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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:26 am 
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Ya know, I'm really surprised no one has considered the large, beefy, floating Chekhov's Gun up by the portico of the Tower . . . Poor Ossomer has been less than useless since he was decrypted (other than being a momentary distraction for Trem). I don't know why Wanda didn't put HIM in charge of the Atrium forces, as his bonus as a Royal has got to be WAY higher than Sylvia's. Or bring him with them down into the dungeons - he must know the palace (i.e., secret passages) like the back of his hand, and a moose like him would be VERY useful if they encountered trouble (have to get him a red shirt first, though).

I can't see Rob just 'forgetting' about him - I would suspect he's going to have a crucial role in whatever comes down. If he sees his father leading the JS forces into the Atrium, how will he react? Will that break the loyalty imposed by the Pliers? Can he / will he engage his own father in battle? How will he react when suddenly Trem becomes heir . . . and all that he ever was or ever had is stripped from him? He's been murdered in cold blood, decrypted, forced to repudiate all that he ever held dear including his honor and values, been ignored and insulted by the object of his devotions, seen the CWL he serves engage in what to him would be the most blatant of Cheats / treachery, all in this turn and he's just sitting there with his mouth open and a dumb look on his face. Something has GOT to give.

He's been quite . . . TOO quiet . . .

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     Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:32 am 
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    Sieggy wrote:
    Ya know, I'm really surprised no one has considered the large, beefy, floating Chekhov's Gun up by the portico of the Tower . . . Poor Ossomer has been less than useless since he was decrypted (other than being a momentary distraction for Trem). I don't know why Wanda didn't put HIM in charge of the Atrium forces, as his bonus as a Royal has got to be WAY higher than Sylvia's. Or bring him with them down into the dungeons - he must know the palace (i.e., secret passages) like the back of his hand, and a moose like him would be VERY useful if they encountered trouble (have to get him a red shirt first, though).

    I can't see Rob just 'forgetting' about him - I would suspect he's going to have a crucial role in whatever comes down. If he sees his father leading the JS forces into the Atrium, how will he react? Will that break the loyalty imposed by the Pliers? Can he / will he engage his own father in battle? How will he react when suddenly Trem becomes heir . . . and all that he ever was or ever had is stripped from him? He's been murdered in cold blood, decrypted, forced to repudiate all that he ever held dear including his honor and values, been ignored and insulted by the object of his devotions, seen the CWL he serves engage in what to him would be the most blatant of Cheats / treachery, all in this turn and he's just sitting there with his mouth open and a dumb look on his face. Something has GOT to give.

    He's been quite . . . TOO quiet . . .



    Ossomer will certainly have an interesting role in the future... I could see him turning back to Jetstone ... and having an interesting philosophical discution with decrypted Slately later... in book 64...

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     Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:06 am 
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    Quote:
    unless the Titans decided that there should be some Erfworld version of an STI (cwabs?)


    Reading this shut down part of my brain. But in a good way.

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    3) He created a "economic miracle" by making the phoney or useless money disappear bringing back your country from the verge of collapse.

    The coin that Stately caused to vanish using Pinochet was a "fake" coin, not real smuckers therefore it showed that in parallel with Pinochet.


    Holy shit. This is the kind of research Rob does for a throwaway joke. I'm incredibly impressed.

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     Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:32 am 
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    Sieggy wrote:
    Ya know, I'm really surprised no one has considered the large, beefy, floating Chekhov's Gun up by the portico of the Tower . . . Poor Ossomer has been less than useless since he was decrypted (other than being a momentary distraction for Trem). I don't know why Wanda didn't put HIM in charge of the Atrium forces, as his bonus as a Royal has got to be WAY higher than Sylvia's. Or bring him with them down into the dungeons - he must know the palace (i.e., secret passages) like the back of his hand, and a moose like him would be VERY useful if they encountered trouble (have to get him a red shirt first, though).

    I can't see Rob just 'forgetting' about him - I would suspect he's going to have a crucial role in whatever comes down. If he sees his father leading the JS forces into the Atrium, how will he react? Will that break the loyalty imposed by the Pliers? Can he / will he engage his own father in battle? How will he react when suddenly Trem becomes heir . . . and all that he ever was or ever had is stripped from him? He's been murdered in cold blood, decrypted, forced to repudiate all that he ever held dear including his honor and values, been ignored and insulted by the object of his devotions, seen the CWL he serves engage in what to him would be the most blatant of Cheats / treachery, all in this turn and he's just sitting there with his mouth open and a dumb look on his face. Something has GOT to give.

    He's been quite . . . TOO quiet . . .


    Well, the in-comic reason for him staying up there was that he's mounted on a flying carpet, not a dwagon - he probably can't be promoted to heavy, and he can't harvest his carpet.

    But I completely agree that he's been too quiet and that he's got to have some role to play in the coming battle.

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     Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:03 am 
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    I also get the feeling that NONE of the royals, Decrypted or not, are ever going to like Parson. His tactics go beyond "Royal military tactics" that even their dead versions find them disturbing, and hateful. Ossomer is going to be trying to get Wanda's attentions by being contentious with Parson, I'm sure of that.

    And...has anyone wondered if Slately will be carrying the grenade into his counter assault? Pull pin and stuff in your own trousers? Then, like Bogroll, there would not be enough to Decrypt.

    And one more thing...has anyone wondered if that one non-decrypted yellow Dwagon in the background all this time is Banana?

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     Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:07 am 
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    BakaGrappler wrote:
    And...has anyone wondered if Slately will be carrying the grenade into his counter assault? Pull pin and stuff in your own trousers? Then, like Bogroll, there would not be enough to Decrypt.


    Unlikely. He doesn't even recognize the grenades as such. But yes, that might be one way to avoid being decrypted.

    BakaGrappler wrote:
    And one more thing...has anyone wondered if that one non-decrypted yellow Dwagon in the background all this time is Banana?


    Of course it is. Rule of Cool says so.

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     Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:14 am 
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    So star wars right? Slately promotes Trammennis to heir, and goes out on his suicide mission. Slately is croaked and decrypted. Trammennis then gets to face his newly risen (dark side) father. Also light saber. Anyone who needs it can use this: http://nooooooooooooooo.com/

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     Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:10 am 
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    Sieggy wrote:
    Ya know, I'm really surprised no one has considered the large, beefy, floating Chekhov's Gun up by the portico of the Tower . . . Poor Ossomer has been less than useless since he was decrypted (other than being a momentary distraction for Trem). I don't know why Wanda didn't put HIM in charge of the Atrium forces, as his bonus as a Royal has got to be WAY higher than Sylvia's. Or bring him with them down into the dungeons - he must know the palace (i.e., secret passages) like the back of his hand, and a moose like him would be VERY useful if they encountered trouble (have to get him a red shirt first, though).

    I can't see Rob just 'forgetting' about him - I would suspect he's going to have a crucial role in whatever comes down. If he sees his father leading the JS forces into the Atrium, how will he react? Will that break the loyalty imposed by the Pliers? Can he / will he engage his own father in battle? How will he react when suddenly Trem becomes heir . . . and all that he ever was or ever had is stripped from him? He's been murdered in cold blood, decrypted, forced to repudiate all that he ever held dear including his honor and values, been ignored and insulted by the object of his devotions, seen the CWL he serves engage in what to him would be the most blatant of Cheats / treachery, all in this turn and he's just sitting there with his mouth open and a dumb look on his face. Something has GOT to give.

    He's been quite . . . TOO quiet . . .



    My guess is that after Slately orders Trem out of the city, Trem's only avenue for escape will be through the air, at which point he must confront Oss. My guess is that Oss will not have the will to fight and although the archon's will attempt to prevent Trem's escape Oss orders them to stand down. This will become even more complicated as both brothers watch their father lead a desparate and doomed charge into the courtyard from the air above the atrium.

    The major catch here is Oss's sense of honor and duty. Will Oss's duty and honor mean that he can not allow the escape to happen unless defeated? If such is the case he may deliberately force Trem to croak him, my guess a duel. I'm curious to see what happens to Trem's personality after these events. How will such profound tragedy affect his demeanor?


    Last edited by Crarites on Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:54 am 
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    If that happens...I can even see Ossomer picking to disobey an order...depopping himself...We'll see though. :geek:

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     Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:02 pm 
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    teratorn wrote:
    Selexor, but up to now different gender couples have been the norm in Erfworld with a blatant exception (Wanda and Jillian).


    The archons, implied, as well.

    I count only 8 heterosexual pairs, four of which were hypothetical, faked, or long distance (Jack & Jill, Wanda distracting Stanley, Bea + Don, Caesar + Bunny)
    The remaining 4 realized pairs are
    Jillian + Ansom, Vinnie
    Holly Shortcake + Slately
    Sizemore + the lady from MK whose name I forgot, mentioned in one text update, just before this day began; IIRC, this is not long term relationship.

    All that's really missing to bring it into balance is a male homosexual actually getting out there and doing something rather than merely existing with an ambiguous hypothetical hookup preference.

    ETA:
    as pointed out above and below, there are more heterosexual pairs - Webinar and Dora (though I don't know of any evidence that they were actually romantically attached aside from Jillian's snarky comment), and the base attraction of Mung for Wanda.
    And Sizemore's hookup was Uhura, of course. Yes, indeed, how could I forget?


    Last edited by drachefly on Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:11 pm 
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    Quote:
    Unfortunately, word of titans ALSO said:

    Quote:
    Book 2 Page 10 wrote:
    Ansom: What have you done!
    Wanda: We haven't time. I would have given you the duty, but she was close to leveling.



    I suspect Rob's changed his mind about certain aspects of this as the story has progressed. Leveling is clearly not a surprise- even if the precise numbers remain impenetrable, there's at least a strong sense to it.


    Nothing very inconsistent here. You can know you're close, but not now how long it was going to take you to get there. To make a physical metaphor, say you're lying down in a canoe, drifting down a river toward a waterfall. All you see is sky, so you don't know how far ahead the waterfall is. When you get close, though, you're going to hear the roar and crash coming up. Ta-da! Metaphor. :D

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     Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:52 pm 
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    Sieggy wrote:
    I can't see Rob just 'forgetting' about [Ossomer]- I would suspect he's going to have a crucial role in whatever comes down. If he sees his father leading the JS forces into the Atrium, how will he react? Will that break the loyalty imposed by the Pliers? Can he / will he engage his own father in battle? How will he react when suddenly Trem becomes heir . . .


    ... or when he (Ossomer) inherits JS. Just sayin!

    Regarding Pinochet... I'm still puzzled. These interpretations make sense, but why was the joke in the comic? Too ambiguous, politically charged, and obscure to be very funny, so perhaps there was another reason for describing the ritual. Why would Slately need to make fake money disappear to contact Don for story purposes?

    To those pointing out how Erfworld signamancy works differently than our own... are you sure Tram is gay? I'm not.

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    Last edited by effataigus on Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:53 pm 
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    Ditto wrote:
    When you get close, though, you're going to hear the roar and crash coming up. Ta-da! Metaphor. :D


    That was like two snares and a cymbal dropped in a chasm.

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     Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:02 pm 
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    Ditto wrote:
    When you get close, though, you're going to hear the roar and crash coming up. Ta-da! Metaphor. :D


    That was like two snares and a cymbal dropped in a chasm.


    Ta da! Simile.

    Together, they are ANALOGOTRON!

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    Last edited by effataigus on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 am, edited 239044 times in total.

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     Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:44 pm 
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    effataigus wrote:
    Together, they are ANALOGOTRON!


    Given the other conversational threads for this text update, I'm not sure how to read that.

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     Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:53 pm 
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    nth wrote:
    effataigus wrote:
    Together, they are ANALOGOTRON!


    Given the other conversational threads for this text update, I'm not sure how to read that.


    -

    no, I'm not Ricky Gervais, so I'll keep quiet.

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     Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:36 pm 
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    drachefly wrote:
    teratorn wrote:
    Selexor, but up to now different gender couples have been the norm in Erfworld with a blatant exception (Wanda and Jillian).


    The archons, implied, as well.

    I count only 8 heterosexual pairs, four of which were hypothetical, faked, or long distance (Jack & Jill, Wanda distracting Stanley, Bea + Don, Caesar + Bunny)
    The remaining 4 realized pairs are
    Jillian + Ansom, Vinnie
    Holly Shortcake + Slately
    Sizemore + the lady from MK whose name I forgot, mentioned in one text update, just before this day began; IIRC, this is not long term relationship.

    All that's really missing to bring it into balance is a male homosexual actually getting out there and doing something rather than merely existing with an ambiguous hypothetical hookup preference.

    Don't forget Webinar and Dora!

    Edit: and Trem's not gay, he's just whimsical. Though his wish to be HALF the Queen Jillian is might be kind of questionable . . .

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     Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:25 pm 
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    *shrugs*

    There is only thing we have to imply that Tramennis is gay. This is that he acts rather effeminate... but since he lives in a universe where gender roles are inherently meaningless, that really tells us nothing. There is absolutely nothing else that even remotely suggests he fancies fellas.
    As for Slately's homophobia... first of all, it depends on Tramennis being gay in the first place, which is already a fair stretch. And assuming that's true, it further requires Slately to hate homosexuality in a universe where heterosexuality holds no significance whatsoever. And, further, Slately is embarassed enough by his own homophobia that he won't even say it out loud, preferring to use euphemisms and hints when describing his son.

    So just to be clear - this whole thing requires Erfworld to acknowledge the concept of homosexuality as different to heterosexuality when there is absolutely no reason for the distinction to exist either biologically or socially. Then, there has to be a social stigma attached that makes homosexuality look negative, to the point where a man hating his gay son is not considered odd to others. And then there is a further stigma attached to homophobia that makes the man in question feel embarassed to actually call his son out on it because it'll make him look like an arsehole.
    The sole piece of evidence that all of this rests on is the fact that Tramennis is short and kind of pretty-looking.

    In summary: even if, if Tramennis is gay, it makes no sense for that to matter to the story or to the people of Erfworld. And if it did matter once, clearly Slately thinks it doesn't matter any more, so what's the problem?

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     Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:36 pm 
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    ZaHgO wrote:
    I have followed this comic since issue 15, also I'm chilean, that's why I feel dissapointed in the use of Pinochet in such an insulting way.
    I'm not a follower of him but neither against him. But it's clearly a mistake to take it so lightly without knowing the full context in wich the things happened.
    What's worse, I was planning on ordering the books, but how could I now?
    Hmmm, you aren't a follower nor are you against Pinochet, but you feel "dissapointed" that a dictator who overthrew a democratically elected government and then instituted vicious human rights violations has been represented in an online comic in an "insulting" way? And because a dictator who overthrew a democratically elected government and then instituted vicious human rights violations who you neither support nor oppose was in your opinion insulted, your purchasing decisions have been changed?

    Go read the MST3K mantra a thousand times.
    kreszantas wrote:
    Pinochet did three amazing unheard of things in your country. 1) He revitalized a free-enterprize economy 2) Allowed for multinational corporation to return allowing for massive expansion of your countries economy that were at one time expropriated by Allende's Popular Unity government 3) He created a "economic miracle" by making the phoney or useless money disappear bringing back your country from the verge of collapse.
    He also made things about twice as worse economically before he started making things better. And he privatized many industries and services. Later, he started getting things turned around. But please do not represent it as though he executed his coup and then began fixing things with only the minor problem of ruthlessly suppressing political opposition. Although even there he was an odd bird, allowing some opposition groups while attacking others.
    ============================================================================================================================================
    Dr Pepper wrote:
    Yikes! It's been 15 months since Oss was decrypted. Where does the time go?
    Dear God! Really? Damn...
    teratorn wrote:
    Strange [that we've seen no female hobgobwins] since Mung hinted that seeing Wanda aroused him somehow.
    Hinted? :P
    ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ wrote:
    Ossomer will certainly have an interesting role in the future... I could see him turning back to Jetstone ... and having an interesting philosophical discution with decrypted Slately later... in book 64...
    Book 64? We'd be on our third author, and most forum accounts will have to be passed on to our most argumentative children... :twisted:
    GaryThunder wrote:
    Quote:
    3) He created a "economic miracle" by making the phoney or useless money disappear bringing back your country from the verge of collapse.

    The coin that Stately caused to vanish using Pinochet was a "fake" coin, not real smuckers therefore it showed that in parallel with Pinochet.

    Holy shit. This is the kind of research Rob does for a throwaway joke. I'm incredibly impressed.
    I've noted that many characters and many jokes have dual or even treble meanings. And Rob has, in a very patient response one one of the many "Hey, get on with the updating. For something that ought to take you maybe 15 minutes while sitting in morning traffic you sure do turn out new material slowly, asshole" comments, detailed the process of research and writing he goes through for each strip. If I can find it again I'll link it here, but I think you can do a forum search for posts by person and find it fairly quickly.
    drachefly wrote:
    Sizemore + the lady from MK whose name I forgot, mentioned in one text update, just before this day began; IIRC, this is not long term relationship.
    Uhura! How can you forget Uhura?
    effataigus wrote:
    Why would Slately need to make fake money disappear to contact Don for story purposes?
    Everything should not need to be explained in exacting detail... Slately has no thinkamancer. But he has a Hat. Clearly, Don has the mate to that Hat. When Don feels a coin appear on his head, that is the prearranged signal for "Give me a thinkamancy call."

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     Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:55 pm 
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    effataigus wrote:
    Regarding Pinochet... I'm still puzzled. These interpretations make sense, but why was the joke in the comic? Too ambiguous, politically charged, and obscure to be very funny, so perhaps there was another reason for describing the ritual. Why would Slately need to make fake money disappear to contact Don for story purposes?

    To those pointing out how Erfworld signamancy works differently than our own... are you sure Tram is gay? I'm not.


    I thought there was a much simpler reason for "Pinochet." "Magic words" in Erfworld almost invariably sound to us like puns that speak to the circumstances in which they are invoked, but to Erworlders, they're just "magic words" with no more significance than "abracadabra." It's not like either Slately or even Cubbins (who I assume made the crown) knew who Augusto Pinochet was or why his name might imply certain things about Slately's current situation. To them, it's probably just a nonsense word. I also doubt the name was used to invoke some obscure comment about the Chilean economy. Or maybe it was -- I am constantly amazed at the multiple layers in Rob's writing, so anything's possible. My suspicion, however, is that "Pinochet" was used to invoke the idea that most of us who are NOT students of Chilean history have of the real-life Pinochet, i.e. an elderly and somewhat ruthless leader who was forced from his throne and sent into exile at the end of his life. YMMV. I really can't think of a better word for Slately to have used that wouldn't have been even more obscure than Pinochet.

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