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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 47
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:14 pm 
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rughat wrote:
<tinfoil hat>
Everyone is assuming that the dragons are crapping, while everyone is waiting right there to be shot by archers. I point out one important fact:

There is a master-class foolimancer in the hex.

Perhaps they fell already, veiled as the falling crap, and left a flight of illusionary dragons to take the hail of arrows?

</tinfoil hat>


Hmm.... Who knows? Although I don't see the Archons in the last panel, but the dragons could be obscuring them.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 47
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:44 pm 
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    rughat wrote:
    <tinfoil hat>
    Everyone is assuming that the dragons are crapping, while everyone is waiting right there to be shot by archers. I point out one important fact:

    There is a master-class foolimancer in the hex.

    Perhaps they fell already, veiled as the falling crap, and left a flight of illusionary dragons to take the hail of arrows?

    </tinfoil hat>


    That... would explain why the parley was a useful part of this stunt. It would serve as the diversion, since it seems unlikely that a flash-mob would work twice.

    It would also explain how dwagons could produce what looks to be their own weight in crap.

    Hmm, what would they be doing on the roof then?

    If this is the plan, and if that is smoked glass they're standing on, then I hope Jack knows to put up the veil on the underside too.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 47
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:55 pm 
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    Jack was low on juice, dunno if he could pull an illusion across zones.

    And the battle bears were dollamancy constructs, right? They may not be decryptable, since we haven't seen any constructs decrypted.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 47
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:12 pm 
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    danhaas wrote:
    Jack was low on juice, dunno if he could pull an illusion across zones.

    And the battle bears were dollamancy constructs, right? They may not be decryptable, since we haven't seen any constructs decrypted.
    Tchotchkes are Dollamantic constructs, and Wanda has certainly decrypted those.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 47
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:27 pm 
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    Huh, indeed. Ooo, I wanna see jack riding a tankeroo.

    btw, did you actually remember that? It was just mentioned in a text update, with no drawing of it. :P

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 47
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:45 pm 
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    Looks like they went with plan...

    *David Caruso glasses*

    Number Two.

    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 47
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:58 pm 
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    omgitsgene wrote:
    Looks like they went with plan...
    *David Caruso glasses*
    Number Two.
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH


    My new favorite post in this thread. :)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 47
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:05 pm 
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    OneHugeTuck wrote:
    I find it interesting that all the dragons can be commanded to crap on command, simultaneously. Hell of a party trick.


    We already knew that. From book one. Like page 3 or 4.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 47
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:48 pm 
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    May I just say, I found 'dookie' used as a sound effect to be quite funny. :lol:

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 47
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:37 pm 
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    I wonder if Tram's "Then I would speak to him" about Parson could be used as an invitation & excuse for Parson to enter the portal to Spacerock.

    So, Tram will actually get what he asked for, i.e. meeting Parson, and getting to know the worst possible outcome ? :mrgreen:

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 47
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:50 pm 
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    I do like that Tramennis and Parson seem destined to finally meet face-to-face. They make a good foil for one another. Ansom was always more of an opposite to Stanley than he was to Parson, and Charlie's a good counterpart to Parson but he's also the invisible figure in the back. Tramennis is a real, actual person who Jillian seems to respect, who can actually wield his diplomatic skills to control the RCC2 successfully, has a good understanding of tactics, and seems like he'd approve of Parson's perspective of Erfworld.

    Hell, even the Signamancy (combined with Slately's thougths) suggest that whatever else he may be good at, Tramennis isn't exceptionally skilled at combat by normal Erfworld standards. We don't know what Parson's combat stats are, exactly, but I imagine that he's probably quite strong by the standards of Erfworld, to make up for his limited talents. So if he and Tramennis actually were to fight, they could match up pretty well.

    What I'm mostly looking forward to is where Spacerock's portal room is, and therefore, where Parson's gonna make his grand entrance. Much as I'd like him to get a chance to sneak around and wreak havoc inside the city, I'd also love an "Oh snap" moment where he appears right in front of the majority of the army. Mind you, the two probably won't be far apart... even if he enters the city unobserved, Tramennis and Slately will see Gobwin Knob's stats rise the second Parson enters the hex. And if a single Jetstone soldier sees Parson, natural thinkamancy would probably broadcast the location straight to Jetstone's leadership.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 47
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:47 pm 
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    ftl wrote:
    Also, Ossomer is completely talking out of his rear end. He's talking about how Parson isn't dishonorable, and how he's sure he had good reasons... while personally knowing absolutely nothing about Parson or his reasons.
    Agreed, but we already know that the decrypted are fanatics. Ossomer doesn't need to know anything, he just needs to believe.
    Selexor wrote:
    Re: Honour:
    [snippage]
    If an honourable fight is to take your opponent on fair an equal terms, then nobody has ever fought a truly fair fight before - in the history of Erfworld or Earth - because the entire point of fighting is to win.
    Very nice post, with very accurate arguments and conclusions. Fighting "by the rules", fighting "fair", that's all well and good for sporting events. For war, especially in a war of annihilation, which both the RCC and the RCCII announced their intentions to fight, rules have no place except as an attempt by the advantaged side to restrict the actions of the disadvantaged side. Parson didn't kill Ansom "dishonorably." Instead Parson, while facing certain defeat at the hands of a vastly superior coalition of forces intent upon the destruction of his Side, denied the RCC both the surrender Ansom had thought that he was due and which would have led to the slaughter of every GK unit save (and only perhaps) the casters, and the bonus of a powerful warlord. And I see absolutely nothing wrong with this action.
    Zeku wrote:
    Charlie knew about Parson being CWL because he knows Parson's and Ansom's level. If Charlie has the recon to look at any GK field unit at all, anywhere, he knows who is the CWL based upon their bonuses.
    I'm not sure that it has been shown that a unit can see the "points" of an enemy unit. The only indication that I can recall is after the decrypting of Ansom, Wanda says something like "And look, he is still a level 10 Warlord." But since Jillian had been in Wanda's tender care and had spilled all, I believe that it remains unclear as to whether Jillian told Wanda during her interrogation that the RCC leader was a level 10 Warlord, or if this information was easily viewed by anyone looking at Ansom.
    DevilDan wrote:
    Please, please tell me there won't be any sort of slowdown due to the holidays! I cannot wait for this to go down.
    I am sorry to inform you, if history is any judge we have at least 20 updates before there is any clear resolution. And probably more like 30-50. On the plus side, that's a lot of content! On the minus side, damn that is a slow way of arriving at what must be an already determined conclusion. And you'll have both the plus and minus camps and those in between griping and winging the whole time, so strap on tight, this promises to be a wild ride!
    decius wrote:
    Why is defecating considered an attack? Just because it falls?
    It seems to be the equivalent of a "breath weapon" for the yellow dwagons. Rather than breathing fire, lightning, poison gas, etc., they have a similarly potent (and pungent!) poop attack.
    OneHugeTuck wrote:
    I find it interesting that all the dragons can be commanded to crap on command, simultaneously. Hell of a party trick.

    I wonder how much ammo they have/contain.....
    It's not so unusual, as long as you view it as the yellow dwagon version of a breath weapon. If you can command a red dwagon to breath fire, why not be able to command a yellow dwagon to poop acid? As to how much ammo they have, the sole indicator is the fight at the pass to FAQ between Stanley and his KISS and the forces of the RCC of Jillian and the TV units. In that fight Jillian encouraged a GK dwagon who was breathing fire to "get it out of his system", which hints at a use/turn capability of dwagon specials.
    omgitsgene wrote:
    Looks like they went with plan...

    *David Caruso glasses*

    Number Two.

    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH
    I highly approve of this post.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 47
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:56 pm 
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    didn't see it anywhere above and I can't be arsed to do an exhaustive search but I have an idea/tinfoil hat:
    Spoiler: show
    the acidic battle crap is going to melt the base of the tower and it will literally rain men before turn's end

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 47
     Post Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:08 am 
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    Got one comment. I do not believe that Parley is sacrosanct. In addition to Bea's action, we also had the initial confrontation between Decrypt Ansom and the then living Oss. Oss attacked. Sure, he was trying to redeem his brother from what he saw as a state of degradation and captivity. Nonetheless, the kind of attitude maintained by Jetstone doesn't seem allow for exceptions. The House of Jetstone claims to be the royalest of the royals. In fact they seem to consider themselves the standard to judge others by. So each of the brothers has been brought up a very well defined understanding of how one should and should not behave as a prince and a knight of the realm. So if parley were sacrosanct, you'd expect excuses and recriminations. Yet Oss does not say "Honor does not apply to abominations!". Ansom does not say "Shame on you, attacking under a flag of truce!". They just fight.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 47
     Post Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:40 am 
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    Dr Pepper wrote:
    Got one comment. I do not believe that Parley is sacrosanct. In addition to Bea's action, we also had the initial confrontation between Decrypt Ansom and the then living Oss. Oss attacked. Sure, he was trying to redeem his brother from what he saw as a state of degradation and captivity.


    I'm not sure where you mean. In the parley at Expository Bridge, nobody attacked until after the parley was over. http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -11-04.jpg and http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -11-07.jpg both show a respectable parley with the occasional insults, ending when Ansom walks away from it.

    Could you point to what parley you're talking about, when Ossomer attacks Ansom?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 47
     Post Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:57 am 
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    From a purely scriptive point of view the writing is on the wall for Tramennis and Jetstone due to the haughty attitude. The Titans are looking on and weighing the fitness of Jetstone in their scales and are finding it deficient. The key point is that when Tramennis states let HIM judge Parson for himself that is a not a good sign. Even more so since you live in a glass house or 'roof' in this case. This will not be pretty and may very well knock you out from the stench (Jetstones') not the Acidic Dwagon Dung. :ugeek:

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 47
     Post Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:58 am 
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    effataigus wrote:
    rughat wrote:
    <tinfoil hat>
    Everyone is assuming that the dragons are crapping, while everyone is waiting right there to be shot by archers. I point out one important fact:

    There is a master-class foolimancer in the hex.

    Perhaps they fell already, veiled as the falling crap, and left a flight of illusionary dragons to take the hail of arrows?

    </tinfoil hat>


    That... would explain why the parley was a useful part of this stunt. It would serve as the diversion, since it seems unlikely that a flash-mob would work twice.

    It would also explain how dwagons could produce what looks to be their own weight in crap.

    Hmm, what would they be doing on the roof then?

    If this is the plan, and if that is smoked glass they're standing on, then I hope Jack knows to put up the veil on the underside too.


    Or Parson assumes that charlie has informed them how Ansom died and is using the misconception that the dung is a veil, and Ossamer is a decoy so that they attack the dung while the dragons attack the king.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 47
     Post Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:02 am 
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    kreszantas wrote:
    From a purely scriptive point of view the writing is on the wall for Tramennis and Jetstone due to the haughty attitude. The Titans are looking on and weighing the fitness of Jetstone in their scales and are finding it deficient. The key point is that when Tramennis states let HIM judge Parson for himself that is a not a good sign. Even more so since you live in a glass house or 'roof' in this case.

    I think he's mostly trying to provoke a reaction from Ossomer. What he's saying mirrors Ossomer's ultimatum to Ansom on Expository Bridge pretty closely; he might be testing to see how much Ossomer has changed. And judging by Tramennis' "Final Words" chat with Duke Antium shortly afterwards, I don't think Tramennis truly believes it. He's just doing what he does best... talking to an enemy and seeing what kind of advantage he can get from it.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 47
     Post Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:54 am 
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    Or Parson and Sizemore are going to port through to Spacerock and Sizemore is going to have instant access to acidic battle crap (acid and crap golems?).

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 47
     Post Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:19 pm 
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    Oberon wrote:
    Selexor wrote:
    Re: Honour:
    [snippage]
    If an honourable fight is to take your opponent on fair an equal terms, then nobody has ever fought a truly fair fight before - in the history of Erfworld or Earth - because the entire point of fighting is to win.
    Very nice post, with very accurate arguments and conclusions. Fighting "by the rules", fighting "fair", that's all well and good for sporting events. For war, especially in a war of annihilation, which both the RCC and the RCCII announced their intentions to fight, rules have no place except as an attempt by the advantaged side to restrict the actions of the disadvantaged side. Parson didn't kill Ansom "dishonorably." Instead Parson, while facing certain defeat at the hands of a vastly superior coalition of forces intent upon the destruction of his Side, denied the RCC both the surrender Ansom had thought that he was due and which would have led to the slaughter of every GK unit save (and only perhaps) the casters, and the bonus of a powerful warlord. And I see absolutely nothing wrong with this action.


    Very bizzare posts, showing an inaccurate understanding of ethics and military custom on Earth. Might does not make right. Rules of engagement exist, and are but one class of rules of warfare. Disobeying such customs is done at your peril- who knows, maybe you are, in fact, big enough to escape the consequences. Not always a safe bet though, and it's not a moral justification anyway.

    Erfworld might be different for the reason that annihilation wars are more common there than they are on Earth. Military conflicts on our planet most often end way before one of the sides has been obliterated; the stake, therefore, is rarely survival, but rather regional power, territory, self-governance.

    There are exceptions, of course. There have been wars fought until annihilation. Not that many though, in our parts.

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