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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:03 pm 
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Well, we can put together a pretty decent list of what Charlie wants:

1. He wants to kill or capture the decrypted Archons. We don't know precisely why, though he claims it's because they know his "secrets." It's also possible he wants a decrypted captive to test the limits of the Arkenpliers. He can't be obvious about this, because if Parson realized he wanted to kill or capture the decrypted Archons, he might start thinking why, and would probably question them until he determines whatever information it is that Charlie wants to keep from getting out.

2. He wants to stop Gobwin Knob, in the long run. He views them as a threat. One way of doing this, he's said, is to croak an Arkentool-user in order to undermine Stanley's philosophy. He stated as much to Parson. Obviously killing Wanda would stop them cold, but that currently doesn't seem very practical, unless something dramatic changes.

3. He wants Parson, either on his side or, failing that, removed from the equation entirely. There's no obvious way that he could do that at this point, though it's possible he just made an indirect attempt anyway.



We do know of one of his plots -- he's offered a bounty on the Archons, which serves both the first two goals to an extent (preserving Jetstone as a weapon to use against Gobwin Knob, and killing off the Archons themselves.) This could be the thing the Archons are worried about -- it seems very likely to kill some or all of them very shortly, after all. This way he gets what he wants without having to just give someone money for nothing or anything like that.

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     Post Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:09 pm 
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    Zeku wrote:
    I'll be the one to decide if I have made a mistake. If I delete my post, or edit it, or post My Little Pony, it will be at my sole discretion.

    I certainly won't be explaining my motives, or apologizing for them.

    We used to have a forum climate based entirely on the enjoyment of the comic, and respect for others, but over the months I've seen presumptuous people trickle in. Now, I see posts explaining someone's personal political views, insecure rants about who or what is right, turning a friendly discussion into an argument, and now this, "post counseling."
    A pleasure to meet you, Mr. Presumptuous! When did you trickle in?
    balder wrote:
    Real world political and religious discussion, in the context of Erfworld, is very much allowed.
    I have a rhetorical question for you. When your host says that a topic of discussion is allowed, and then you decide that it is "presumptuous", or in some other way not welcome to you (you didn't really come to a point on it, just threw it out there as a part of some sort of collection of pet peeves of yours), who is being presumptuous? You, or the person who is engaging in an allowed (a "very much allowed") discussion?

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     Post Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:21 pm 
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    Grimnir wrote:
    Left one is Rachel, and the the one to the right is Phoebe, no?
    I place them as Monica, Rachel, Phoebe. Rachel had that bob cut like the middle archon, and Phoebe was blonde and the right archon appears to be blond.

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     Post Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:05 pm 
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    Also Oberon, consider that Charlie is always taking the long view. You bet on the Healthy runner because unlike the lame, unshot he'll be able to race far longer, meaning you can bet on him far more times with better chance of return payouts, especially if your taking a percentage in the long term.

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     Post Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:19 pm 
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    Damnit, now I'm going to have to try and guess at what Zeku figured out.


    Charlie is... Parson from the future-past! So far in the future that it became an alternate past, which then wrapped around to the original past. He's trying to save himself from the upcoming hardships.

    That's gotta be it. :D


    (Spoiler: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/6/14/ )

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     Post Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:47 pm 
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    kagato23 wrote:
    Also Oberon, consider that Charlie is always taking the long view. You bet on the Healthy runner because unlike the lame, unshot he'll be able to race far longer, meaning you can bet on him far more times with better chance of return payouts, especially if your taking a percentage in the long term.


    This. Also, consider that Charlie seems to be extremely cautious and conservative in all his/her dealings. It doesn't strike me as the slightest bit unusual if Charlie would prefer a modest-but-certain profit over a huge-but-slightly-risky profit. What Charlie lacks in taking risks, he/she seems to make up for in having his/her hands in (apparently) pretty much every single pie on Erfworld.

    Beeskee wrote:
    Damnit, now I'm going to have to try and guess at what Zeku figured out.


    I'm really curious what Zeku figured out, too. But at the same time, I can't help but remember an obscure forum post from the middle of book one. It basically said "You know, Sizemore is said to be interested-but-unskilled in all forms of magic, while Wanda is skilled-but-uninterested in all forms of magic. I bet that at the end of the book, they're going to link up and form a superweapon that will wipe out the coalition. They'll probably even find a way to erupt the volcano that Gobwin Knob is built over!" While it was an interesting post, and I don't resent the author the slightest bit for their accuracy, I still wonder how much that post changed my expectations and reactions to the end of book one. :)

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     Post Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:58 pm 
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    Oberon wrote:
    0beron the avatar thief wrote:


    Technically, he's more like a username thief.

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     Post Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:12 pm 
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    Saela wrote:
    I'm really curious what Zeku figured out, too. But at the same time, I can't help but remember an obscure forum post from the middle of book one. It basically said "You know, Sizemore is said to be interested-but-unskilled in all forms of magic, while Wanda is skilled-but-uninterested in all forms of magic. I bet that at the end of the book, they're going to link up and form a superweapon that will wipe out the coalition. They'll probably even find a way to erupt the volcano that Gobwin Knob is built over!" While it was an interesting post, and I don't resent the author the slightest bit for their accuracy, I still wonder how much that post changed my expectations and reactions to the end of book one. :)


    Heh, I met Rob at a con once and he actually brought that up (well he said one person early on in book 1 guessed at a huge spoiler, I think he said it involved uncroaking the volcano) and said he was so glad it never caught on as a popular theory. Interesting to think how he reacts whenever we guess something right or when we're hilariously wrong.

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     Post Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:40 pm 
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    Hi

    New poster so be gentle!

    Just a thought - a lot of people have been mentioning "what could charlie do?" and someone else suggested a decapitation ie an attack on Stanley at the Knob.

    That could be possible - remember much earlier in one of the text updates Parson talking to the 'last' surviving Gobwin? His thinking that his elders may have been making a mistake in betraying this warlord.

    ok my crazy theory

    Spoiler: show
    Could it be that charlie made arrangements with the gobwins to betray stanley in return for survival but that became superflous when stanley looked like he was doomed anyway. Now that the Knob has become dangerous again he has reactivated that agreement (the penalty clauses must be spectacular) and they are going to do that.

    The upshot of all that could be the knob disbands leaving parson stranded in the MK and Wanda battling her hot love chick in a roll on book 3 finale.

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     Post Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:39 pm 
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    Oberon wrote:
    0beron the avatar thief wrote:
    We've seen pretty clearly that he doesn't want to DIRECTLY participate, but rather change circumstances in a way that "should" benefit whoever he's backing.

    GK has all those archons who can report that Charlie was linked with Vanna for the Kingworld (*ptui!*) spell. Not directly participating is right out the window now, as a useful position.


    Yes, but my point (which was albeit, in retrospect, poorly worded in my original post) is that he doesn't want to ATTACK directly. Rather he "meddles". Ending GK's turn isn't an attack, but rather a change of circumstances that put GK at a disadvantage.

    And also, as a side note, is the whole thief bit really necessary? It's not like I did it on purpose, I often use this screen-name ever since I played the namesake character in high school. We don't even have the same avatar, so it's not like people will mistake our posts.

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    Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

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     Post Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:46 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    And also, as a side note, is the whole thief bit really necessary? It's not like I did it on purpose, I often use this screen-name ever since I played the namesake character in high school. We don't even have the same avatar, so it's not like people will mistake our posts.


    Naah, don't worry. This is just Oberon's way of making light of the situation.

    Damageman wrote:
    Hi

    New poster so be gentle!


    What ever gave you the impression that we're otherwise? *halo emoticon*

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     Post Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:51 pm 
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    Naah, don't worry. This is just Oberon's way of making light of the situation.

    K, I'll take your word for it haha

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    GJC wrote:
    Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

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     Post Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:06 pm 
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    0beron wrote:
    And also, as a side note, is the whole thief bit really necessary? It's not like I did it on purpose, I often use this screen-name ever since I played the namesake character in high school. We don't even have the same avatar, so it's not like people will mistake our posts.


    Naah, don't worry. This is just Oberon's way of making light of the situation.

    Erm... the thief bit was from 0ber0n. I suppose it could be Oberon's sock puppet, but no way we can know for sure. Regardless 0ber0n is doing the exact same thing. 8-)

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     Post Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:52 pm 
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    Damageman wrote:
    Hi

    remember much earlier in one of the text updates Parson talking to the 'last' surviving Gobwin?


    Hobgobwin. They are two different species.

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     Post Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:58 pm 
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    I have to wonder, if Charlie was responsible for the gobwins betraying Saline, what's to stop him from using the giants he so helpfully recommended against Faq?


    0beron wrote:
    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    Naah, don't worry. This is just Oberon's way of making light of the situation.

    K, I'll take your word for it haha


    Don't worry, there's no chance we'll confuse the two of you. :D

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     Post Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:33 pm 
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    Beeskee wrote:
    I have to wonder, if Charlie was responsible for the gobwins betraying Saline, what's to stop him from using the giants he so helpfully recommended against Faq?

    I think its far more likely Stanely himself caused the revolt against Saline. Because back when Saline was in charge, GK wasn't important to Charlie. For that matter, GK was a ROYAL side back then, so if there even was a RCC back then, GK certainly wouldn't have been in their sights.
    If anyone was responsible for the gobwin revolt, it was likely a power-grab by Stanley. As far as we can tell, he never even told Saline about Faq, so the gobwin revolt might have been his attempt to take the side for himself, and the mission against Faq was his insurance that if the revolt failed, he could split off to a new side with his dwagons.

    Beeskee wrote:
    Don't worry, there's no chance we'll confuse the two of you. :D

    So I've gathered LOL

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     Post Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:46 pm 
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    That seems a bit beyond Stanley's capabilities to me, but I suppose it's possible. Though I thought I remembered reading that Stanley loved King Saline (not romantically, but like a father) since Saline promoted him up multiple times and then made him heir.

    We've only heard a couple sides of the story about what happened with the gobwins though, and I'm not sure how much more we'll learn. Saline can't comment on the matter and Charlie certainly isn't telling. It'll definitely be interesting if we do find out what really went down.

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     Post Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:28 pm 
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    While the "contingency planning" I mentioned does seem beyond Stanley, the "lust for power" seems very in keeping with his personality. His attitude toward his attunement is enough to suggest he may have "loved" Saline, but thought he was a weak leader fated to fall into the background. If he was behind the revolt, I can't imagine he would have ordered Saline croaked, maybe he hoped to force a surrender, or to force Saline to give him enough troops and schmuckers to start a new side.
    I agree we haven't heard enough detail/perspectives on that event though, so I look forward to discovering more if there is more to be learned. (It may simply not be relevant, and is supposed to be vague back-story)

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     Post Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:35 am 
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    0beron wrote:
    Beeskee wrote:
    I have to wonder, if Charlie was responsible for the gobwins betraying Saline, what's to stop him from using the giants he so helpfully recommended against Faq?

    I think its far more likely Stanely himself caused the revolt against Saline. Because back when Saline was in charge, GK wasn't important to Charlie


    I don't think so. Stanley loved combat. You see him grinning ear-to-ear every time he's in the thick of it. As a Warlord, that joy disappears. Add to that his Duty, and the fact he isn't Royal, and I don't think he could turn full traitor. For someone to overcome Duty, that person must be convinced the Side would be better with someone else as Ruler.

    On the other hand, there is another character available to organize the transfer of Power that would see Saline as a restriction to his Side's Power. I am speaking of Wanda, of course. She already killed one King (Banhamme, according to Stanley), and Saline wasn't about to go hunting Arkentools for her. She needed someone in power that she could manipulate, like Stanley. Funding the endeavor might be difficult, though, but that's the only roadblock and it's not a terribly difficult one to surmount.

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     Post Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:29 am 
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    Lamech wrote:
    Erm... the thief bit was from 0ber0n. I suppose it could be Oberon's sock puppet, but no way we can know for sure. Regardless 0ber0n is doing the exact same thing. 8-)


    Slander! Technically libel. This is how rumors get started, you know.

    Oberon wrote:
    0beron the avatar thief wrote:


    I merely clarified that any alleged thievery on 0beron's part would be related to their usernames, not avatars. With regard to avatars, the evidence would more greatly favor Oberon having stolen 0beron's avatar than the other way around. After all, at the moment Oberon possesses an avatar, and 0beron does not.

    And 0ber0n happens to be a family name with a rich history. It all started when my great-great-great-great-grandfather Obericus lamented having a name that ensured he would be in the middle whether alphabetical or reverse-alphabetical sequences were used... Later, grandpa 0bie, afflicted with a terrible case of 0CD, would change the family name to 0ber0n to make it more consistent without sacrificing the values that had defined Clan 0beron for nearly a century.

    And now you know.

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