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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 69
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:13 am 
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And we're back! I'm so happy to see Slately and the gang, and I can't describe the anticipation I'm feeling for... whatever is about to happen.

I'm really feeling for poor Oss too. So much pain... and what a terrible blast that last one was. And Slately is so close to the edge... I don't think it will slay the tower this time, but I almost have a feeling (hope) next strip begins with Oss catching his father and depositing him safely back on the tower (if he can). Come on Oss - free will! Free Will! Free Will!

And I do hope the Jetstone casters make it out ok. I like them as a group and personally think they will be more interesting not with GK. And I like how everything Ace is doing is being kept out of sight. I can't wait for Slately's big makeover reveal.

And great art, really good.

The.Healing.Mage wrote:
So Artemis did something after all. Good. I liked her. She had spunk. (Also, Slately is about to be the most bamf jetpack-helmet-lightsaber(purportedly)-caped king to ever fly out of a collapsing castle being attacked by Dwagons ridden by Decrypted. In Layman's terms, he's a king whose also a boba fett jedi knight fighting dragons ridden by zombies who are attacking his castle. There aren't WORDS for that kind of awesome.)

And the artwork is, as usual, above-and-beyond.


Heartily agree!

badninja wrote:
Wow could Oss. be ready to turn? So we go back a bit but now how much longer till Parson makes it to Jetstone? Could Stately detect when Jack used the portal as that would tip Parson's hand. All this back and forth is setting up a big final showdown? Final question how long, as in time, has elapsed since the battle began? Back in book one after one hour the party in TV had gotten deadly serious are we near that point yet?


Hard to say with the Wibbly-Wobbly Timey-Wimey nature of Erf. Up till now I've read it as - the TV war room party was in high spirits as Ansom appeared to be leading his siege to the bridge - they thought Oss and Trem could hold that there for the turn, long enough for Sammy to arrive and they had Jillian as a hidden bonus.

Then Ansom reveals he will dwagon rush the capital, Oss falls and it looks like game over and things get grim in the TV throne room (then not so grim when GK turn ends, then grim again when dwagons fall).

Kreistor wrote:
I could have done without this page. The art is definitely cool, it doesn't convey any new information. We knew Slately was having his equipment enhanced. We knew they suspected the Tower would fall. It shows that in making these things, the casters don't use spell words. which is a little bit of Mechanics, but hardly worth the page. And we knew that Decrypted believe themselves self-aware.

If this page was omitted, no one would notice the loss.


I think it is the perfect fit, pacing wise. It would, for me, have been a bit jarring to cut back from the MK to the tower falling or Slately jetting around already. It seems to me we have got to see these last couple of minutes for everyone, we know exactly where everyone is and what Slately is now up to.

Plus it shows Slately isn't up to speed with the situation on the ground. This could be setting up his revelation that Trem is in danger, or his words, combined with Artemis' sacrifice pushing Oss over the edge into a place no decrypted has ever gone before (and that I really want to see).

Hayes wrote:
I think we are learning not only that the Decrypted think of themselves as self-aware, but that they also have enough freedom to think of the word Noble with a capital letter, even though they are supposed to worship the Pliers.....I'm still wondering what the explanation for that freedom will be, since it seems pretty lacking in everyone else besides Ossomer...


I guess if the pliers don't interfere with thought patterns (just individual loyalty through some sort of love spell mind whammy) it should still be quite possible for a decrypted to see virtues, actions etc like that. Wriggly was still basically Wriggly for example.

For a decrypted though I kind of imagine an individual in a cult, who are a bit brainwashed and can't see how much the cult doesn't gel with their own principles/stances/etc. It is just when they can't justify or pretend or whatever anymore and have to start thinking outside the programming. Oss has been left hanging and is having to watch the side he is compelled to love the socks off (Wanda) act in ways he doesn't like while watching his former side (who he remembers liking or loving) act in a way he finds "good".

Fishman wrote:
I liked the way the "noble sacrifice" to halt the siege utimately amounts to nothing at the end, with the resuming of the BOOM. Shows what "noble" really is about: Futile, wasteful, and illogical.


Well it bought Slately and his helpers a little bit more time which might make a difference. And I'm not sure the alternative was any less futile, wasteful or illogical for Artemis - when you king in in direct danger of croaking an Erfworlder doesn't have the option of "retreat to fight another day". And if they do run/do nothing their goose is just as cooked when their king dies. All that would buy would be a few moments more of them being alive.

BakaGrappler wrote:
And I also get the idea that the new Predatory Slately is a giant A-Hole.


Come now, he didn't quibble in the slightest about handing over his cape and crown to non-royals casters. He seems to be making great leaps and bounds.

Plus I get the impression his asking Oss what is happening is a slip for him. He had no reason to talk to him, unless he wanted to (and since Oss is on the other side he shouldn't have been expecting a real answer).

Sieggy wrote:
I be happy! Gots mah Erf fix!! Now . . . which three lucky contestants get to play 'Say Hi! to the Archons!' Slately, maybe Pierce (who seems less than overjoyed at the prospect), and what Mystery Guest? And who's Elliott?


I can't help but think he intends to take all his casters with him. The tower is going to come down unless someone takes out the siege pretty much straight away, which he isn't planning to do.

Not knowing how many doubled unipegatuers there will be... hmm, Slately says "all top units", so I would think a few. And isn't Slately traveling by jetpack? Which would leave the three Unipegatuars for Ace, Cubbins and Pierce (damn it, Ace has got to break out his giant crossbow!). And a high level healomancer and dittomancer are guys I would want in my warband for keeping me alive and adding beneficial multipliers to things.

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And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 69
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:10 am 
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    Lamech wrote:
    And if the archons contact Parson for orders he'll say "take casters don't croak the king." I bet Ossomer can do both of his conflicting motives. Both protecting his father, and helping GK.


    The plan was to go for a decapitation strike against the King, though granted the situation has changed.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 69
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:30 am 
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    Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
    Sieggy wrote:
    I be happy! Gots mah Erf fix!! Now . . . which three lucky contestants get to play 'Say Hi! to the Archons!' Slately, maybe Pierce (who seems less than overjoyed at the prospect), and what Mystery Guest? And who's Elliott?


    I can't help but think he intends to take all his casters with him. The tower is going to come down unless someone takes out the siege pretty much straight away, which he isn't planning to do.

    Not knowing how many doubled unipegatuers there will be... hmm, Slately says "all top units", so I would think a few. And isn't Slately traveling by jetpack? Which would leave the three Unipegatuars for Ace, Cubbins and Pierce (damn it, Ace has got to break out his giant crossbow!). And a high level healomancer and dittomancer are guys I would want in my warband for keeping me alive and adding beneficial multipliers to things.

    It seems clear he's taking all the casters with him - Lloyd Elliott and Pierce are getting the unipegataurs ready and mounting all the top units (including, presumably, Elliott and Pierce). They're saving three for Slately, Cubbins and Ace. Slately doesn't seem the type to rely entirely on an untested technology - he'll be mounted, but with the jetpack as a failsafe in case anything happens to his mount. Ace is shielding his robes from shockamancy, and Cubbins is presumably shielding his crown from think/foolamancy, as anti-archon defenses.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 69
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:52 am 
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    In panel 6 by Ace's feet you can see the jetpack and what is presumably the new and improved scepter. Can anyone tell what it is?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 69
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:37 am 
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    Some neat stuff in this one to be sure, but I'm mostly with Kriestor. I'm not sure that this page will end up being necessary even without the text updates. Unless Artemis' gambit is a game changer in some way yet to be revealed, I'm having a hard time seeing how this update changes anything at all.

    Of course, I did learn a new phrase, and I haven't yet scoured the panel for foreshadowing (that wasn't already abundantly foreshadowed). This is to say I withhold judgement, but my first instincts agree with Kriestors... and I AM a fanboi.

    Also, the bonus pages of people fighting in book 1 don't add anything either, but I still enjoy them. Xin's art is usually awesome, but I think she kicked it up another notch for this one. The shot of Artemis' corpse, especially... somehow just speaks to tragedy. Bravo!

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    Last edited by effataigus on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 am, edited 239044 times in total.


    Last edited by effataigus on Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 69
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:38 am 
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    So if Ossomer turns back to Jetstone, then will he be heir again...? That could be interesting. A turned decrypted as ruler of the opposing side to GK?

    (you heard it here first! I hope!)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 69
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:43 am 
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    Jay wrote:
    So if Ossomer turns back to Jetstone, then will he be heir again...? That could be interesting. A turned decrypted as ruler of the opposing side to GK?

    (you heard it here first! I hope!)


    I think you should be proud of your neat idea even though it has come up on the forums before. If we only appreciate speculation that hasn't been posted before, then we should probably all just go home. For me with this site, it's about the process and the engagement, and creating ideas that are new to you demonstrates that!

    Now, if only scientific journals allowed people to publish after only reading the last couple of threads... :D

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    Last edited by effataigus on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 am, edited 239044 times in total.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 69
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:50 am 
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    Fishman wrote:
    I liked the way the "noble sacrifice" to halt the siege utimately amounts to nothing at the end, with the resuming of the BOOM. Shows what "noble" really is about: Futile, wasteful, and illogical.


    I'd dispute that it amounted to nothing, since Artemis' self-sacrifice bought time for the others, I'd dispute that it was wasteful, since it had a high chance of success, and I'd dispute that it was illogical, because the alternative was certain disaster. "Nobility", as Ossomer understands it, is self-sacrifice for the greater good (which, in this case, sadly happens to mean the good for Slately- gripe against that).

    Ok, that was the rational counter. The from-the-heart counter is remember the Alamo, if you're American. Or, <insert famous last stand from your history here>. You may have a different psych makeup than me, sure; I for one am moved to great respect for those who made such last stands.

    Survival is for rats and cockroaches anyway. Dinosaurs, Smilodons, Whales and anything awesome are doomed to die because that is the nature of the circle of life. (Btw., that was the irrational counter).


    The.Healing.Mage wrote:
    So Artemis did something after all. Good. I liked her. She had spunk. (Also, Slately is about to be the most bamf jetpack-helmet-lightsaber(purportedly)-caped king to ever fly out of a collapsing castle being attacked by Dwagons ridden by Decrypted. In Layman's terms, he's a king whose also a boba fett jedi knight fighting dragons ridden by zombies who are attacking his castle. There aren't WORDS for that kind of awesome.)


    Yes there are: "Slately is about to be the most bamf jetpack-helmet-lightsaber(purportedly)-caped king to ever fly out of a collapsing castle being attacked by Dwagons ridden by Decrypted. In Layman's terms, he's a king whose also a boba fett jedi knight fighting dragons ridden by zombies who are attacking his castle", for example, fit.

    BakaGrappler wrote:
    And I also get the idea that the new Predatory Slately is a giant A-Hole.


    Bawww, why is that Slately hate still around? The poor fella is acting fast with the cards he was dealt, and so far doesn't seem to act a boophole to his advisors (aka life-rafts at the moment).

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 69
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:13 am 
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    Sojiko wrote:
    There are a couple of interesting subtleties here, like showing the result of Artemis's gambit with "three quiet" replacing the third shock


    There… are… THREE… BOOMS!

    (in the first two rows)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 69
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:17 am 
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    Kreistor wrote:
    If this page was omitted, no one would notice the loss.


    You could always create your own webcomic. Then you could dole out the details at a pace that you consider acceptable. But this is Rob's story. Please let him tell it the way that he wants.

    Rob, the story is EXCELLENT!! And Xin, your artwork is STUNNING!! Thank you both for the effort and dedication you're putting into this project!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 69
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:26 am 
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    elrolfe wrote:
    You could always create your own webcomic. Then you could dole out the details at a pace that you consider acceptable. But this is Rob's story. Please let him tell it the way that he wants.


    And Transformers 3 was a great movie, and whoever thinks otherwise should go make their own movie or shut the fuck up.

    Totally correct.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 69
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:27 am 
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    badninja wrote:
    Wow could Oss. be ready to turn? So we go back a bit but now how much longer till Parson makes it to Jetstone? Could Stately detect when Jack used the portal as that would tip Parson's hand. All this back and forth is setting up a big final showdown? Final question how long, as in time, has elapsed since the battle began? Back in book one after one hour the party in TV had gotten deadly serious are we near that point yet?

    No way is Ossomer going to turn after the way his dad is treating him. It's clear that he loves his father, but it's also clear that his father doesn't share that feeling.

    I still think that we'll end up with an alliance between GK and Jetstone. Both CWs are at least open to the idea of world peace, too. It's already well-known for Parson, but see http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/LIAB_Text_15 for Tramennis. Also, don't forget that Tramennis is by nature a diplomat. We might end up seeing GK and Jetstone (and even the World Peace Squad and the GMTTA) fight it out against Charlie later. The pieces are there.

    Quote:
    "I just mean... I'm not a fool," said Tramennis, trying again to turn to face Antium more fully. "I take the world as I find it. But it's hard to accept this as the best of all possible worlds. And if it isn't, then why isn't it? Could the Titans do no better?"
    The Duke shook his head. "I don't know, Highness."
    "You know what I've always thought?" said Tramennis. "I've always suspected that perhaps it's up to us to improve upon it."
    "Improve...upon the Titans' work?" said the Duke dubiously. "Highness, we are the Titans' work."

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    Last edited by Tathar on Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 69
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:28 am 
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    Sieggy wrote:
    I be happy! Gots mah Erf fix!! Now . . . which three lucky contestants get to play 'Say Hi! to the Archons!' Slately, maybe Pierce (who seems less than overjoyed at the prospect), and what Mystery Guest? And who's Elliott?


    As soon as I thought about this, it seemed so obvious that I'm ashamed I didn't think of it sooner. Elliott has GOT to be Lloyd's twin!! :lol:

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 69
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:32 am 
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    There is not a single unit in the city who doesn't look miserably sad. Alas, Jetstone! Your time is come.

    How come the archers on the balcony haven't attacked Ossomer? And why hasn't Slately ordered the tower evacuated? When it falls, everything inside will die, giving Wanda all those units for free.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 69
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:36 am 
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    I think this page is necessary and significant primarily because it demonstrates the extent of Ossomer's disloyalty - he's giving potentially valuable tactical intelligence that he's under no obligation to offer to the ruler of the opposing side, just because he was asked. I would almost consider that a disbandable offence.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 69
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:08 am 
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    Let's suppose Slately stumbles and falls down due to the last attack. Then by saving his father Ossomer will have the opportunity to show us he's still capable of doing "powerful acts of valor".
    Edit: Oops, ninja'd.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 69
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:21 am 
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    Jemand wrote:
    Let's suppose Slately stumbles and falls down due to the last attack. Then by saving his father Ossomer will have the opportunity to show us he's still capable of doing "powerful acts of valor".
    Edit: Oops, ninja'd.

    That would be an even more disbandable offence. If he doesn't turn to Jetstone that instant, Wanda or Parson wouldn't hesitate to destroy him, or he might just auto-disband for breach of duty/loyalty.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 69
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:26 am 
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    The.Healing.Mage wrote:
    In Layman's terms, he's a king whose also a boba fett jedi knight fighting dragons ridden by zombies who are attacking his castle. There aren't WORDS for that kind of awesome.)


    This, combined with the new update today has changed a very bad morning into a great one. Thanks for making my day!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 69
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:35 am 
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    I think "Three Quite" can be a reference to Patrick Rothfus' "Name of the Wind" series (currently only 2 books of the three are done). But I think the more likely reference is the one already posted. There is Quite. Too Quite. And then Three Quiet.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 69
     Post Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:38 am 
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    Fishman wrote:
    I liked the way the "noble sacrifice" to halt the siege utimately amounts to nothing at the end, with the resuming of the BOOM. Shows what "noble" really is about: Futile, wasteful, and illogical.


    Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
    Well it bought Slately and his helpers a little bit more time which might make a difference. And I'm not sure the alternative was any less futile, wasteful or illogical for Artemis - when you king in in direct danger of croaking an Erfworlder doesn't have the option of "retreat to fight another day". And if they do run/do nothing their goose is just as cooked when their king dies. All that would buy would be a few moments more of them being alive.


    Artemis showed what nobility is supposed to be about in a way that Ansom never did. It's not about whether you face death; practically anybody on Erf can do that, and it seems that most of them are compelled to do so. It's about how you face it. Personal Nobility is very nuanced.

    It isn't that Artemis was forced to fight and die or hide and die. It's that she went in, overcoming desperation, fear for herself or even for the lives of her people, whom I'd say she cared about more than herself. Despite any very natural lack of confidence she could be expected to have, given her past, she LED them without hesitation. And she kept on task while watching, while counting the people closest to her die between her and the enemy. That's a whole other animal than charging in to die or ordering troops to do so.

    Ossomer, I reckon, knows the difference between Duty and Valor, and which one is more Noble in Erf by virtue of not coming preprogrammed in units.

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