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 Post Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:32 pm 
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Nargrakhan wrote:
Parson Gotti, Lord Hamster, Destroyer of Mountains.

That actually has nice ring to it... but I'd rather it be: Parson Gotti, Lord Hamster, Destroyer of Worlds.

:twisted:


I am become Hamster, destroyer of worlds.

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     Post Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:33 pm 
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    Hiai wrote:
    Great update!

    I love this peek into Jetstone's past. As always, the Royals' names are hilarious and telling. Perhaps that's the audio version of Signamancy?

    Speaking of Signamancy... some are saying that Signamancy is what we would consider natural progression on earth..i.e. sedentary lifestyle+age= fat white king. However, I personally think there's more to this signamancy, and that's why it's being made such a large part of this update.

    The key thing for me is that Slately mentions the being fat and white thing as being Signamancy because he only ever led one battle. Okay, so far being sedentary explains that. But he ALSO said he SHRUNK. One doesn't lose height because one doesn't get out much.

    I think perhaps we ought to be taking Signamancy much more literally than we have been. After all, Jetstone's heirs have all been extremely true-to-form, as well as it's King. Jillian changed when she became Queen. Even Parson is changing as he becomes more fierce.

    Perhaps looking at the illustrations for each character will give us a better ability to predict their nature/actions. More telling would be seeing the change and progression of their appearance over time (obviously subject to the Jamie/Xin changeover limitation).

    Hmmm.....does Sizemore seem a little taller now than he used to be? :D



    when i get home tonight..... or tomarrow morning depending on how long i'm at the studio.. i'll post my parson quick reference progression i did last night.

    i was doing a study in my free time on charter progression as it coincides is appearance and time line .

    i actually have a spread sheet i'm working on to time out the leanth of time spent in erf ,... and was going to start with Parson and have started mapping Jillian as it came up.

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     Post Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:06 pm 
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    CnSvnc wrote:
    Servant? Last I heard, there were no civillians in Erf. Do I detect a faint trail of retconjuration?
    Units are frequently drafted for non-combat purposes. Thats what the Don king likes to do with his warlords after they "earn" it. The dolls of Translovito are apperently constantly used for non-combat purposes. Some overlords even hire archons for such purposes. FAQ used its units as clerks. Courtiers are apperently units explicity popped for non-combat purposes. Nor was it ever really claimed that there are no non-combat units. GK doesn't seem to have all that many; excepting a few twolls. Stanley is probably either less pretentious, doesn't care for "wealth" as much or believes it "royal", so there are no "servents" in GK. Its possible GK has some non-combat miners or farmers now too, but we haven't seen the mines or farms.

    While its true that the "parts of GK we've seen" lack non-combat units, this has not been true for the rest of Erf.

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     Post Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:15 pm 
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    zilfallon wrote:
    The stuff which is "normal" in our world is called "signamancy" in erf. if you only eat and do nothing but sit, you get fat. We think it is natural, erfworlders think it is magic.

    Of course, this is just a part of natural signamancy, since we know that it isn't limited to that. (signamancy which happened to Jillian, for example)
    I'm not at all convinced that "it isn't limited to that." We haven't seen a single example of signamancy which cannot be related to a very natural change which would also occur in our world.

    A) Jillian is losing muscle tone, becoming rounder of cheek and her hair is growing out.
    B) She is no longer the leader of a mercenary troop, which is a very active lifestyle which would keep anyone in good shape. She is now a Queen, and is by necessity spending more time in meetings and less time swinging an improbably large sword and otherwise exerting herself. She is also the Erf equivalent of pregnant, which may have been a part of that message. The hair thing, whatever. :)

    A) Parson is losing chins and taking stairs more easily.
    B) He is no longer working a sedentary job at Kinkos and filling his personal time with equally sedentary gaming activities. Instead he is walking the entirety of GK each day religiously, in the same manner that Jared started losing his weight. Walking may seem like tame exercise, but for the sedentary it pays off in double benefits. Time spent walking is time not spent pursuing sedentary habits, which may often include snacking.

    A) Slately is shrinking, and becoming fat.
    B) We don't know if he popped tall and dashing. But we do know that for ~8 Erf years he has only led from a desk, managed money and a few item assignments. This would tend to make anyone lose muscle tone.

    oslecamo2 wrote:
    Wanda was once a backstabbing manipulator croackmancer. Now she's a backstabbing manipulator croackmancer with an attuned tool! Wait a sec...
    I lol'ed. ;)

    Welf von Ehrwald wrote:
    Erfworld is a depressing place. One look into the mirror and you see your own self. One look, and you know if you're a good or a bad person, and there is nothing you can do about it. That's all you are, and all you ever will be.
    I prefer the take of oslecamo2 and Dr Pepper. It isn't at all that "Ithere is nothing you can do about it", as we have been shown again and again. Units change to better reflect their actions, and this is a thing which can be under a clever or determined enough Unit's control. In Erfworld, you know what you are, true. But you also know that you can or will become the physical representation of your actions.

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     Post Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:12 pm 
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    ftl wrote:
    Oglokoog wrote:
    I hate Slately.


    Huh. Each update that has Slately in it makes me like him more and more, as he's made out to be more competent and less of a bumbling fool.


    ... actually, me too. he's certainly not a capricious idiot the way Stanley is. he's still not a nice guy, but he's definitely being shown as someone who at least knows what his job entails.

    anyways, my take-away from the update is that - man, Jetstone lost a LOT of princes. Should we ask why? if they are/were a strong side, then shouldn't they have been winning battles? Or is this a sign that "even if you win, you lose, because this is how Erfworld is sucky"?

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     Post Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:14 pm 
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    Guppy wrote:
    Jetstone's mob of courtiers and nobles will make great witnesses, assuming they survive.


    question - why are courtiers popped in the first place?

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     Post Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:33 pm 
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    They manage cities, making them more efficient. Basically the same job as Parson did, but presumably they're cheaper because they don't have much for combat skills.

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:08 am 
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    Nargrakhan wrote:
    Parson Gotti, Lord Hamster, Destroyer of Mountains.

    That actually has nice ring to it... but I'd rather it be: Parson Gotti, Lord Hamster, Destroyer of Worlds.

    :twisted:

    Give it time.

    You know, a mountain here, a subcontinent there...

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:34 am 
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    Are we there yet? Are we ready to get the battle going?

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:45 am 
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    Well if there is a reason to hate Slately in there, it would have to be that "spent his lies well" bit. Poor Trem, thinking he's finally got the approval of the father that always favored the big brawny types and didn't really care if he croaked or not, but it's actually just a lie. Tear in his eye, even!

    But this is a really interesting update in terms of the background we get on Erfworld's history.

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:16 am 
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    zilfallon wrote:
    The stuff which is "normal" in our world is called "signamancy" in erf. if you only eat and do nothing but sit, you get fat. We think it is natural, erfworlders think it is magic.


    You don't, however, usually get shorter.

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:16 am 
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    zilfallon wrote:
    The stuff which is "normal" in our world is called "signamancy" in erf. if you only eat and do nothing but sit, you get fat. We think it is natural, erfworlders think it is magic.


    You don't, however, usually get shorter.

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:15 am 
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    DoctorJest wrote:
    zilfallon wrote:
    The stuff which is "normal" in our world is called "signamancy" in erf. if you only eat and do nothing but sit, you get fat. We think it is natural, erfworlders think it is magic.


    You don't, however, usually get shorter.

    i have to agree with the shorter part .

    and reference


    Image

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:32 am 
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    Great update, and I like Slately even more now. Will be a shame to see him go, even though I kinda feel that that's what's going on. More below quote.

    Raza wrote:
    Slately is still very much a fool, just a better explained one, and through the flattering framework of his own perception.

    He's suspicious for all the wrong reasons, even if it's currently leading to what we think is the right conclusion. His grasp of signamancy seems binary, and inadequate in explaining even what little the reader has the chance to know. He's neither curious nor good at reasoning, and compensates with falsehood so that everything keeps running as close as possible to what he's familiar with.


    In this update he's probably right, and showing kindness. This paints him in a good light, but not by virtue of good judgement.


    In a sense, his binary grasp of Signamancy is no different from the Fated aspect of Toolism. You are what you always were, and any "changes" are merely superficial adjustments so that you better represent your true nature.

    As for the value of his judgement, I won't comment in defense. I don't like Slately because he's a smart ruler; I'm one of Stanley's fans, for crying out loud. And just like Stanley, Slately is tragic, but in a slightly different way.

    He's also out of his depth. In his case, the world has changed, and he doesn't fit in it anymore. He's a fossil. And he knows it. However poor his judgement may be, he has the wisdom, and enviable wisdom it is, to step back and let the new blood prove its mettle. Slately does not believe, in his heart of hearts, that Trem is doing right; but at the same time, he knows that it's Trem's time to rule, and chooses to support the prince's decisions.

    So yeah, I kinda liked this character, with all his brutal and, maybe, honest self-appraisal. I also realize that in painting him as a world-weary ruler, I'm claiming that the cycle of life is bound to make a step, and soon, so as to make Trem the new king, and Slately another statue in the hall of Jetstone.

    Assuming of course Jetstone will still have a hall etc.

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:58 am 
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    Do you suppose units pop knowing their own names, or do they have names given to them by their rulers?

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:29 am 
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    Will I imagine that Jillian's father would never have wanted 'zamussels' in FAQ, so I guess she came with the name. Of course, he could have named her that while being derisive. Overall, however, I reckon its the Titan's choice... Rob the Titan in particular :p

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:32 am 
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    Given that even unimportant speaking units have names, I think those get them automatically while others can be named by their leader.

    Edit: Ninja'd, and the Erfworlders would say Titans did it instead of automatically happened.

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:50 am 
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    I<3ChocolateMilk wrote:
    Do you suppose units pop knowing their own names, or do they have names given to them by their rulers?

    Considering that Stanley is always just finding out his units' names, I'd say they pop with them. They probably know their name just like they know their function.

    You could give or adopt nicknames, but presumably they wouldn't become part of a unit's stat block. Unless that is also affected by signamancy.

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:47 am 
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    Quote:
    Forthewin, who could command and conquer


    Am I the only person to spot this reference?

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:16 am 
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    So, would it stand to reason that a name can be related to natural signamancy?

    We're entering into chicken and egg territory here, but in this world where your appearance is indicative of the person that you are or the person that you are becoming, should we really be asking ourselves: What's in a name*?

    *My apologies for going all Carrie Bradshaw on ya'll.

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