng only shockmancy can produce sudden and violent effects?


    No, I'm not. I just hadn't thought that far. You're right, it's too far. Perhaps spells to cause medical shock (which wasn't in my definition for some reason.. comes from blood loss), but not mental horror. Anyway, none of the effects required it, it was just something on the side, so removing it doesn't undermine my position.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 71
     Post Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:15 pm 
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    But it didn't stop you from speculating that Beholders and Mind-flayers would be off-limits on grounds of possible trade-mark infringement, nor must it stop me from speculating that there's more to fair use than parody, and citing a specific example where this seems to have happened. Because at the moment neither of us is actually contemplating airing a show on TV or publishing a webcomic with other people's IP.


    Not speculation. I took a single law course in University. I got the basics on Trademarks, Patents, and Copyrights. And I know enough to know that I don't know enough. Usually people say, "When in doubt, ask a Lawyer." To that I respond, "Even if you aren't in doubt, ask a Lawyer." Best thing that law course taught me. Actually did it once. Lawyer didn't even charge me for the consult.

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