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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 57
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:21 pm 
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Oberon wrote:
Lamech wrote:
A surprise attack against a kingdom full of predictamancers and lookamancers, and also commanding the most powerful super-weapons on erf (links)? I have some improvements to this battle plan. One: invade Russia in winter after equipping your forces in swimsuits.
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!


At least now we know who charlie is.

Why do people keep claiming the jannice and the predictamancer are "In on it"

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 57
     Post Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:25 pm 
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    Oberon wrote:
    1) It costs movement to cross a hex boundary;
    ...
    The MK does not break these rules, as no zone boundary is crossed when entering or exiting the MK.



    This is what I think. There is no "boundary" between the MK and each hex the portal sits in. The "rules" of Erfworld probably say something like "it takes no movement to enter or exit the Magic Kingdom." Normally this would be for some unit to enter the MK, do some business, then exit the same portal.

    But if the rules don't provide an exception for exiting through a different portal, then no movement cost is no movement cost.

    Probably this is well known to casters. Caster enters MK, notes no movement was lost. Side falls, caster gets hired by other side, exits through different portal, still no movement cost to do so. Like what happened to Queen Bea with Vanna the White Mage.

    Probably also some casters who are not aligned to any side but work as "mercenaries" could have entered the hexes of several sides in a single turn, if their services where in demand, but brief. Again, once this is observed to happen and becomes well known, no one thinks much about it. Until Parson shows up.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 57
     Post Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:54 pm 
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    Stryke wrote:
    Why do people keep claiming the jannice and the predictamancer are "In on it"


    Because of this text update.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 57
     Post Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:37 pm 
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    Pannel 12 th one that looks like it's going out of the blue portal on the left... looks an awful lot like Terra (FF VI) in Esper form

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 57
     Post Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:56 pm 
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    I was thinking Doctor Manhattan of Watchmen fame, but that works too. :)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 57
     Post Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:53 pm 
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    The thing I'm thinking about the portals and hex movement...the portals are not actually causing any form of transit from hex to hex. They merely make contiguous two discontiguous points, folding space itself to place two unrelated areas adjacent to each other. Stepping through a portal doesn't cause you to move between hexes any more than taking a step in the middle of a hex in any direction, because these two disconnected hexes (or the hex and the MK) are actually physically touching at the portal site.

    But that's just my opinion.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 57
     Post Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:11 pm 
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    shneekeythelost wrote:
    Pannel 12 th one that looks like it's going out of the blue portal on the left... looks an awful lot like Terra (FF VI) in Esper form



    I am going with Doctor Manhattan. The figure in panel 12 is blue, rather than purple/magenta and is bald, rather than having hair.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 57
     Post Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:35 pm 
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    GaryThunder wrote:
    The thing I'm thinking about the portals and hex movement...the portals are not actually causing any form of transit from hex to hex. They merely make contiguous two discontiguous points, folding space itself to place two unrelated areas adjacent to each other. Stepping through a portal doesn't cause you to move between hexes any more than taking a step in the middle of a hex in any direction, because these two disconnected hexes (or the hex and the MK) are actually physically touching at the portal site.

    But that's just my opinion.

    Yes, but once you have left the first hex and entered the Kingdom, without expending Move, you can then leave the Kingdom through a different portal, and come out in a completely different hex. Which is kind of the entire point of Parson's plan: you can move hundreds of hexes in a single jog... which kind of completely ignores one of the fundamental unit stats of Erfworld.


    Oberon wrote:
    ] [...] I've seen no movement or turn rules violated by the MK, either the area or the inhabitants.
    [...]
    You do not cross a hex boundary when you use a MK portal, even though you do move from one hex to another.


    Allow me to repeat that, with emphasis: You do not cross a hex boundary when you use a MK portal, even though you do move from one hex to another. That is, if not violating, at LEAST bypassing the rules for movement as observed everywhere else in Erfworld.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 57
     Post Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:28 am 
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    No one in particular wrote:
    Oberon wrote:
    ] [...] I've seen no movement or turn rules violated by the MK, either the area or the inhabitants.
    [...]
    You do not cross a hex boundary when you use a MK portal, even though you do move from one hex to another.

    Allow me to repeat that, with emphasis: You do not cross a hex boundary when you use a MK portal, even though you do move from one hex to another. That is, if not violating, at LEAST bypassing the rules for movement as observed everywhere else in Erfworld.
    Why, yes. This is the entire value of a rules exploit. And, since it has existed for the entire history of Erfworld (presumably), this should be an accepted potential. It appears as though it has been ignored as being simply "one of the cool things about the MK." But as Parson is about to demonstrate, this should have been a factor all along. Many excuses can be made for most sides since non-casters die when using the portal, but Charlie and from his information Jetstone know that Parson can enter the MK without dying. They have no excuse.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 57
     Post Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:48 am 
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    Sam Nanti wrote:
    Stryke wrote:
    Why do people keep claiming the jannice and the predictamancer are "In on it"


    Because of this text update.


    And the text update doesn't support that conclusion. The potential is implied, not verified. So acting as if it were a foregone conclusion is a bit premature.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 57
     Post Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:08 am 
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    Oberon wrote:
    Why, yes. This is the entire value of a rules exploit. And, since it has existed for the entire history of Erfworld (presumably), this should be an accepted potential. It appears as though it has been ignored as being simply "one of the cool things about the MK." But as Parson is about to demonstrate, this should have been a factor all along. Many excuses can be made for most sides since non-casters die when using the portal, but Charlie and from his information Jetstone know that Parson can enter the MK without dying. They have no excuse.

    Okay, to clarify: I'm saying that the portals, which are a thing and not an action, are more than just a rules exploitation like the flying-heavies and mount-croakers. They are far more powerful, versatile, reliable, and safe than crash landings. Toss in the possibility that the portals have been around forever makes it just as plausible, if not more so, that they are the fourth arkentool.

    Seriously, this level of mobility in the hands of any faction other than the non-aggressive Magic Kingdom would be a game breaker.

    Hmm... Dish for unlimited thinkamancy, portals for unlimited move, pliers for zero upkeep... the hammer must do something absolutely amazing to fit in with that crowd.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 57
     Post Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:44 am 
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    Infidel wrote:
    Sam Nanti wrote:
    Stryke wrote:
    Why do people keep claiming the jannice and the predictamancer are "In on it"


    Because of this text update.


    And the text update doesn't support that conclusion. The potential is implied, not verified. So acting as if it were a foregone conclusion is a bit premature.


    I guess the question is, in on what?

    Cause if "in on it" means in on summoning Parson, then yes, they are in on it. Which is what I thought was asked.

    If "in on it" means in on Parson's plan to dash through the MK, then yeah; we don't know for sure if they know. Janis most likely not. Marie probably knows, but we don't know for sure.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 57
     Post Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:29 am 
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    I don't know if it just artistic license or that we haven't seen a full close up view of Predictamancer Marie yet, but she appears to have no pupils. So far, every other unit popped in Faq we have seen has had pupils.
    I'm going to go with "we just haven't seen a good close-up of her yet."


    Last edited by joosy on Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 57
     Post Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:07 am 
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    "A surprise attack against a kingdom full of predictamancers and lookamancers"....

    Charlie values his reputation... if anything it would be a surprise *defense* of magic kingdom from the horrible GK invasion, eg hire some casters from magic kingdom and use them to ambush Parson (or find the right people who would do it for free to defend the kingdom).

    The big problem with this plan is it would give away how much information Charlie has, that he is able to predict this attack, which means he has broken the great thinkers secret code, etc.

    ...

    To me magic kingdom/portals seems like natural rule of game rather than tool/artifact that can be moved. It affects capital cities for every side, giving a way to hire mercenaries and buy spells... this is natural feature of many games that are similar to Erfworld.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 57
     Post Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:34 am 
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    Infidel wrote:
    And the text update doesn't support that conclusion. The potential is implied, not verified. So acting as if it were a foregone conclusion is a bit premature.


    The predictamancer may know, but there is no reason to expect Janice to know what is about to happen.

    Even the predictamancer may only get glimpses of the future, she may have seen Sizemore return, but not know the reason.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 57
     Post Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:16 am 
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    Sam Nanti wrote:
    Infidel wrote:
    Sam Nanti wrote:
    Because of this text update.


    And the text update doesn't support that conclusion. The potential is implied, not verified. So acting as if it were a foregone conclusion is a bit premature.


    I guess the question is, in on what?

    Cause if "in on it" means in on summoning Parson, then yes, they are in on it. Which is what I thought was asked.

    If "in on it" means in on Parson's plan to dash through the MK, then yeah; we don't know for sure if they know. Janis most likely not. Marie probably knows, but we don't know for sure.


    By "in on it" i meant parsons plan, just to clarify. i cant beleive i missed that text update though. That changes the entire premise of the plot, jannis was pulling the strings the whole ti...

    :shock: JANNIS IS CHARLIE :shock:

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 57
     Post Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:47 am 
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    No one in particular wrote:
    Hmm... Dish for unlimited thinkamancy, portals for unlimited move, pliers for zero upkeep... the hammer must do something absolutely amazing to fit in with that crowd.


    It provides dancefighing, levitation, date-a-mancy/turnamancy. I'm betting it provides unlimited specials. Stanley has yet to work out how to apply that to everyone in his stack/hex. Once he does, you have a flying squad of rocking enchanters.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 57
     Post Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:07 am 
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    raphfrk wrote:
    Infidel wrote:
    And the text update doesn't support that conclusion. The potential is implied, not verified. So acting as if it were a foregone conclusion is a bit premature.


    The predictamancer may know, but there is no reason to expect Janice to know what is about to happen.

    Even the predictamancer may only get glimpses of the future, she may have seen Sizemore return, but not know the reason.


    That was my point.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 57
     Post Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:02 pm 
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    cheezewizz2000 wrote:
    No one in particular wrote:
    Hmm... Dish for unlimited thinkamancy, portals for unlimited move, pliers for zero upkeep... the hammer must do something absolutely amazing to fit in with that crowd.


    It provides dancefighing, levitation, date-a-mancy/turnamancy. I'm betting it provides unlimited specials. Stanley has yet to work out how to apply that to everyone in his stack/hex. Once he does, you have a flying squad of rocking enchanters.


    Now that's an interesting idea. It's been suggested that the hammer allows access to Carnymancy but we still don't have a clear idea what Carnymancy is. If it allows the wearer access to manipulate specials at will that has some serious potential for mischief, and if it allows for such manipulations hex-wide, then that is easily as game-breaking as the pliers. Imagine Jillian flying in to destroy GK with 30 or so megalogwiffins when Stanley casually turns off all of their flying specials, causing her entire air force to plummet to the ground and splash into thousands of gallons of marshmellow creme.

    On edit: Now that I think of it, it's even been foreshadowed! There was a text update where Parson and Jack were wargaming, and Parson would run scenarios in which dragons could tunnel and infantry could suddenly cast like archons. Hmmm!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 57
     Post Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:38 pm 
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    atalex wrote:
    cheezewizz2000 wrote:
    No one in particular wrote:
    Hmm... Dish for unlimited thinkamancy, portals for unlimited move, pliers for zero upkeep... the hammer must do something absolutely amazing to fit in with that crowd.


    It provides dancefighing, levitation, date-a-mancy/turnamancy. I'm betting it provides unlimited specials. Stanley has yet to work out how to apply that to everyone in his stack/hex. Once he does, you have a flying squad of rocking enchanters.


    Now that's an interesting idea. It's been suggested that the hammer allows access to Carnymancy but we still don't have a clear idea what Carnymancy is. If it allows the wearer access to manipulate specials at will that has some serious potential for mischief, and if it allows for such manipulations hex-wide, then that is easily as game-breaking as the pliers. Imagine Jillian flying in to destroy GK with 30 or so megalogwiffins when Stanley casually turns off all of their flying specials, causing her entire air force to plummet to the ground and splash into thousands of gallons of marshmellow creme.

    On edit: Now that I think of it, it's even been foreshadowed! There was a text update where Parson and Jack were wargaming, and Parson would run scenarios in which dragons could tunnel and infantry could suddenly cast like archons. Hmmm!


    I think it is worth noting that Stanley's hammer isn't really a hammer... it's a child's toy that resembles a hammer. Given that, I suspect that the only limitation on the Hammer's power is Stanley's imagination.

    Also, thanks for the speedy update!

    Ryan

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