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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 65
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:51 pm 
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Thomas60 wrote:
Speechless Janis got the hots for Parson?
...perhaps its a bit too milf-y, I could just draw some blushing cheeks on the 4th panel.

That isn't "the hots". Closer to starstruck, but also close to paranoia. She's called him here to burn down the world. And she can see it just around the corner. That isn't exactly sexy. Oh, also she cannot see his stats, I believe. That must just be weird to her.

I'm trying to figure out why no one here seems to consider that there can be more than 2 sides. It isn't just Charlie vs Parson. This becomes more and more clear with every high level character interaction. (those in the MK, those between leaders of cities)


Last edited by Spiky on Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 65
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:00 pm 
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    I think Jojo's patter was natural Carneymancy which was intended to flummox Parson and make him susceptible to a follow-u suggestion. Parson's still kind of rattled at this point, which is understandable. Remember, his exposure to Erf inhabitants has been extremely limited this far, and all of a sudden he's introduced (well, sorta) to three new ones while he's on his way to join a battle. One of whom tried to pull a fast one on him (literally) and two who showed up with his most trusted henchman (or trenchman, in this case) to save his exceptionally large butt.

    I doubt seriously that Parson would have agreed to allow Jojo to cast the spell, though given enough time, Jojo MIGHT have been able to overcome his resistance. So now he has the scroll, and we'll eventually find out if it's for real or not, but that's not germane to the current situation.Now . . . Marie wants to get going . . . is she going to JS with Parson? And if so, Wanda is going to crap kittens when she sees Marie (remember, she's from FAQ too).

    But this was a great update, now PARSON NEEDS TO GET THROUGH THE BLOODY PORTAL!!!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 65
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:09 pm 
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    Tathar wrote:
    Unless Charlie gave him a copy of the Parson dossier. Suddenly Big Bad Behind-The-Scenes More Than Perfect Warlord is Jojo's #1 enemy.


    I'm not as convinced as you are.

    We don't know that Jojo was in any way a "royalist". He was fighting for survival of his side; but Parson had little role to play in that downfall! Ansom and Wanda were commanding that, Parson was a Warlord doing routine city management in the capital. Jojo might want to take down GK, but even then, Wanda or Stanley with their attuned tools would be enemy #1.

    I'm still reserving my judgement about what Jojo wanted or why. I can't read him :/

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 65
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:09 pm 
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    Tathar wrote:
    Unless Charlie gave him a copy of the Parson dossier. Suddenly Big Bad Behind-The-Scenes More Than Perfect Warlord is Jojo's #1 enemy.


    No, that wouldn't do it. Parson had nothing to do with Bea's decision. It was that Croakamancer and her darned Arkentool that caused her to jump, no matter what happened to the Coalition.

    Because, after all, Charlie doesn't know that Parson came up with the trap idea. That could have been any of the Casters. Charlie can tap Thinkamancy, but if it's not written in the Klog or sent by Thinkagram, Charlie is just as in the dark as anyone else.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 65
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:11 pm 
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    Thomas60 wrote:
    Speechless Janis got the hots for Parson?
    ...perhaps its a bit too milf-y, I could just draw some blushing cheeks on the 4th panel.


    On the contrary. I think that she's terrified of him now that she can see him first hand with whatever supernatural senses all Hippiemancers probably have that allow them to detect potential sources of conflict. "It's like... looking at a little loose flame. When all the world is one great forest hex." Translation: Parson may look unassuming, but he has the potential to destroy the whole world. And she can see it in him.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 65
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:42 pm 
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    Pretty hilarious update, in many ways. I don't think Parson should trust Jojo OR Marie completely, both of them have agendas. So does Janis, but as a hippymancer, her agenda is more obvious. (get folks to stop killing each other, or something along those lines)

    I imagine Parson will apply his usual methods of testing, and work on figuring out what the scroll actually does, once he has some free time again. Unless he gets Sizemore (the only unit present that he can trust) to take a look at it real quick, if it's at all possible to do safely under these conditions.

    Is it me or does "basic flower power" make Florists sound extremely powerful? With one minor spell, they can stop a unit from being able to initiate combat for an entire turn. I wonder what their more powerful spells are capable of? Or linked spells...


    I'd love to see more than 3 comic pages a month, the pace is starting to get painful.


    Edit: Afterthought: The main reason I think the spell would work as advertised is that, if it is from Charlie (which is almost certain) then Charlie would have to be Grade-A STUPID to try and hurt Parson again. According to one of the updates, regular Thinkamancers can get emotional impressions through links. If Charlie is such an awesome, artifact-empowered Thinkamancer, he should have realized that his original job offer of "Join me or die." pissed Parson off.

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    Last edited by Beeskee on Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 65
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:49 pm 
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    I've basically reacted to this in the previous update's thread.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 65
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:10 pm 
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    Ansan Gotti wrote:
    Jinren wrote:
    In fairness, there's no way that it would ever have been exactly sensible for Parson to have dropped his defenses for an unknown caster simply because they asked him to. No verification of any kind on the spell, etc.


    Fair point, and I don't disagree at all, I just don't know that Jojo is as malicious as Marie is making him out to be.


    He certainly wasn't trustworthy. I don't think he was trying to cast the spell that he said he was casting, and I don't think he was waiting for Parson to do something before he acted. If the carnymancer needed Parson to drop his guard, then there is a losing outcome for him. The game has to be rigged from before Parson knows he is playing. The scroll is a prop, and since Parson is allowed to inspect it now it is either a trap unto itself or a genuine article. My guess is that it's a scroll with a spell strong enough to neutralize Parson, combined with a trap that forces whoever reads it to attack him with it. Another likely possibility is that it fails to yield to standard review. When playing the cups game, you lose the instant you believe that the ball is under a cup; Parson was losing as soon as he thought that he was in charge of whether he won or lost.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 65
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:12 pm 
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    The caster schism deepens. Oh does anyone else wish the caster could have her text not be slanged, or however you want to phrase it.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 65
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:35 am 
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    The Parson, reaction or lack thereof, is another one of his lolwut moment like he did here http://www.erfworld.com/page/66/ since that was over a year ago most have may have forgotten. This is the same type of reaction he is giving now and is following the same form of logic when Jojo was questioning him. Nothing really out of the ordinary except the Sizemore intervention into what would have been a potentially bad outcome for GK had Jojo accomplished is mission.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 65
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:35 am 
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    The.Healing.Mage wrote:
    Ansan Gotti wrote:
    Ouze wrote:
    Nice to find out Jojo was probably malicious, though.


    Or, perhaps even more likely, that it's within Marie's interest to portray Jojo as malicious.


    I subscribe to this. For some reason I find Marie to be really sinister. Which is really, really dichotomous. She's supposed to be this la-dee-da Predictamancer from a bubble philosopher/caster side, but she's pretty intense for all of that. And don't forget that Marie convinced Janis to get the Perfect Warlord spell together. She's a pretty impressive puppetmaster. Kinda like Ann from Sword of Truth. Looks sweet and innocent, kindof a -boop-. And locks people up for 700 years for being born (ironically enough) that series's version of a Predictamancer.


    I'm getting the same vibe that you are, and I attribute a good part of it to Xin's incredible talent -- just look at her expression throughout this ep and the last. That was certainly enough to tip me off. Here's what we know for sure, followed by some personal conjectures:

    1. Sizesmore told Parson that "Marie said you were going to be in trouble."
    Conjecture: Marie, as a predictamancer, saw what would happen if that scroll was cast, and therefore knows exactly what it does.

    2. Last strip, the very first thing that Marie does is say "Don't let him cast that!"
    Conjecture: Whatever the spell was going to do was very detrimental to Marie's plans.

    3. Marie convinced Janis to go along with her scheme by convincing her that an "Erf without war" is possible.
    Conjecture: Marie needed Janis, and thus told her EXACTLY what Janis wanted to hear. Marie's personal goals might be quite different.

    4. As someone mentioned previously, Marie made the prediction that Wanda would wield an Arkentool. What's more, she made sure that the perfect warlord scroll was given to WANDA. Even Janis sensed something fishy about that (text update somewhere), but decided to trust Marie in that case.

    Put all of this together, and I'm beginning to wonder what exactly Marie's goals are. Does she just have some unfinished business with Wanda for betraying her side? Or is she being driven by some other prediction that she's kept to herself so far? The question shouldn't be "What does CHARLIE want with Parson Gotti?" -- it should be "What does MARIE have planned for him?"

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 65
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:05 am 
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    I think it's significant that Marie called Jojo's knowledge of Parson's presence 'predictamancy.' Either:

    1. She is accustomed a cloister of her peers, and not readily familiar with strategic actions outside of predictamancy, ie. inexperienced and sheltered,

    or

    2. She is trying to project naivete for her own purposes, pretending to be 'just a predictamancer, with no assumption of double agents, double purposes, or complex strategies.

    The fact that she insults Parson about his cleverness makes me favor option 2, since if she were really so dumb that she thought assassination was the only real possibility, she would express it in a helpful, fearful way, not an incredulous manner.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 65
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:13 am 
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    Zeku wrote:
    I think it's significant that Marie called Jojo's knowledge of Parson's presence 'predictamancy.'


    Actually, it isn't. Marie is surprised, but she shouldn't be.

    The concern of the casters in MK about a Warlord in MK was significant. They wanted to kill him immediately, after all. It is not a stretch of any sort for any Caster to decide to prepare for Parson's return.

    And if that's a Predictamancer not involved in the Scroll conspiracy with Marie? Simple, just spend some of your daily power casting spells until you've narrowed down the window and who might be best suited to deal with Parson when he returns.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 65
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:28 am 
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    Marie is definitively evil. Maybe even the evil mastermind main antagonist of the series. She was essential in summoning Parson, and it's increasingly clear (also from signamancy: that hat of hers) that she did not do it for the reasons she told Janis Atlantis. She wants to burn the world alright, but not to save it.

    Come on, can anyone tell me a single story where the "predictamancers" were the good guys? No. In fairy tales and modern tales alike, those who can see the future tend to do evil things - in vain - to avoid it.

    (OK; I can think of one good predictamancer: Cassandra. But Marie is no Cassandra!)

    On the other hand... I doubt Erfworld is eventually going to turn into a "you can't fight fate"-story a la Oedipus. Or at least I hope it won't. It could be that a lot of Marie's "predictions" are stuff she's trying hard to make happen. In which case, she's also absolutely evil (fall of Faq, rise of Wanda, summoning Parson).

    Aside, am I right in my understanding that Janis actually leveled in the encounter with Jojo? Sizemore looks pleasantly surprised, and then does a ... "a grand abby hippiemancer, actually!" It would make sense. Hippiemancers should get XP for pacifying enemies (it would be stupid if they had to kill for it), and Jojo was a powerful unit to pacify.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 65
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:43 am 
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    gameboy1234 wrote:
    seans23 wrote:
    panel 5: JFK and Jackie Kennedy? The pink dress, the pillbox hat, the big hair on the guy with his arms around her?


    Many of the casters have been comic book characters (Dr. Strange, Zatanna, etc.) I'm guessing Lois and Clark, in an appropriate 30's style dress.



    In most of the comics I recall, and I admit my knowledge is far from encyclopedic, Clark/Super Man has black hair. This character has light brown hair. Combined with the suit, and the lady's pink dress, this leads me to believe seans23's original posit of JFK and Jackie O.

    That's my two cents anyway. Whether it proves to be worth both pennies, or less, I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 65
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:35 am 
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    +1 to Marie being the one actually pulling the strings of the MK conspiracy. She's pressing everybody's right buttons to make sure Hamster continues waging war.

    This adds a whole new layer of conspiracy. Sizemore is being manipulated by Janis who in turn is being manipulated by Marie, but what's Marie's true goal then? Is she a toolist? Or is she simply going out for total conquest of Erfworld? Wanda is working for GK, so Wanda's tecnically her side. Janis will have a stroke when she finds out she's been used to create the ultimate war machine.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 65
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:41 am 
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    vintermann wrote:
    Come on, can anyone tell me a single story where the "predictamancers" were the good guys? No. In fairy tales and modern tales alike, those who can see the future tend to do evil things - in vain - to avoid it.


    Both Paul Atreides and Leto II saw the future, and were perfectly successful in implementing their Golden Path. It wasn't a glorious future, but it did ensure the continued existence of humanity.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 65
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:54 am 
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    vintermann wrote:
    Aside, am I right in my understanding that Janis actually leveled in the encounter with Jojo? Sizemore looks pleasantly surprised, and then does a ... "a grand abby hippiemancer, actually!" It would make sense. Hippiemancers should get XP for pacifying enemies (it would be stupid if they had to kill for it), and Jojo was a powerful unit to pacify.


    I'm pretty sure that Janis was referred to as a Grand Abbie before at one point, I believe when Sizemore, Wanda, Maggie, and Parson are in the Magic Kingdom after the Volcano blows at the end of Book 1.

    Also, I noticed Parson is described as a flame here, and where did we last hear of a stray loose flame? In the last update with Sylvia telling someone to put it out. I wonder if it is possible foreshadowing that Parson is not going to be on Wanda's side much longer and will end up fighting them soon?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 65
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:19 am 
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    Sixty wrote:
    I'm pretty sure that Janis was referred to as a Grand Abbie before at one point, I believe when Sizemore, Wanda, Maggie, and Parson are in the Magic Kingdom after the Volcano blows at the end of Book 1.


    You're right, she was. My bad.

    Also, the Dune predictamancers... point. But they were kind of ambiguously good. Even more so the less skilled predictamancers, the Bene Gesserit: Basically, much of the "Golden Path" thing seemed to be a way to clean up the mess the BG made with their future-securing attempts. And wiping out foresight forever is part of their plan, so predictamancy is undoubtedly rather evil/destructive in the Dune universe.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 65
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:10 am 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
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    Kreistor wrote:
    Ytaker wrote:
    He's more likely to reject a spell that would kill him. No doubt Marie would predict it too. If you're gonna predict anything you're gonna predict whether your warlord will die.

    It would simply be bad tactics if it was that easily detected. It should at least be a spell of a similar class, so they'd think it would return him.


    I think you missed my point. Carnymancers are known to be liars, but there are many here trying to say that Marie is the liar and Jojo telling the truth. I merely find the concept of two people acting against type to be absurd. The evidence I present is that:

    1) If Charlie is behind it, Charlie's goal is to capture Parson and/or the bracer, not evict him back to Earth
    2) If Charlie is not involved, a much cheaper spell gets rid of Parson with a simple lie from a known liar


    If 1, it's a similar class of spell. It may look like a return spell but actually return him to Charlie. Somehow. It may be possible to do foolamancy on a scroll.

    If 2, a much cheaper spell returns, say, just his head to the real world.

    It might just be a shockamancy spell, but that would be very easy to detect I'd imagine, and rather dull.
    Quote:
    Now, me, I think Jojo's target is really Wanda, and that it's really a Suggestion that will somehow cause Parson to kill Wanda. But that's 100% speculation. This would serve Charlie (by weakening Gobwin Knob for him to get at Parson) and satisfy Jojo's haterd. Jojo has no reason to hate Parson, who had no part in the invasion and destruction of Unqroyal, but should hate Stanley, Wanda, and Ansom.


    Poor idea. The scroll is going to be looked over by sizemore and Maggie probably, as they are his friends. Using thinkamancy or dirtamancy would be a poor idea for a trick as they can understand their magics.

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