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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 44
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:54 pm 
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Wanda is a GK unit, but her loyalty to GK is 0 she owes absolutely nothing to Stanley.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 44
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:08 am 
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    Honestly, until I bothered to look up Skeletor's Staff (which it is), I hazard'd to believe it was the Hellstaff from Heretic.

    Image

    I would've loved to see Hamster blast someone in Corvus' style, to be sure. Still, can't wait to see where this goes. There's too much on the table to sort it all out right now ^_^

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 44
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:39 am 
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    Decorus wrote:
    Wanda is a GK unit, but her loyalty to GK is 0 she owes absolutely nothing to Stanley.


    I think she believes he and she are fated to be on the same side, since both are Arkentool users. Not that she couldn't change her mind.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 44
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:35 am 
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    Decorus wrote:
    Wanda is a GK unit, but her loyalty to GK is 0 she owes absolutely nothing to Stanley.


    She owes Hamster. A LOT! And Hamster is bound to Stanley.

    Whitout Hamster, Wanda would've never gained the pliers (she even thanks him at the end of book 1), and she's seen firsthand what the supreme warlord can do. She won't put herself in a position where she's a target for the supreme military genius.

    Plus the Tool fanatism.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 44
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:42 am 
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    oslecamo2 wrote:
    She owes Hamster. A LOT! And Hamster is bound to Stanley.


    For the moment.

    oslecamo2 wrote:
    Whitout Hamster, Wanda would've never gained the pliers (she even thanks him at the end of book 1), and she's seen firsthand what the supreme warlord can do. She won't put herself in a position where she's a target for the supreme military genius.

    Plus the Tool fanatism.


    Wanda sees Parson as a tool of Fate and or the world "You didn't wish for this world Parson Gotti. It wished for you." (Which he might actually be) And since she belives in Fate above all else she will always be loyal to Parson in some form. Also I suspect that Parson is about the only person Wanda ever opened up to about the Arkenpliers and may be the only person she will ever trust wiht that information. She really is more a Hampsterist than a Toolist. Toolism is something that Stanley belives in. Wanda "belives" in the Tools, but clealry has a lot more to it than that. She may even be part of the Break the World group in the Magic Kingdom.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 44
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:28 am 
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    Oberon wrote:
    Ossomer, once captured, would have lost his "CWL" and "Heir" (if he ever was) status.


    http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F040a.jpg

    Parson's Klog wrote:
    They may also have natural abilities. Some of these include flight, fire, regeneration, poison, and probably a million more I don't know about yet. Leadership also counts as one. Any unit with leadership ability is called a "Commander" or "Warlord". These units give a bonus to units under their command.
    Emphasis mine.

    What I'd like to know is if CWL is a transferrable Special, or is it static like Leadership/Archery/Fire is? And is Heir also on the Special list, and is it a transferrable Special (if it is a Special), or does it float around invisibly like Loyalty?

    Also, is it lost when a unit is captured, or when a unit is croaked? Does capturing merely suppress CWL/Heir, or does it completely wipe it from the table? At least if it were suppressed there would be an incentive to rescue. I doubt it just gets wiped on capturing, though, otherwise you would have sides kidnapping designated heirs all the time to financially cripple their opponents, or at least considering "Heir" targets to be high priority. Although, that said, sending your heir out into battle isn't exactly the wisest thing in the world either, so it's hard to see anything special about being an "Heir" other than the indication that a large amount of schmuckers have been blown on you.

    Also, why does Charlie dangle the Heir money in front of Tram so hard? Is there another benefit associated with it that we're not aware of, or is it Charlie just showing that it would be good sense to have an heir designate regardless? And why would Charlie offer Tram, and indirectly Jetstone, the opportunity of designating an heir and then have Tram dismiss that entirely?
    After all, if Tram is so assured of their current tactical superiority and he knows Charlie to withold information, something like being offered heir designation for free should have piqued his interest and given Charlie's warnings a little bit more weight than this current display of a firvolous-excited-puppy-dog-Tram that's about to trot off into parley as if it's a bit of a chat over tea and cucumber sandwiches.

    What interests me is that we didn't get to see what happened to Jillian's units when she was still a barbarian and got captured for Wanda's pleasure. Did they enter a state of neutrality, or were they subbed by the alliance they had with Jetstone. She states that she joined the RCC I for more reasons than just the money, so she must have been receiving a subsidy per turn from the RCC I for her support in the war effort so that she could keep supporting her units (otherwise, at 1,400 schmuckers for a one-way Thinkagram via Charlescom nearly emptying her purse she was being paid an absolute pittance by the RCC, which makes her even bigger a fool).
    So what happened to her units while she was held captive? They seemed really happy to see her when she was released, so perhaps her leadership over them was merely suppressed and not removed while she was captured?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 44
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:49 am 
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    Anybody else have the "Rocky" theme playing in their head reading this one? A very cinematic sequence.

    Really like how the art has developed.
    The art has slowly evolved into being more realistic, and with Parson's eyes now becoming Erfworldly it seems that this is conveying how Parson is integrating into this reality. Very subtle and beautifully done over time.

    It is an almost cliched build up so I suspect there may be reverses and subversions of the image still to come: he's a tactical genius, all tooled up with magical weapons and all, but it's still Parson, he's as likely to trip on his own cloak as anything.

    Assuming he does somehow get to JS, Trem will likely think he is trying to pull the same trick as he did on Ansom and it's a double, Surprise! it's the real thing this time.

    On Charlie using reverse psychology to get Trem to parley with Parson. If this gets Parson to JS then he is out of the GK stronghold, his force will be depleted by the end of the battle even if he does win and he's stuck in JS for a turn. Charlie has next move and could capture Wanda AND Parson in one swell foop. A variation of the 'grab Wanda' plan with a bigger prize.


    Last edited by gazes also on Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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     Post subject: crazy speculation
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:56 am 
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    1) Parson kills Stately
    2) Ossomer becomes leader
    3) Wanda orders him to promote her to be his heir
    4) Wanda kills Ossomer

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 44
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:55 pm 
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    Quote:
    by nth » Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:56 am

    1) Parson kills Stately
    2) Ossomer becomes leader
    3) Wanda orders him to promote her to be his heir
    4) Wanda kills Ossomer


    5) Stanley order Wanda to promote him to be her heir
    6) Stanley disbands Wanda
    7) Charlie assassinates Stanley
    8) Charlie conquers GK
    9) Jillian kills Charlie for killing the killer of Wanda, when that was clearly her job
    9) Philosoraptor pops as FAQ heir
    10) Philosoraptor inhereits the Erf

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     Post subject: Re: crazy speculation
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:02 pm 
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    nth wrote:
    1) Parson kills Stately
    2) Ossomer becomes leader
    3) Wanda orders him to promote her to be his heir
    4) Wanda kills Ossomer


    So...which loyalty is stronger? I mean, if Wanda becomes Ossomer's heir, it means that Ossomer is her ruler. Will the mind-control of Arkenpliers prove stronger than the game-mechanics? Will they let the heir kill her ruler easly?

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     Post subject: Re: crazy speculation
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:18 pm 
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    zilfallon wrote:
    So...which loyalty is stronger? I mean, if Wanda becomes Ossomer's heir, it means that Ossomer is her ruler. Will the mind-control of Arkenpliers prove stronger than the game-mechanics? Will they let the heir kill her ruler easly?


    Pliers fanatism overrides even Chief Warlord status. Ansom could only shut up when Wanda said she was charging ahead by herself.

    However...

    -Ossomer is still a GK unit. IF he inherits Jetstone, then Stanley is still his ruler. You need to kill Stanley. That is a melee monster with an honor guard of fanatic flying dwagons. Good luck with that even with her decrypted army.

    -Only the Chief Warlord and the leader can give orders to spend money I believe. So even if Ossomer becomes the ruler, Wanda still needs to find the cash to pay her heirship.

    -We don't even know if mancers can be nominated heirs. It seems like you need to be a warlord to rule in Erfworld.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 44
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:41 pm 
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    http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F040a.jpg

    I wonder why he doesn't where these... besides the fact they look completely ridiculous, won't he need them to analyze units in the field?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 44
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:50 pm 
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    I<3ChocolateMilk wrote:
    So what happened to her units while she was held captive? They seemed really happy to see her when she was released, so perhaps her leadership over them was merely suppressed and not removed while she was captured?
    Why does the leadership have to be surpessed at all? Perhaps you can have an overlord to side A be a unit of side B? Hmm... evil overlord idea: Pop a prince/princess. Have them splinter off. Have them turn back (possible use of brainwashing here.) You now have a pet side, with new casters and new unit build lists from the new capital ect.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 44
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:21 pm 
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    Raileks wrote:
    http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F040a.jpg

    I wonder why he doesn't where these... besides the fact they look completely ridiculous, won't he need them to analyze units in the field?


    [wild speculation] Does the change in his eyes in this page mean he can now see stats directly? [/wild speculation]

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 44
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:48 pm 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool This user is a part of Erfworld canon! Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
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    splintermute wrote:
    It's clearly a Wienerrammer-skin cloak. Since they're heavies that are used as battering rams, they clearly have tough skin - maybe it's bullet/arrowproof?

    In the Nibelungenlied, Mime forged (and Alberich, and then Fafner and then Siegfried stole) the Tarnhelm, which is a hat, and allows you to change forms.

    justamessenger wrote:
    BCCroaker wrote:
    Since most of this kit is loaded with media references how about this-
    Tattered cloak = tarnkappe or cloak of invisibility, most recently seen in the Harry Potter books and movies. Parson hits the power button and bingo! The easy way to go through the MK without trouble.
    And maybe job Slately and Trem.


    Ah, like Siegried in Wagner's Nibelungenleid? That was a cape or cloak wasn't it? That makes perfect sense!


    No, its a cloak in the poem (kappe as in cape not cap) and rendered Siegfried invisible not changing his shape. Wagner changed it to a helm etc for the opera (Der Ring des Nibelungen not the Nibelungenlied) - probably worked better on stage for Siegfried to take Gunther's form. Also a quick google informs me that it was a cloak of invisiblity in most other forms of the story.
    Anyway, this is irrelvant to my original post which was citing Harry Potter's use of it, since all the rest of the known kit is from TV and movie sources.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 44
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:30 pm 
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    Raileks wrote:
    http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F040a.jpg

    I wonder why he doesn't where these... besides the fact they look completely ridiculous, won't he need them to analyze units in the field?



    I speculate it is for artistic license to show the emotion/expression on Parson's face. I'm sure when its necessary he will don them.

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     Post subject: Re: crazy speculation
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:32 pm 
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    zilfallon wrote:
    nth wrote:
    1) Parson kills Stately
    2) Ossomer becomes leader
    3) Wanda orders him to promote her to be his heir
    4) Wanda kills Ossomer


    So...which loyalty is stronger? I mean, if Wanda becomes Ossomer's heir, it means that Ossomer is her ruler. Will the mind-control of Arkenpliers prove stronger than the game-mechanics? Will they let the heir kill her ruler easly?


    Rulers might be able to step down. If so, Wanda might not need to order Ossomer to adbicate to her; he might do it spontaneously.

    The biggest problem with the above is that Wanda should expect Stanley to have a hostile reaction, which would impede her quest to unite the Arkentools.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 44
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:43 pm 
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    Almaseti wrote:
    fjolnir wrote:
    Also for Signamancy, Parson has seemed to lose his pupils in the closeup...


    Good catch, but looking back the the archives, Parson has been pupil-less since... at least when he decided to uncroak the volcano. Pinpointing the exact comic will have to come at a time that isn't 1am, though.

    i did it goes allll the way back to parson first few comics in erf world and like his watch it's inconsistent .



    if you want i'll do a wiki page on mistakes and bloopers .
    but that comes from working in Hollywood and having to do a LOT of frame by frame QCing.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 44
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:41 pm 
    E is for Erfworld Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
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    joosy wrote:
    Raileks wrote:
    http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F040a.jpg

    I wonder why he doesn't where these... besides the fact they look completely ridiculous, won't he need them to analyze units in the field?



    I speculate it is for artistic license to show the emotion/expression on Parson's face. I'm sure when its necessary he will don them.


    Yeah, I agree. It's easier to show expression and emotion when the guy isn't wearing shades that cover his eyes.

    As fans, we can handwave it away by saying "at this point, he's gamed enough scenarios that he knows roughly what each unit's stats are", or that he's learned to see the natural signamancy that goes with being more powerful, or that he just peeks through them when he needs to, or that when he asks the bracer something it takes into account those stats anyway. There might be other guesses.

    But it comes down to the fact that out-of-universe, it makes the art a bit better if he isn't always wearing them.

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     Post subject: Re: crazy speculation
     Post Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:59 am 
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    zilfallon wrote:
    nth wrote:
    1) Parson kills Stately
    2) Ossomer becomes leader
    3) Wanda orders him to promote her to be his heir
    4) Wanda kills Ossomer


    So...which loyalty is stronger? I mean, if Wanda becomes Ossomer's heir, it means that Ossomer is her ruler. Will the mind-control of Arkenpliers prove stronger than the game-mechanics? Will they let the heir kill her ruler easly?


    Irrelevant. Ossomer isn't on the Jetstone side anymore, as he's been turned. Ossomer cannot make anyone heir let alone the king or queen of Jetstone. He's no longer of Jetstone.

    It's like when a Princess woos a General in Total War and convinces him to change sides. Even if he's the faction heir, he ceases being on that side and joins the other side. If he were Faction Heir, it is mechanically the same as if the faction heir had died. Which in this case, he did, too.

    I mean come on, don't any of you people even play turn based strategy games?

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