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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:38 pm 
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Yosarian wrote:
Well, a city can probably be peacefully self-sufficient if it also has farms or mines or whatever. I mean, FAQ was.
It wasn't self sufficient, in the context of farming/mining to support itself. Jillian had to go out and sell mercenary services to keep the shmuckers flowing in.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:21 pm 
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    Next turn - Zombie Helper!! And yup, the expression on the Royals faces ought to be absolutely priceless. I would guess that Trem will think that Parson has chosen suicide rather than surrender, which ought to flabbergast him long enough for Wanda and company to get recovered and secure the ground level. After all, once inside the Atrium, he won't be able to see what's going on in there. Also, he'll assume they're all dead, and the screaming he hears is from his own units that were injured in the cwapstorm and Dwagonrain.

    And since his attention will be focused on on the spectacle of falling enemy forces, I'd be willing to bet he forgets completely about the Archons for a short while. If the Atrium can be taken before the JS leadership can recover from their shock, they might be able to descend to cover at ground level before Trem realizes what's afoot, and that it would be a good idea to take them out quickly.

    Or . . .if the Archons are still airborne but out of sight, out of mind (I'm thinking directly above the roof of the Tower), once the Atrium is taken and the other sub-zones are open to attack, can they then make a surgical strike on the high level units on the top? If 28 Archons all pop up simultaneously and blast the portico there, they will most likely wind up getting croaked, but at point-blank range, they could do some SERIOUSLY awesome damage.

    However, I doubt that Parson has forgotten about them, and that they have some part to play in the plan now being unveiled. I think he's counting on shocked incredulity to paralyze the enemy long enough for Phase 2 to get underway.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:31 pm 
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    Yosarian wrote:
    Crackpot theory number 12:

    This plan works. Wanda decrypts the dragons, and takes the city. And then uses the city as a capital site to start a new side, with the entire army (including the now decrypted dragons) obeying all of her orders.


    I believe this theory have been mentionned quite a few times already and often met the same argument against it:

    It wouldn't suit well the whole "Fate wants all tool united" dogma very well...

    Wanda is fully able to manipulate Stanley (so she doesn't need her own side), starting her own side would probably only make her an easier target for her detractor.

    We don't even know if non-heir can start their own sides.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:43 pm 
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    It seems that harvesting doesn't use a different corpse depopping mechanic than the usual one. Thus, we'd expect decryption to stop the harvesting process. It's possible, depending on priority, that the rations appear anyway, but parson says the rations appear when the corpse depops, so that's unlikely.

    I find the first partial sentence intriguing. So you can send units to the enemy with orders to turn-- can this be refused? Is it exploitable? Are there units it would be harmful to possess? I suppose you can instantly disband units, but maybe there's still ways?

    Can you fake turning? What about with foolamancy?

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:05 pm 
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    arcseed wrote:
    It seems that harvesting doesn't use a different corpse depopping mechanic than the usual one. Thus, we'd expect decryption to stop the harvesting process. It's possible, depending on priority, that the rations appear anyway, but parson says the rations appear when the corpse depops, so that's unlikely.

    I find the first partial sentence intriguing. So you can send units to the enemy with orders to turn-- can this be refused? Is it exploitable? Are there units it would be harmful to possess? I suppose you can instantly disband units, but maybe there's still ways?

    Can you fake turning? What about with foolamancy?


    I imagine you could send them units that would overtax their treasury and that you had a defense against or that they couldn't use against you effectively.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:21 pm 
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    Anyone else noticed the Hobgowbins mounts are still alive? I think only the non-heavies are croaking their mounts (so they can stay with the Hobgowbin group i wager).

    Kelon

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:30 pm 
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    Question-

    Trem isn't stupid. He must have noticed that 75% (ish, I'm guessing) of the dragons were just "harvested".

    Shouldn't he just say "Launch all fliers, send all spells and arrows at the archons and end turn when complete. Oh and Capture my Brother for his kingdoms treachery".

    The bad news- It is now GW's turn. They can decrypt some of your infantry. They also have some dragons in your courtyard.

    The Good News- You eliminated almost all of the attacking force by allowing the "next turn" to happen and the dragons to be harvested before they were able to be decrypted, you have a strong flying force capable of severely damaging or destroying what is left of the GK fliers, you have plenty of heavies and infantry to handle what is left of the invading force, and there shouldn't be any reinforcements close enough to do anything. Weather what Wanda can do and try the diplomacy a second time.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:32 pm 
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    FUUUU !!

    This only generates more questions.
    Why only the hobgowins were promoted to heavys?
    - Was a limitation of schmuckers?
    - Was a limitation of the decrypt unit type ?

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:34 pm 
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    Or maybe because most decrypt units are warlords and they can't be promoted ?

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:35 pm 
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    Why do I think that Stanley will not be happy. Parson has found an interesting idea and one that Jetstone will not see coming. Charlie is totally right about Parson he is very dangerous and should never be underestimated. The battle will be one that may send a very unusual message to everyone around GK that to win will be a challenge. i wonder if Vinny will not try his coup now he is seeing almost first hand the danger of opposing GK and if he tries he could loose his side as GK drops by.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:37 pm 
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    An interesting thing about the heavy-upgrade is that anything that looks like a heavy hobgobwin on a non-croaked dwagon can probably be deemed not to be a veiled Wanda. Trammenis should order an all-out attack on all falling humanoids other than Ossomer.

    Snowtitan wrote:
    it's quite possible the decryption overrides the harvest 'flag' so that it then remains as a normal decrypted unit. course it could work either way.
    As for harvesting decrypted units. doubt that would work, only selected units can be harvested, and as you said not corpse, and if it did, it would probably override the decrypted 'flag'


    There may not even be a harvest flag on the corpse. If rations appear any time a non-speaking unit's corpse de-pops at the end of a turn, that would minimize the number of new mechanics introduced by harvesting. It was already established that rations could be garnered by hunting, and we've seen that hunting is more like normal combat.


    ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ wrote:
    Wanda is fully able to manipulate Stanley (so she doesn't need her own side), starting her own side would probably only make her an easier target for her detractor.


    If Wanda managed to decrypt Parson and Maggie, then she would be able to manipulate Stanley by proxy and it might advance her goals to switch herself over to Charlie. Not that the decryption of Parson is likely to happen, though. Or maybe she doesn't need to decrypt Parson, if the summoning spell binds him to obeying her?

    I wonder if Wanda is hoping to one day plant a decrypted or bound Parson with Charlie, leave a decrypted Maggie with Stanley, and strike off to join up with the fourth Arkentool. (I'm glad Wanda doesn't read this board.)


    arcseed wrote:
    I find the first partial sentence intriguing. So you can send units to the enemy with orders to turn-- can this be refused? Is it exploitable? Are there units it would be harmful to possess? I suppose you can instantly disband units, but maybe there's still ways?

    Can you fake turning? What about with foolamancy?


    Perhaps the decrypted could be ordered to turn away from GK without losing loyalty to Wanda. Trammenis would probably be too trusting if Ossomer turned right now.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:47 pm 
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    Allsardane wrote:
    Question-

    Trem isn't stupid. He must have noticed that 75% (ish, I'm guessing) of the dragons were just "harvested".

    Shouldn't he just say "Launch all fliers, send all spells and arrows at the archons and end turn when complete. Oh and Capture my Brother for his kingdoms treachery".

    The bad news- It is now GW's turn. They can decrypt some of your infantry. They also have some dragons in your courtyard.

    The Good News- You eliminated almost all of the attacking force by allowing the "next turn" to happen and the dragons to be harvested before they were able to be decrypted, you have a strong flying force capable of severely damaging or destroying what is left of the GK fliers, you have plenty of heavies and infantry to handle what is left of the invading force, and there shouldn't be any reinforcements close enough to do anything. Weather what Wanda can do and try the diplomacy a second time.


    Ah, but thinking quickly in an emergency situation like this is almost entirely foreign to Erfworlders. They live in a turn-based world, and are very used to having time to think. A key part of Parson's exploit here is that he's worked out a way to do an off-turn surprise attack, forcing his opponents to fight an RTS-style battle instead of the hexes&turns warfare they're familiar with.

    If he wants to continue his game of rattling his opponents by pushing buttons, he could
    Spoiler: show
    order Ossomer to turn, as per the cut-off first sentence of the klog. That might distract Trem just long enough.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:51 pm 
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    FaustiiGoethe wrote:
    Or maybe because most decrypt units are warlords and they can't be promoted ?


    Or Decrypted can't have their type modified (they're essentially Really Fancy uncroaked).

    Or Promoting to Heavy is a one-way deal: units may not be "demotable".

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:58 pm 
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    Allsardane wrote:
    Question-

    Trem isn't stupid. He must have noticed that 75% (ish, I'm guessing) of the dragons were just "harvested".

    Shouldn't he just say "Launch all fliers, send all spells and arrows at the archons and end turn when complete. Oh and Capture my Brother for his kingdoms treachery".

    The bad news- It is now GW's turn. They can decrypt some of your infantry. They also have some dragons in your courtyard.

    The Good News- You eliminated almost all of the attacking force by allowing the "next turn" to happen and the dragons to be harvested before they were able to be decrypted, you have a strong flying force capable of severely damaging or destroying what is left of the GK fliers, you have plenty of heavies and infantry to handle what is left of the invading force, and there shouldn't be any reinforcements close enough to do anything. Weather what Wanda can do and try the diplomacy a second time.

    I don't think that would work. In Erfworld, one run-through of every side's turn is one day. Night would still happen before the next turn cycle started, and casters can expend juice and perform most other actions that aren't explicitly spells off-turn, so as long as Wanda survives her fall she could still decrypt the dwagons before the start of Gobwin Knob's next turn, when rations would pop.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:59 pm 
     
    I was thinking that ending turn would be a good way to stop GK... but on rethinking, it's incredibly dangerous, and limiting, for Jetstone... certainly not the sort of thing Tram is going to do on the spot, especially with Haggar right outside waiting for their turn, and possibly willing to turn on them.

    Losing their turn also prevents Tram from being made heir, among other things, meaning if the GK forces kill Slately, it's all over... way too risky, especially given to him it looks like GK is committing suicide, and there is no way they should be able to land (in his mind). He could even think it's foolamancy.

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     Post Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:00 am 
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    Llelldorin wrote:
    Allsardane wrote:
    Spoiler: show
    order Ossomer to turn, as per the cut-off first sentence of the klog. That might distract Trem just long enough.


    I smell another sploit over there...
    Decrypts units are completely loyal to wanda and the arkenpilers like religious zealots...

    If she orders a unit to turn to another side. What happens to that unit loyalty ?
    Something tells me that the units still being completely loyal to wanda and the arkenpillers.

    So its possibly to play dirty war over a side :D

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     Post Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:00 am 
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    [cliche] Long time lurker, first time poster [/cliche]

    I don't know why this page made me do it, but I finally signed up. I think that when I saw the picture, I just thought about what it would look like to Trem and it got me really excited to see the next few pages unfold. Jetstone expected to have to slaughter the forces, now they're flinging themselves from the sky, killing their own mounts! And then, I imagine, they will eventually realize they are totally boned as more of the plan settles in.

    But I'm torn as to whether I want this plan to work perfectly. No, I think I'm decided, I want things to go horribly wrong. It seems fairly likely that Charlie listened in on the whole plan, and it wouldn't be too surprising if he told Trem. Trem does not seem at all perturbed at anything that's going on. Perhaps he knows what Parson is planning, is playing into his hand, but has some countermeasure devised.

    Think back to book 1. Basically every good plan Parson made, it ended up not working well enough to do them much good, or failing. He was supposed to be the perfect warlord, but he kept losing, or at least he wasn't demolishing the enemy. And then on plan Q or R or something way down the road, he finally went with uncroaking the volcano, and it was awesome after so much un-success.

    But now I'm afraid he's just going to steamroll erfworld and never have a defeat, never have a worthy adversary. To me, the strength in Parson wasn't in his plans, it was in his flexibility and ability to instantly come up with something for the situation. Ansom sat around laying plans. Parson just winged it. But now, Parson's sitting around making plans it feels, and I don't want them to just always work. So I want Trem to have something awesome waiting for those overburdened dwagons and plummeting, mountless cannibalizers. And then Parson's going to have to pull something really great to leave us in awe. He seems to have several ideas in store, remember in the portal room how he said he may not even have to do anything? I feel like all through book 1, he had the idea of the volcano in the back of his head, and it was only the most dire of straits that made him use it. So I'm rooting for Trem, I'm wanting dire straits, and then something even more incredible to happen.

    Oh... and on topic with the latest post, I've always had a hard time figuring out the logistics in erfworld. It always felt like something like Parson suggests could be done, but I didn't really know about how much money a side gets per turn (do they get 200 schmuckers every time they pass go, or what?), and how much upkeep was, and just how everything came together. Charlie's finances always made me curious, how he affords so many expensive units with only mercenary work to pay for it. He should really invest in a moneymancer it seems!

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     Post Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:00 am 
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    The line about things that talk reminds me of the line from Schlock Mercenary, "Food that talks is not food"

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     Post Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:07 am 
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    I'm guessing when Slately sees what is happening he will assume it is being done out of spite to deprive their side of experience and prevent their units from leveling. This might be a reason to do it all at once instead of waiting to be shot down- confuse the enemy.

    I think it is also curious that hobgobwins are all on yellow and pink dwagons, the "weaker" types . . . maybe the "stronger types" can actually carry heavy units. In a previous page Maggie points out that it is half a dozen turns away by dwagon and that Parson is a garrison unit- no mention of him being a heavy unit which would be relevant if that would prevent him from traveling on dwagon. She was present when he tested "banana" and would know if Dwagons in general could not carry him. See page 42 of book 2.


    Last edited by Fug on Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:56 am, edited 4 times in total.
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     Post Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:12 am 
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    Foolamancer wrote:
    TheMutant wrote:
    At first I was sure that Jack and Wanda's scrolls were definitely Healomancy, but maybe that isn't the case. Maybe they can be used to reduce damage or somehow shield themselves- remember, if Wanda croaks, the plan falls on its face, and it doesn't seem like Parson to rely on chance to determine that she won't die instantly from the fall (though I'm sure Wanda's pretty confident about that. Fate and so forth.)


    They are Healomancy.


    Jack's scroll is Healomancy. Nothing is stated about Wanda's scroll.

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