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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 40
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:40 pm 
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If a unit's uniform is damaged, for example if a sleeve is torn off, it will be restored the next day. If they shoot arrows their quivers will be refilled the next day. I would imagine the same would hold for spears, shields and helmets that are broken in fighting.

If this is the case then (major speculation) isn't it possible that Parson's sword (granted it seems more like a magic item) would be restored by normal erfworld mechanics after it was lost? If (and its a big if) that is so couldn't he be going to the armory to get the sword of ruthlessness? He would be reluctant to reclaim it but might feel he has no choice. It would fit his current mood. I know it is speculation but it wouldn't be hard to write into the plot and its not as bad as some of the other speculation :)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 40
     Post Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:26 pm 
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    Fug wrote:
    If a unit's uniform is damaged, for example if a sleeve is torn off, it will be restored the next day. If they shoot arrows their quivers will be refilled the next day. I would imagine the same would hold for spears, shields and helmets that are broken in fighting.
    Broken is presumably different that destroyed. Note how a unit heals to full at the next turn as long as it was not destroyed?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 40
     Post Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:52 pm 
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    Fug wrote:
    If a unit's uniform is damaged, for example if a sleeve is torn off, it will be restored the next day. If they shoot arrows their quivers will be refilled the next day. I would imagine the same would hold for spears, shields and helmets that are broken in fighting.

    If this is the case then (major speculation) isn't it possible that Parson's sword (granted it seems more like a magic item) would be restored by normal erfworld mechanics after it was lost? If (and its a big if) that is so couldn't he be going to the armory to get the sword of ruthlessness? He would be reluctant to reclaim it but might feel he has no choice. It would fit his current mood. I know it is speculation but it wouldn't be hard to write into the plot and its not as bad as some of the other speculation :)


    Hmm...I could see that happening with a normal Erf unit that spawns with their weaponry but Parson didn't spawn with the sword, since Bogroll made it for him after the fact, I do not know if it would work. Would be kinda cool if it did though.

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:52 pm 
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    Levor wrote:
    I'm wondering if Charlie is more or less motivated in the way he represents himself. Charlie is content with a single city, isn't interested in trying to conquer anything in his own right, certainly doesn't want to take over the world. He just wants the 'game' to keep going on forever and so is constantly involved in stirring up further conflict by helping whoever will pay him and then switching to the other side when they pay him for a contract that trumps the original contract. Charlie enjoys the game for its own sake, and amassing the money and favours that extend his ability to be involved. He's a bit like Data's 'winning' strategy in "Peak Performance" - never tries to win, so never risks being destroyed, but, unlike FAQ pre-Queen Jillian, is actively involved in broader conflicts, and so therefore is part of the problem.


    It's possible, I guess, especially if Erfworld were an actuality and not a story.

    But I think that, storywise, Charlie's more likely to have some ambition deep down inside. I've always seen Charlie as being Erfworld's eventual final/semi-final boss (pending a plot twist somewhere), launching his own plot while Parson is breaking everything and eventually coming down to one last showdown. He's this really mysterious guy who keeps working to make himself ever more indispensable to Erfworld's sides, becoming more and more influential and powerful in the process. As a story goes, I just have a gut feeling that's going to lead up to something somewhere. It'd feel like an anticlimax for big bad Charlie, with his Arkentool, nigh-impenetrable fortress, and continually growing might to want only to be a bystander whose primary goal is just to maintain status quo and keep himself in calculated servitude.

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    And, if the Hippiemancer in the Magic Kingdom was more-or-less on the money, that, ironically, makes Charlie the Big Bad Guy in the overarching plot. If Hamster's true goal (narratively or given to him by erfworld) is to bring an end to the internicine warfare by defeating everyone, then Charlie is the one force that is truly his opposite - promoting warfare not for himself (in the sense that he has no interest in expanding his territory), but simply for its own sake.


    Agreed, yes, on Charlie being the Big Bad. I foresee Charlie being Parson's end opponent (or very close to it), but I don't think Charlie just wants to keep things as is forever. At some point, if current trends keep up, Charlie is going to have a network that encompasses most, if not all, of Erfworld. As a character in a story, I'd think it a bit boring if he just wanted to maintain the way things are now for all eternity. The way I think the Charlie-Parson showdown would go is Charlie's launching his own plans as the final obstacle to Parson's own -- basically, two ways for Erfworld to change, neither of them being the same.

    I mean, I can kind of see Charlie being the way your theory would present him to be, I just don't think it'd be particularly dramatic.

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    No-one, including the reader, believes that it could be that simple because, as Charlie says, no-one believes what he gives away for free. And the reader (and Hamster) got this info fairly 'cheaply'.


    I dunno, I'd think it more of an anti-climax if Charlie's scheme is just keeping things as-is forever, instead of something at least fairly grandiose and complex like we're all expecting. When there's a mysterious and powerful overlord in the equation, I figure it's supposed to be more complex than simple. Anything less just kind of makes me question why he's presented as being so big and mysterious in the first place.

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:30 pm 
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    Watsit Hoohow wrote:
    I dunno, I'd think it more of an anti-climax if Charlie's scheme is just keeping things as-is forever, instead of something at least fairly grandiose and complex like we're all expecting. When there's a mysterious and powerful overlord in the equation, I figure it's supposed to be more complex than simple. Anything less just kind of makes me question why he's presented as being so big and mysterious in the first place.


    Also, it would show a lot of foresight for him to put so much effort into keeping his pro-war motivation secret, when it seems that the anti-war desires of Trammenis, Janis and Sizemore have been far from mainstream in Erfworld. I don't think Charlie would lose many clients if he openly announced, "I like war and if you come close to ending war in Erfworld, my gratitude for our past business dealings will not stop me from undermining you." I guess if clients feared he would sabotage his thinkagram service when the subject was peace negotiations, that would affect him, but that's kind of a corner case.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 40
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:11 am 
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    Lamech wrote:
    Broken is presumably different that destroyed. Note how a unit heals to full at the next turn as long as it was not destroyed?


    So maybe... Since at least some of the sword popped with Parson's food... It will be destroyed when the last of his food has escaped his digestive system?

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     Post Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:20 am 
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    Levor wrote:
    He's a bit like Data's 'winning' strategy in "Peak Performance" - never tries to win, so never risks being destroyed,


    ST:TNG References, how sad, of course the worst part is that I remember that episode.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 40
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:56 am 
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    Lamech wrote:
    Fug wrote:
    If a unit's uniform is damaged, for example if a sleeve is torn off, it will be restored the next day. If they shoot arrows their quivers will be refilled the next day. I would imagine the same would hold for spears, shields and helmets that are broken in fighting.
    Broken is presumably different that destroyed. Note how a unit heals to full at the next turn as long as it was not destroyed?


    These are both good points. I cant think of any other reason for Parson to go the Armory. (i cant buy the whole "teleporting extra weapons to use as missiles" thing)

    And it kinda makes sense thematically. At the end of book 1, Parson broke out of the "Character" role in Erfworld. He threw away his sword (which is probably a duty breach, since its actually useful to the side) and shattered the profanity filter.

    He stood aside for a while, and we watched Jillian/Wanda/Ansom/Ossomer continue to play out the relentless snuff movie that is day-to-day life on Erfworld, until Maggie drags him back into play via her suggestion to Stanley.

    Now Parson, very reluctantly picks up the game again. He literally adds himself to the game board, and it would make make perfect sense for him to go find the Sword again. I can imagine him getting it from under a pile of rubbish "I tried to throw it away, but it popped again next morning. I dont like it, but I'll need it." kinda thing...

    I mean, whats the first thing a character does before entering combat? They buff.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 40
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:08 am 
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    Smoker wrote:
    Lamech wrote:
    Fug wrote:
    If a unit's uniform is damaged, for example if a sleeve is torn off, it will be restored the next day. If they shoot arrows their quivers will be refilled the next day. I would imagine the same would hold for spears, shields and helmets that are broken in fighting.
    Broken is presumably different that destroyed. Note how a unit heals to full at the next turn as long as it was not destroyed?


    These are both good points. I cant think of any other reason for Parson to go the Armory. (i cant buy the whole "teleporting extra weapons to use as missiles" thing)

    And it kinda makes sense thematically. At the end of book 1, Parson broke out of the "Character" role in Erfworld. He threw away his sword (which is probably a duty breach, since its actually useful to the side) and shattered the profanity filter.

    He stood aside for a while, and we watched Jillian/Wanda/Ansom/Ossomer continue to play out the relentless snuff movie that is day-to-day life on Erfworld, until Maggie drags him back into play via her suggestion to Stanley.

    Now Parson, very reluctantly picks up the game again. He literally adds himself to the game board, and it would make make perfect sense for him to go find the Sword again. I can imagine him getting it from under a pile of rubbish "I tried to throw it away, but it popped again next morning. I dont like it, but I'll need it." kinda thing...

    I mean, whats the first thing a character does before entering combat? They buff.


    Good points. Also, that sword, along with other Stupid Meal items, is supposed to "fix" the spell and make Parson a totally Perfect Warlord. So, his only "weakness" is his low level, attack, def and such. So...if that Sword, which makes him Perfect Warlord gives him Combat Bonuses...I can't imagine the outcome if he actually fought in front lines with those items(maybe they are artifacts, since mathamancy bracer is rumored to be one)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 40
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:20 am 
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    On going to pick up the Sword of Ruthlessness from the Armory, good points all around. It would make logical sense in the way Erfworld functions, and in terms of whatever tactical advantage Parson may need at some future point.

    However, (and bear in mind that this is nowhere near the level of my distaste for a certain spell) it's not the best development, story-wise.

    Yes, Parson realizes he needs to step back into command. Presumably however, he does so with a new understanding of what that command is, and of what it entails for the persons under his command.

    To go and retrieve the Sword of Ruthlessness is, even if only at a symbolic level, a step backwards, and in terms of story it undermines both Parson's so far progress and a very touching F-Bomb way at the end of Book 1.

    Again, if he does go and retrieve the Sword of Ruthlessness, colour me unsurprised and not particularly disappointed. As a slight matter of taste however, it's not the best thing that can happen, imo.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 40
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:58 am 
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    I'd actually prefer a little if he went not to get a Sword of Ruthlessness, but just a plain, non-ruthlessness-granting sword.

    Symbolically, it can mean a similar thing. He's ready and willing to do ruthless things. But he can do it HIMSELF, in control, and not relinquishing control or using as an excuse a magical sword which affects his mind. In that way, it's a step forward instead of a step back.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 40
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:30 am 
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    To go and retrieve the Sword of Ruthlessness is, even if only at a symbolic level, a step backwards, and in terms of story it undermines both Parson's so far progress and a very touching F-Bomb way at the end of Book 1.


    Agreed, but I wouldn't call it a bad thing, story-wise. I mean, the SoR is a symbol of Erfworlds control over Parson, which for him is probably going to be a re-occuring theme. (Just like Jillians themes seem to be about control by other people) So by my thinking, now that Parson is back in the game, it wouldn't be totally unrealistic for the sword to re-appear, (although I dont really expect it will, -I believe in lava.)

    ftl wrote:
    I'd actually prefer a little if he went not to get a Sword of Ruthlessness, but just a plain, non-ruthlessness-granting sword.

    Symbolically, it can mean a similar thing. He's ready and willing to do ruthless things. But he can do it HIMSELF, in control, and not relinquishing control or using as an excuse a magical sword which affects his mind. In that way, it's a step forward instead of a step back.


    This is also good, although I think Parson is a bit too.. pragmatic? (wrong word?).. to do that. If there wasn't a practical reason for doing it, I dont think he'd bother.

    Damnit what is that boy up to?


    EDIT: also one point I wanted to make, was that Parson has already conceeded the fact that he's going to lose a lot of units in this next play. I think he's being ruthless enough without the sword - I'd see it more as taking the leadership bonus. Doesn't every unit on the side get some percentage of his bonus? Maybe he needs to struggle with the sword again to summon his own leadership, then again for combat? But thats getting pretty far (ie too far) ahead..

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 40
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:42 am 
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    Smoker wrote:
    Agreed, but I wouldn't call it a bad thing, story-wise. I mean, the SoR is a symbol of Erfworlds control over Parson, which for him is probably going to be a re-occuring theme.


    A recurring theme need not imply stagnation.

    Also, Parson may be ruthless, but I much prefer ftl's take on that.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 40
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:54 am 
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    This is actually kinda thought provoking.. What do you suppose Parson's motivation is at the moment? Is he just playing the game because he's there, or is he trying to save his friend/s lives?

    The answer to that, I think, determines if he's moving forward or backwards, regardless of the SoR's hypothetical re-appearance.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 40
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:08 am 
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    I think the answer to 'What's Parson up to in the Armor?' is a bit more straightforward.
    I think he just needs to look at all the equipment that his troops are carrying, so he can figure out how to improvise dropped weapons for them.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 40
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:20 am 
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    MarbitChow wrote:
    I think the answer to 'What's Parson up to in the Armor?' is a bit more straightforward.
    I think he just needs to look at all the equipment that his troops are carrying, so he can figure out how to improvise dropped weapons for them.


    Definitely a possibility, but I wouldn't put money on it...

    Summer Updates 6 wrote:
    Parson frowned, and played with his bracer. With some basic touch commands and subvocalizations, he was able to build a scenario. This city, this tower, a unit like me attempts a missile attack on a unit like Stanley, on ground in courtyard. Odds.

    "One in about 5400, it says. So, what, I'd be acting like a defending archery unit then? Even though I don't have archery as a special? Any of us could throw a brick and hit an enemy down there, even though we aren't archers?"

    Sizemore shrugged. "If we had bricks."

    So anyone with something to throw or shoot could be an archery unit. They'd just have to have the archery special to have any real chance of hitting a target. But maybe something like Luckamancy could be used to change those odds? Parson leaned forward and squinted at the tiny figure of Stanley, still mounted on his dwagon. "Good to know."


    Wanda may indeed have some luckamancy scrolls on her, but they would almost certainly have been mentioned by now, particularly when Wanda was discussing tactics with Sylvia and Jack.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 40
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:19 pm 
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    we must remember his OTHER experiment during the summer updates to really figure out the plan with the armory, his attempt at riding banana proved that dwagons have a maximum upward weight limit, combine that with off-turn resupplying from the ARMORY it quickly becomes clear that he's going to attempt a max weight dwagon crash over hostile territory to ensure max coverage of his "dropped bricks"

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 40
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:58 pm 
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    Hmm, interesting idea.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 40
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:04 pm 
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    fjolnir wrote:
    we must remember his OTHER experiment during the summer updates to really figure out the plan with the armory, his attempt at riding banana proved that dwagons have a maximum upward weight limit, combine that with off-turn resupplying from the ARMORY it quickly becomes clear that he's going to attempt a max weight dwagon crash over hostile territory to ensure max coverage of his "dropped bricks"


    That's what would make sense in our world, but Erfworld is built out of blanket rules that are enforced in odd ways. The moral I took from this update (http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2 ... inting.png) is that Pason can't ride a dwagon because he's a "heavy" unit rather than that he is too heavy to ride a dwagon.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 40
     Post Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:06 pm 
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    fjolnir wrote:
    ...combine that with off-turn resupplying from the ARMORY it quickly becomes clear that...


    This theory keeps getting put forward, but I cant recall a page where something was summoned from the armory OR the larder, on or off turn.

    There are, however, a few pages that discourage this notion:

    1) Bogroll manually delivering extra rations to Parson, off turn.
    2) Stanley walking to the larder for a snack, which was his excuse for leaving a room (how would that justify leaving the room if he could just summon extra rations to pop in front of him?)
    3) Wanda disarming Ossomer - he would definitely have summoned a new sword the instant the old one left his hands.
    4) That Warlord (I think from Sofa King) who calls out for a sword when he's attacked by golems.

    That's off the top of my head...

    The only time I have seen rations pop, is when its the start of turn, and it happened automatically, along with cleaning and healing. If you could summon resupply/rations off turn, why not cleaning too? Heck why not healing? Or move refresh??

    But maybe I'm missing something and this is totally possible..If this is the case, can someone please link me?

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