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 Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 001
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:37 pm 
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kreszantas wrote:
Darkside, conjecture like this without supporting facts puts your statement into a very dismissive and demeaning tone. (at least in the text world)


That was the intention, actually. I find people dictating my opinions to me somewhat insulting.

kreszantas wrote:
Could you give us your feelings of why you feel this is wrong? What is causes this update, in your mind to be cast in such a negative light? This is a new writing medium, therefore I feel that there is going to be some sort of disconnect with this style, due to it being an "after discussion" of a closed book. I personally felt like it was a compendium or a bonus feature that could be marketed as a "additional piece" much like a subscriber email update feed, only we have to go to it instead of it being auto-sent to a mass email list that is constantly changing. (my viewpoint on this will send this thread on a tangent.)


When Giant first posted about the klogs, my first thought was "Oh great, we'll get a few sentences and a picture instead of a comic, and it'll be a waste while dragging the comic down." What I saw changed my mind immediately; they were large text dumps with a single illustration, yes, but what they did was clarify and advance the plot, while also letting us see Parson's internal thought processes without going "Then Parson though/wondered/speculated." They also provided things like hard facts and numbers not likely to come up in conversation, but that made perfect sense in the context of a paper or computer record. When this was first advertised as "Similar to the klogs", I assumed similar in purpose, and not design.

This entry was what I was originally afraid the klogs would be; an empty bit of text and a picture.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 001
     Post Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:47 pm 
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    I can understand the disappointment, though personally I liked it. Many were expecting a Parson's Klog style. Many were hoping their speculations on mechanics might be confirmed through the updates since the Klogs were used to give us insight on mechanics. Even I was expecting that.

    But either way, I'm here more for the story than game mechanics, so I don't really mind too much on just a little narrative. My anticipation is for what comes after the Summer Updates.

    Quote:
    That was the intention, actually. I find people dictating my opinions to me somewhat insulting.


    "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."
    ~Mahatma Ghandi

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 001
     Post Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:50 pm 
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    I'll admit to being a little disappointed with the update. But, I'm holding onto hope that the collective intermission will provide useful information, nice pictures, an advancement of plot, and hopefully a little humor.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 001
     Post Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:57 pm 
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    Quote:
    "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."
    ~Mahatma Ghandi


    While true when speaking metaphorically about things such as blood vendettas, it's true only to an extent. In every other instance, it's wrong.

    Force wins. Period. Ghandi was fortunate he was protesting the British and not the Chinese or the Soviets or the Mullahs or the Nazis. They would've all killed him within his first day.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 001
     Post Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:06 pm 
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    Darkside007 wrote:
    Quote:
    "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."
    ~Mahatma Ghandi


    While true when speaking metaphorically about things such as blood vendettas, it's true only to an extent. In every other instance, it's wrong.

    Force wins. Period. Ghandi was fortunate he was protesting the British and not the Chinese or the Soviets or the Mullahs or the Nazis. They would've all killed him within his first day.


    I find it more applicable on day to day encounters, especially on forums. If one spends his time trying to demean others in return for being demeaned, he sacrifices the chance of explaining his opinion/action in a way that does make others understand. Instead, it just leads down a road of misunderstanding between forum members and the community loses out on cohesiveness. Dissenting opinions are important; expressing them negatively only causes more negativity toward those opinions.

    (I agree with what you have to say about force in wide bloodshed situations, however. You can be the most sagely person around but that won't stop bullets from people who have no intention of listening to you.)

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 001
     Post Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:24 pm 
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    Sethram wrote:
    I find it more applicable on day to day encounters, especially on forums. If one spends his time trying to demean others in return for being demeaned, he sacrifices the chance of explaining his opinion/action in a way that does make others understand. Instead, it just leads down a road of misunderstanding between forum members and the community loses out on cohesiveness. Dissenting opinions are important; expressing them negatively only causes more negativity toward those opinions.


    You tied together deliberate insult and expression of anger in a very strange and illogical way, and, more importantly, should an entire forum follow your advice, any trolls would have free reign on the forum until the moderators stepped in and issued suspensions/bans. Condemnation and anger are important tools in the maintanence of any community.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 001
     Post Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:03 pm 
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    I just realized something odd about the text, at least so far. Parson isn't narrating it (he's mentioned in the 3rd person, and he's not the sort to talk about himself like that). But the narrator has an attitude toward Erfworld ("as ridiculous as everything else in Erfworld") that no native would have. Nor does it make sense to be narrated by our authors. It sounds to me like someone who's come from our world to Erfworld, and is now telling the story to an audience in our world, having found some way of communicating back.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 001
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:50 am 
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    Sethram wrote:
    Darkside007 wrote:
    Force wins. Period. Ghandi was fortunate he was protesting the British and not the Chinese or the Soviets or the Mullahs or the Nazis. They would've all killed him within his first day.


    (I agree with what you have to say about force in wide bloodshed situations, however. You can be the most sagely person around but that won't stop bullets from people who have no intention of listening to you.)


    Untrue. Not much of a sage if you can't figure out that talking isn't going to stop bullets. I indicate now the Dalai Lama. Note that he's still alive. The Chinese are not listening to him, and have no intention of doing so within his lifetime. Again: he's still alive. Why? Because when people decided to kill him, he stopped talking, turned around, and walked away.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 001
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:31 am 
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    jkosta wrote:
    Sethram wrote:
    Darkside007 wrote:
    Force wins. Period. Ghandi was fortunate he was protesting the British and not the Chinese or the Soviets or the Mullahs or the Nazis. They would've all killed him within his first day.


    (I agree with what you have to say about force in wide bloodshed situations, however. You can be the most sagely person around but that won't stop bullets from people who have no intention of listening to you.)


    Untrue. Not much of a sage if you can't figure out that talking isn't going to stop bullets. I indicate now the Dalai Lama. Note that he's still alive. The Chinese are not listening to him, and have no intention of doing so within his lifetime. Again: he's still alive. Why? Because when people decided to kill him, he stopped talking, turned around, and walked away.

    Yes, and he's only alive because they let him go because they are somewhat civilized as well. But would it have worked on Hitler? Probably not. He had Warsaw Ghetto cleared out even though they were cooperating with him fully and even paying him. Would it have worked on Stalin? Of course not. How about an ancient Roman Emperor. Well, the Romans (and the crowd, I might add) did a pretty good number on Jesus when they didn't like what he had to say. All throughout history, there have been instances of peaceful dissent being met with lethal violence. Sometimes something good comes of it anyway, but for the most part, violence must be met with greater violence.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 001
     Post Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:33 pm 
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    jkosta wrote:
    Sethram wrote:
    Darkside007 wrote:
    Force wins. Period. Ghandi was fortunate he was protesting the British and not the Chinese or the Soviets or the Mullahs or the Nazis. They would've all killed him within his first day.


    (I agree with what you have to say about force in wide bloodshed situations, however. You can be the most sagely person around but that won't stop bullets from people who have no intention of listening to you.)


    Untrue. Not much of a sage if you can't figure out that talking isn't going to stop bullets. I indicate now the Dalai Lama. Note that he's still alive. The Chinese are not listening to him, and have no intention of doing so within his lifetime. Again: he's still alive. Why? Because when people decided to kill him, he stopped talking, turned around, and walked away.


    He fled, and the Chinese Communists didn't care enough to chase him. They know the world isn't going to save Tibet as long as China is the world's factory.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 001
     Post Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:48 pm 
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    Darkside007 wrote:
    jkosta wrote:
    Sethram wrote:
    (I agree with what you have to say about force in wide bloodshed situations, however. You can be the most sagely person around but that won't stop bullets from people who have no intention of listening to you.)


    Untrue. Not much of a sage if you can't figure out that talking isn't going to stop bullets. I indicate now the Dalai Lama. Note that he's still alive. The Chinese are not listening to him, and have no intention of doing so within his lifetime. Again: he's still alive. Why? Because when people decided to kill him, he stopped talking, turned around, and walked away.


    He fled, and the Chinese Communists didn't care enough to chase him. They know the world isn't going to save Tibet as long as China is the world's factory.

    As interesting as this debate is, it has diverged pretty far from the topic of this thread. Perhaps it would be best to move this discussion to its own thread, so that it isn't competing with posts about the actual Summer Update.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 001
     Post Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:38 pm 
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    balder wrote:
    Erfworld: Love is a Battlefield"


    There was little talk on this, I guess it is Ansom vs Jillian or Wanda vs Jillian (or the whole triangle thing)?

    Would it be reasonable that Parson becomes romantically involved with someone (would add a different slant to be a "player") :).

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 001
     Post Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:42 pm 
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    Cmdr I. Heartly Noah wrote:
    Efdup looked "modern?" I get the Air Traffic thing, but it still looked kind of Bedrock-y. The new one, (while looking all turn-of-last-century) has a more constructed look.

    Yes, it looked modern. The curving taper and high-level observatory make it similar in design to such things as the 1800+ foot high CN Tower. Construction like that wasn't possible until fairly recently.

    The impression that it doesn't look as ‘constructed’ is fair. The CN Tower wasn't built, it was poured. At heart it's a single lump of concrete, not assembled from blocks, but poured continuously over a year or so. It's more like frozen liquid than stone and mortar.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 001
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:03 am 
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    Darkside007 wrote:
    That was the intention, actually. I find people dictating my opinions to me somewhat insulting.

    ...

    ...you decided to insult this whole forum based on your reaction to the update?

    In any event, I personally find the updates interesting. They have yet to make me feel truly captivated, but then they are only meant as teasers. They do provide a different perspective, mind, and I like that.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 001
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:22 pm 
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    The Old Hack wrote:
    Darkside007 wrote:
    That was the intention, actually. I find people dictating my opinions to me somewhat insulting.

    ...

    ...you decided to insult this whole forum based on your reaction to the update?


    Read carefully. That is not what happened. Heck, read what you quoted.

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