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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 45
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:41 pm 
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Morak wrote:
BarGamer wrote:
Wait... No... Parson COULDN'T be thinking of doing an "Ender's Game Instant Win Condition," could he?!


Why not it is on his offical strategy list; Fool's Mate:
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Oh my. It just occurred to me...Parson wrote that Klog and others in the Eyebook, didn't he? Just how well can Charlie hack those I wonder. Does he have access to Parson's thought patterns there?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 45
     Post Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:17 am 
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    MarbitChow wrote:
    dirocyn wrote:
    Though the bigger benefit to Parson being in Jetstone is probably the Chief Warlord Bonus that applies to every unit in his hex.

    Parson already calculated that a huge warlord bonus wouldn't be enough to turn the tide.
    Having Parson running free, reuniting with Wanda's troops (once they drop out of the sky and enter the Garrison space, I believe where he will also end up via the gate), and being able to react to battle conditions on-the-fly is the main benefit.

    Of course, that was all he could do at the time, since he wasn't CWL yet. I have a feeling Parson's big plan still relies heavily on the use of force multipliers, though.

    Remember that bit about what they could do off-turn, like promoting units, equipping and rationing? Well, we did see Parson equip and promote himself, but I believe what we'll see happen is that every humanoid unit that remains after the big fall, either through survival or decryption, Parson will dip into the treasury to promote them to a Warlord and upgrade their weapon bonus.

    This is basically a one time cost since Decrypted have zero upkeep. It's also not breaking any rules, since you can apparently have as many command units as you want in a stack. Cross-multiplying the bonuses they will then have will make the resulting smaller ground force exponentially stronger than the already-powerful air force they already had.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 45
     Post Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:56 am 
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    Dante wrote:
    MarbitChow wrote:
    dirocyn wrote:
    Though the bigger benefit to Parson being in Jetstone is probably the Chief Warlord Bonus that applies to every unit in his hex.

    Parson already calculated that a huge warlord bonus wouldn't be enough to turn the tide.
    Having Parson running free, reuniting with Wanda's troops (once they drop out of the sky and enter the Garrison space, I believe where he will also end up via the gate), and being able to react to battle conditions on-the-fly is the main benefit.

    Of course, that was all he could do at the time, since he wasn't CWL yet. I have a feeling Parson's big plan still relies heavily on the use of force multipliers, though.

    Remember that bit about what they could do off-turn, like promoting units, equipping and rationing? Well, we did see Parson equip and promote himself, but I believe what we'll see happen is that every humanoid unit that remains after the big fall, either through survival or decryption, Parson will dip into the treasury to promote them to a Warlord and upgrade their weapon bonus.

    This is basically a one time cost since Decrypted have zero upkeep. It's also not breaking any rules, since you can apparently have as many command units as you want in a stack. Cross-multiplying the bonuses they will then have will make the resulting smaller ground force exponentially stronger than the already-powerful air force they already had.


    I don't think we have any evidence that more than one warlord can give their bonus to a single stack simultanously.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 45
     Post Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:57 am 
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    effataigus wrote:
    Hmm... it does seem odd that portal guards would see Sizemore tunneling at their feet and not get curious where the tunnel goes. I hope Sizemore has the good sense to wander off into the forest and then tunnel beneath the two portals... then come back through the gate to pick up Parson and finally, after emerging, just connect the surface to the tunnel itself....


    As long as he doesn't take a wrong turn at Albaquerque.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 45
     Post Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:08 am 
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    Raza wrote:
    effataigus wrote:
    Hmm... YouTube started in 2005, but didn't really become popular until awhile later. Erfworld started in 2006 (as close as I can figure from a copy write symbol on the first page).

    I guess where I'm going with this is... anyone know when Parson got "Plotted" (or will get plotted) into Erfworld? Memes come and go faster than Erfworld will (I hope), so I'm curious how Parson will stay relevant. I suppose it hasn't been that long in Erfworld time though, and who knows how time in Erfworld compares to time on Earth.

    Hmm. I wouldn't say his knowledge of the real world should be limited to the real-world start of Erfworld, though. More like the current date (dynamically), minus the fictional amount of days he spent in Erfworld. So currently, his cut-off date would lie somewhere inside august of this year.


    We do have a static indication of when Hamster was plotted over to Erfworld. In the first comic with Parson he checks the visit stats on his webcomic. This webcomic was last updated 2006-07-17.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 45
     Post Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:21 am 
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    mortissimus wrote:
    We do have a static indication of when Hamster was plotted over to Erfworld. In the first comic with Parson he checks the visit stats on his webcomic. This webcomic was last updated 2006-07-17.

    Only vaguely related, but the comments of Lord Hamster under his own comics might give us some hints about Erfworld mechanics:
    Lord Hamster wrote:
    I have two console systems...xbox and a PS2, but I'm a lot more into strategy games. I play Warhammer and some other miniatures systems, and I am developing my own game. And I like some older PC fantasy strategy games like Warlords IV and Civ II, and some RTS like AoE. Board games, too. Anything strategy and fantasy, I like. I don't play any mmorpgs tho. Too repetetive, not enough strategy.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 45
     Post Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:34 am 
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    Is Sizemore going to create a tunnel once in the magic kingdom, or is he going to begin it in GK's portal room and continue it underground into the MK?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 45
     Post Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:11 pm 
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    @ discussion of Parson taking golemns and archons with him... do we know for certain that golems and archons can go through portals?

    It would not strike me as particularly odd if either could go through portals, but I can't recall there being any evidence that confirms it. We have reason to believe they might not be allowed through, afterall:
    --Golems aren't casters, they're units created by casters.
    --Are archons casters, or are they just "flying knight class units" with natural (random)ancy? I'd argue that if they were considered to be casters by Erfworld rules, then Parson would already know whether Jack could "cast" after being decrypted.

    @ discussion of starting the tunnel under ground on the GK side and continuing it underground through the entire segment of the MK... that seemed like a worthwhile idea to explore depending on how the portal functions, but I don't think it's what Parson has in mind. If he could make the entire trip underground then he wouldn't need to do the 50 yard dash. I'm thinking he'll emerge normally and then run into a tunnel dug by Sizemore.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 45
     Post Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:56 pm 
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    If Parson's MK gambit succeeds, Sizemore will have lost even more in service/duty to his warlord. He may go from rockstar to pariah or person non gratis once his complicity in throwing the Magic Kingdom into chaos is revealed. I'm sure a lot of casters will not be able to get mercenary work as a consequence, resulting in some intra caster fighting for jobs and some possible disbanding to lack of upkeep for others.


    Last edited by joosy on Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 45
     Post Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:46 pm 
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    The key word is loyalty. Sizemore could start to undermine GK's cause if his loyalty gets too low, unless he can see tangible benefits of breaking up the entire Erfworld and more.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 45
     Post Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:13 pm 
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    joosy wrote:
    If Parson's MK gambit succeeds, Sizemore will have lost even more in service/duty to his warlord. He may go from rockstar to pariah or person non gratis once his complicity in throwing the Magic Kingdom into chaos is revealed. I'm sure a lot of casters will not be able to get mercenary work as a consequence, resulting in some intra caster fighting for jobs and some possible disbandonment to lack of upkeep for others.


    With regards to the change in Sizemore's status, that seems likely. And it'll actually be interesting to watch, since most of our views of the MK have come through him. I'm sure Janis will have some more words of comfort for him, though (but I'm not sure if she'll be happier that he went to serve the Perfect Warlord, or angrier that he didn't wait for her/the Predictamancer).

    As for casters having trouble getting work? Seems unlikely. Given the extreme demonstrated value of having casters of ANY type and ANY level (well, we don't know about ALL levels), it seems nigh-certain that casters would be able to find work whenever they wanted - perhaps only for upkeep-pay, but constant work. It might lead to the splintering of the MK, though,for any of the many reasons that have already been discussed.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 45
     Post Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:21 pm 
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    Anias wrote:
    As for casters having trouble getting work? Seems unlikely. Given the extreme demonstrated value of having casters of ANY type and ANY level (well, we don't know about ALL levels), it seems nigh-certain that casters would be able to find work whenever they wanted - perhaps only for upkeep-pay, but constant work. It might lead to the splintering of the MK, though,for any of the many reasons that have already been discussed.
    Well, it is possible that people will destroy/block their MK portals to avoid sudden death. That's only if someone who knows about Parson's powers survives the turn and deduces that Parson used the MK for the attack on Spacerock.

    So, can we think of any insane, superpowerful people/tunas that are antagonistic to Parson and know that he can use the MK?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 45
     Post Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:48 pm 
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    Nihila wrote:
    Anias wrote:
    As for casters having trouble getting work? Seems unlikely. Given the extreme demonstrated value of having casters of ANY type and ANY level (well, we don't know about ALL levels), it seems nigh-certain that casters would be able to find work whenever they wanted - perhaps only for upkeep-pay, but constant work. It might lead to the splintering of the MK, though,for any of the many reasons that have already been discussed.
    Well, it is possible that people will destroy/block their MK portals to avoid sudden death. That's only if someone who knows about Parson's powers survives the turn and deduces that Parson used the MK for the attack on Spacerock.

    So, can we think of any insane, superpowerful people/tunas that are antagonistic to Parson and know that he can use the MK?


    CAN you destroy/block a MK portal? If not, I can actually envision this becoming rather useful to offensive casters like Shockamancers - they could market themselves as "portal security guards"!

    On a more serious note, has it been established what the point of the MK is game-wise? (I'm assuming it's built into the game rather than a confederation that emerged.)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 45
     Post Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:53 pm 
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    Guppy wrote:
    I am assuming that the Portal gate extends underneath the Portal-room floor, and that Parson knows this.


    does this seem likely based on the pictures of the portals we've seen so far?

    Guppy wrote:
    Magic Kingdom won't even know until it's done, and maybe even not even then -- if there are no surviving witnesses -- in which Parson has a really mean exploit to use again :twisted:


    do casters have any sort of loyalty to the magic kingdom that trumps their loyalty to their overlords?

    I can see Sizemore "confessing" to Janis, post-battle, to violating the integrity of the magic kingdom.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 45
     Post Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:24 am 
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    Quote:
    Oberon wrote:
    Quote:
    Kizmet wrote: Also... you know the portal is a weak point for every Kingdom. However, you have not created additional defenses, posted extra guards, traps, etc to protect your own portal. Warfare is about what you can do to your enemy, and what you can stop your enemy from doing to you (loosely paraphrasing from Ender's Game). Seems odd to leave your back door vulnerable to counter attack.

    You know, meaning who? It would appear that no one knows, except Parson. No Side guards its portal because no attack has every been initiated across that portal. And this makes sense. Parson is the sole non-caster (perhaps) or at least CWL who has ever had the capability to enter the MK and not die. Casters are rarely used in the field at all, and are poor combat units without support, so it isn't terribly odd that no one ever considered using casters across the MK. No one posts guards against the Spanish Inquisition!

    You know, meaning Parson! Kizmet is pointing out that Parson is not making any obvious effort to prevent Spacerock or anyone else from counter-attacking using the MK just as he is about to do. If nobody else finds out about his tactic or is able to replicate it, fine, but it does seem like he's about to publish an exploit without protecting himself against it.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 45
     Post Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:41 am 
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    I don't see why everybody thinks that traveling through the portal would be particularly useful outside of a narrow set of situations. The only reason why Parson has a chance of not just dying horribly when he goes through to Spacerock is because he happens to already have an army there. If it were just him, even taking the caster's with him, he would be unlikely to do much and, even if he did, he probably would't survive it. Casters and weird, don't-follow-the-rules warlords are too rare and valuable to send on suicide missions.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 45
     Post Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:29 pm 
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    And of course he'll be stepping out of Jetstone's portal essentially alone. Hopefully the room's empty, and he can barricade himself inside. Otherwise he's a sitting duck, when all of a sudden Trammenis see's GK's army's stats jump up.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 45
     Post Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:07 pm 
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    OneHugeTuck wrote:
    And of course he'll be stepping out of Jetstone's portal essentially alone. Hopefully the room's empty, and he can barricade himself inside. Otherwise he's a sitting duck, when all of a sudden Trammenis see's GK's army's stats jump up.


    Yes, but he won't have a clue why or where to look for an explanation. And it's not their turn. :o

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 45
     Post Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:21 pm 
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    trotsky wrote:
    I don't see why everybody thinks that traveling through the portal would be particularly useful outside of a narrow set of situations. The only reason why Parson has a chance of not just dying horribly when he goes through to Spacerock is because he happens to already have an army there. If it were just him, even taking the caster's with him, he would be unlikely to do much and, even if he did, he probably would't survive it. Casters and weird, don't-follow-the-rules warlords are too rare and valuable to send on suicide missions.


    Totally agreed.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 45
     Post Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:47 pm 
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    dmorenus wrote:
    You know, meaning Parson! Kizmet is pointing out that Parson is not making any obvious effort to prevent Spacerock or anyone else from counter-attacking using the MK just as he is about to do. If nobody else finds out about his tactic or is able to replicate it, fine, but it does seem like he's about to publish an exploit without protecting himself against it.
    I strongly suspect that units that are not allied or hired or whatever disband when they enter another's portal. So only Parson can really pull this off since he either glitches his way through the portal or is immune to disbands. So its only useful if you have a perfect warlord at your disposal.

    I really wonder what the magic kingdom will try to claim. Will they try and lie and say: "Oh foolish Jetstone he probably just turned to Haggar and re-turned to GK as soon as he got inside. You shouldn't ally treacherous sides in the future." Or something similar?

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