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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 53
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:06 am 
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Wow. I did NOT expect the king to be so, er, non-pigheaded and reasonable about this. Quite the surprise!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 53
     Post Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:11 am 
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    but parson is the chief warlord meaning that all his side's units in the entire HEX get a bonus if he is in it. so while 2 isn't much hen added to all the other warlords and stuff it matters. like say, the warlord that was decrypted after being THWARTed, he may have a 6 bonus, but parson shows up so it now totals 8 meaning all units in his stack are powered up and stuff. also parson would want Ace the dollamancer SO BAD, and ace would probably like serving under him since parson would LIKE his ideas and give him feedback on how they would be better.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 53
     Post Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:22 am 
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    Finally, a glimmer of understanding?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 53
     Post Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:23 am 
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    starburst98 wrote:
    but parson is the chief warlord meaning that all his side's units in the entire HEX get a bonus if he is in it. so while 2 isn't much hen added to all the other warlords and stuff it matters. like say, the warlord that was decrypted after being THWARTed, he may have a 6 bonus, but parson shows up so it now totals 8 meaning all units in his stack are powered up and stuff. also parson would want Ace the dollamancer SO BAD, and ace would probably like serving under him since parson would LIKE his ideas and give him feedback on how they would be better.
    Not to mention that "Ace Hardware" is a great place to find some tools.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 53
     Post Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:27 am 
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    Tramennis has some nice tactical thinking, but I can't help but wonder why he isn't considering destroying the city with Wanda and Co. still inside. Of course, there isn't a handy volcano for the job, as there was at Gobwin Knob when Parson did it...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 53
     Post Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:31 am 
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    EarwaxRock wrote:
    It seemed like after Ansom was decrypted, he just went into full cognitive dissonance-mode, accepting his new side to be in the right, regardless of what they did, despite the fact that he felt the same way about the other side just seconds before.

    On the other hand, Ossomer, who seemed at least equally proud when we first met him, seems (just from reading his body language) to feel quite a bit of shame over the way his side is behaving. I don't know if this shows a difference in character that I hadn't noticed, or if Ansom would have reacted the same way if he had stayed around to see Gobwin Knob's latest tactics.


    I think there are some very key differences between Ansom and Ossomer. Although lately Ossomer has been drifting around in a daze, and some people (especially me) have been teasing him for it, really I think he's quite a good, reasonable character.

    Remember when Parson first told Ansom that Royalty was obsolete? Ansom responded with rage - he has a fanatical belief in his own righteousness. It seems he devotes himself - mind, body and soul (if he still has one) into whatever belief it is that gives him a step up over others around him.

    When Ossomer was confronted by Ansom, he didn't rage, or even try to argue. He just stated his position, and invited Ansom to prove him wrong. Ansom and Wanda tag-teamed him, and so now he has the following to think about:

    Reconciling his belief in the Royal Titanic Mandate with his new non-royal side.
    Seeing the basic beliefs of his life (honourable conduct etc) being violated by his CWL.
    Considering if his beliefs in the RTM have indeed been proven wrong by his defeat.
    Considering Toolism as perhaps a valid option after all...

    Unlike Ansom who was a bit "Ah, shit. RTM isn't gonna work for me now... what was that thing about Toolism? Yeah, that'll work! I'm a Toolist!! GoToolsYAY!" Ossomer is actually taking the time to consider his position and make a judgement on what this all means regardless of where it leaves him socially.

    I bet he needs a hug.


    Ruduen wrote:
    Come to think of it, who are the likely candidates for the king to talk to? The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Don King, but that doesn't sound right as his choice for immediate consultation.

    Hm...


    I also hope for someone who is not Don. We've seen those two interact not long ago. Perhaps the Sofa King? Or maybe this is a good time to introduce a new character/side?

    Also - where are the marbits?


    And lastly: Will Tramennis fight? I'm going to have to say yes, but I dont see him winning after GK has come so far. Does this mean we get a captured/decrypted Tramennis? Or does he jetpack away at the last moment...

    If he doesn't fight, and just lets GK take the city, that would be balls. Not idiot balls - hairy old ones.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 53
     Post Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:36 am 
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    Well, let's see. Back when Parson did the original numbers, it was a 99% certainty that the Dwagons and Archons combined would take the garrison, but that was when the army was in the field.

    We still have all the Dwagons and half their riders are now Heavies, and there is a strike force of a couple hundred Decrypted in the garrison now.

    The Archons control the airspace so no using Unipegtuars, and all casters, including the Dittomancer that can increase the remaining troops, are leaving the Hex. But Archons can't land this turn.

    The bolted doors won't be able to last very long once Sylvia and her Red get up there and ranks of infantry in confined areas are not very good against breath weapons. But only one Dwagon will be able to go through the choke point at a time since there appears to only be one entrance (unless someone gets the idea of blasting down a wall), and enough spear thrusts WILL bring down a Dwagon.

    Jetstone has more Leadership units, but possibly their best remaining one, Duke Antium, is now Decrypted.

    This sounds like an incredibly even fight. There is a fifty-fifty chance that Tramennis will have his military stay and fight. For plot purposes, if Tramennis didn't there would be no need for Parson to go through the Magic Kingdom, which he is predicted as doing so, so I think Tramennis is gonna stick it out for the chance of victory. No way the battle is gonna get tied up so quickly.

    And Ace...seems to place a HIGH priority on serving Prince Tramennis in this battle. He'll probably get permission from the King to go back. I get the feeling the Jetpack is gonna save someone's day and Ace will go into Parson's pocket.

    It would be great if Ace and Sizemore team up to make combat androids...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 53
     Post Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:45 am 
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    To all those who are wishing for ace to turn... Can you imagine him in stanley's livery? With stars and stripes he would somewhat look like captain america (some version of it anyway).

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 53
     Post Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:51 am 
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    ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ wrote:
    Sweet.

    on an other note, Ossomer must feel quite bad... Is there anything like morale in Erfworld? I can't remember...



    I was thinking the same. While I think Slately was trying to be apologetic, it did come off as a bit of a dis. OTOH, he was clearly complementing Tramennis, so I think perhaps Ossomer should feel happy for his brother.

    Also, when Slately said "I appointed the wrong warlords," I took that sort of literally, and started thinking about Fate. Wanda believes strong in her Fate, and I wonder if this is going to be significant eventually. Perhaps "Fate" manipulated Slately into finally promoting the "right" warlord by removing all the wrong choices. So what is Tramennis going to do? I don't think just win battles and think logically. I think Fate has something bigger in mind.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 53
     Post Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:34 am 
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    BakaGrappler wrote:
    Well, let's see. Back when Parson did the original numbers, it was a 99% certainty that the Dwagons and Archons combined would take the garrison, but that was when the army was in the field.

    We still have all the Dwagons and half their riders are now Heavies, and there is a strike force of a couple hundred Decrypted in the garrison now.

    The Archons control the airspace so no using Unipegtuars, and all casters, including the Dittomancer that can increase the remaining troops, are leaving the Hex. But Archons can't land this turn.

    The bolted doors won't be able to last very long once Sylvia and her Red get up there and ranks of infantry in confined areas are not very good against breath weapons. But only one Dwagon will be able to go through the choke point at a time since there appears to only be one entrance (unless someone gets the idea of blasting down a wall), and enough spear thrusts WILL bring down a Dwagon.

    Jetstone has more Leadership units, but possibly their best remaining one, Duke Antium, is now Decrypted.

    This sounds like an incredibly even fight. There is a fifty-fifty chance that Tramennis will have his military stay and fight. For plot purposes, if Tramennis didn't there would be no need for Parson to go through the Magic Kingdom, which he is predicted as doing so, so I think Tramennis is gonna stick it out for the chance of victory. No way the battle is gonna get tied up so quickly.

    And Ace...seems to place a HIGH priority on serving Prince Tramennis in this battle. He'll probably get permission from the King to go back. I get the feeling the Jetpack is gonna save someone's day and Ace will go into Parson's pocket.

    It would be great if Ace and Sizemore team up to make combat androids...


    There are other ways the plot could go.

    Trem could well up and leave. Parson still comes through, because he doesn't know....

    But still, they have Spacerock. Jetstone will at least be reduced in capacity. Broke as they are, they won't be a perfect threat for a while. A retreat of the enemy definitely counts as your win...

    Spoiler: show
    And then the Xanatos Gambit pileup becomes a flaming boop-pile when Wanda declares her own side right here with her troops, effectively making parson her prisoner. With the bulk of stanley's army right there (including a foolamancer parson gets to watch die and come back not so much his friend anymore). Wanda's unhinged with the rejection of Jillian yet again: she's still serving fate if she takes the hammer from stanley's corpse, and goes and gets her girl back. Parson now has to avoid disbanding, and explore if an already conflicted ex-royal can turn or not...


    Okay, to be fair, probably not going to be this. In fact, almost certainly not, lol. Real speculative theory now:

    Parson and co have won the day, sure. But the portal is about to shut off. Going home is gonna be the long way. And both Charlie and Transylvito are coming at him. Stanley can't send help, Jillians rampage is keeping him occupied and just took out the forts closest to Parson and co. They can't stay where they are, they don't have the power to hold it and in a few turns everybody is coming to boop them up. They have to run. And they are going to be running for turns.

    A chance to explore life in the field, and explain move, stack and turn mechanics in general as parson finally sees things outside GK in later chapters.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 53
     Post Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:45 am 
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    You know, I can't honestly tell if that's a too late endorsement of Tramennis or a condemnation of him. It could be read either way, though I prefer the former.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 53
     Post Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:08 am 
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    kagato23, parson has NO MOVE. he cannot change hexes, that is why he has to use the magic kingdom to cheat his way there.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 53
     Post Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:14 am 
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    Smoker wrote:
    Reconciling his belief in the Royal Titanic Mandate with his new non-royal side.
    Seeing the basic beliefs of his life (honourable conduct etc) being violated by his CWL.
    Considering if his beliefs in the RTM have indeed been proven wrong by his defeat.
    Considering Toolism as perhaps a valid option after all...

    Unlike Ansom who was a bit "Ah, shit. RTM isn't gonna work for me now... what was that thing about Toolism? Yeah, that'll work! I'm a Toolist!! GoToolsYAY!" Ossomer is actually taking the time to consider his position and make a judgement on what this all means regardless of where it leaves him socially.

    I bet he needs a hug.



    Yeah, Ossomer is definitely a Woobie at this point. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWoobie

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 53
     Post Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:20 am 
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    factotum wrote:
    Tramennis has some nice tactical thinking, but I can't help but wonder why he isn't considering destroying the city with Wanda and Co. still inside. Of course, there isn't a handy volcano for the job, as there was at Gobwin Knob when Parson did it...



    I think Parson has answered that one for you (conversation with Sizemore): raising the city does not affect the attackers who simply claim the ruins and rebuild. Of course as a last act it should at least cause some costs (in rebuilding that is), though we know to little about the economy and city captures to know for sure. Seems like a thing Queen Bea would have thought of if it mattered.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 53
     Post Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:33 am 
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    I'm pretty sure he's going to talk to Queen Bea.

    He blames himself for everything that's happened to Jetstone, he's filled with regret and the idea that he wronged Trammenis all this time. He's going to abdicate by walking through the portal... or so he thinks. He may have a very awkward meeting with Parson in store!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 53
     Post Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:34 am 
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    Why is in the first panel Antium still alive and marching behind Trem?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 53
     Post Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:43 am 
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    Hmmmmm. I don't think the battle is a close as it might seem. As Parson figured out during the battle for goblin knob, its not the number of troops ya got, but the bonus you stack on your troops that makes or breaks a battle. If Tramennis thinks that the situation looks grim now, wait until Parson shows up with his casters...

    I think that Tramennis has shot himself in the foot by sending his casters away with the King.

    Well that is at least as how I see it.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 53
     Post Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:47 am 
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    starburst98 wrote:
    kagato23, parson has NO MOVE. he cannot change hexes, that is why he has to use the magic kingdom to cheat his way there.


    When he promoted himself to a field unit he may have gained move. And he has to cheat his way there because it isn't his turn and you can't move when it's not your turn.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 53
     Post Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:53 am 
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    Rolan7 wrote:
    I'm pretty sure he's going to talk to Queen Bea.

    He blames himself for everything that's happened to Jetstone, he's filled with regret and the idea that he wronged Trammenis all this time. He's going to abdicate by walking through the portal... or so he thinks. He may have a very awkward meeting with Parson in store!


    Fine theory, but that would end his side (seeing that there's no heirs)

    Note: Trammenis is not an heir

    Yours truly

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 53
     Post Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:23 am 
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    Angband wrote:
    So why didn't they just use the spelled-up tower, the casters and all those archers to simply cleanse the airspace of GK units prior to flying the king out of the city? The spells in the tower, especially, will be lost if they have to abandon Spacerock.


    If spells are not enough to finish all archons, Tram would need to send flying units and leadership. This means casualties and more croaked units for Wanda do decrypt. They'd also need to remove Ossomer because of the huge bonus he gives to any archons in his stack, meaning another decrypted dwagon to boost Wanda's army. Ossomer, his mount, and archons are not interfering in the fight, no need to engage them.

    It makes sense to waste the archons only after the fight is won or just before abandoning the city.

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