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 Post Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:42 am 
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More tinfoil hattery:

What if Charlie wanted to remove Ansom not because he was distracting Jillian, but because he was distracting Parson? Charlie seems to have been taking world-breaking lessons from Parson, and they couldn't continue unless Parson was CWL. Charlie isn't motivated by money, or Toolism, or anything - he set up this situation just so he could see what Parson would do.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:09 am 
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    Oh happy-happy-joy-joy, my ab fav character gets an update. Wee. But hey, like her or not Jillian is the main character of Erfworld so what did I expect.

    I like KiltedNinja's theory (it would surely make Hoax very happy) and also splintermute's- even though I'm not convinced that Charlie wants or needs schooling.

    Now, back to Jill-Ansom. What do you think will happen? We exclude the Love Conquers All scenario because nope. And no need to mention that eventually Jillian will (try to) kill Wanda because obvious. How will the Ansom situation be resolved though?

    Impossible to turn, he's kept in the attic as some grotesque pet or chained in the guest hall as some conversation piece? Maybe locked in the shed playing video games? Surrounded by veils in the Fooladeck, believing to be once again at Wanda's side (who's not really Wanda)? Is Ansom turnable, but the result is merely a competent warlord robot, good on the battlefield but completely devoid of emotion? Maybe, dejected by the cruelty of Fate to have forever removed her lover, Jillian turns to SCIENCE and cuts Ansom in a million little pieces then sews them back together into shoggothian shapes? Maybe she journeys to Hades looking for Ansom's moral agency, wins it over from the Titans of the underworld, but loses it again by looking back before a certain time passed?

    What says yall?

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:17 am 
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    As much as I like the updates, I sure wish Jillian would just die. I was looking forward to Issue 2 being Jillian free. :|

    Bet Charlie is so pissed, though.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:52 am 
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    I hope that hexes with rain are foreshadowing, you know, dark sky + thunder + lighting + arkenhammer + rocking out on dwagons + Jillian on gwiffins soaked with water, that be nice

    And while I also like KiltedNinja's idea, I don't think Ansom is the guy for backstabbing. He refrained from hating Stanley because of his principles, so he will stuck to them not matter what.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:33 am 
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    I get the felling that this is going to be the start of Jillian learning a few things the hard way.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:10 am 
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    Sieggy wrote:
    I sure hope she didn't name that Megalogwiff 'Fluffer' . . . I have to wonder if Ansom even recalls his previous love for Jillian, or whether the decryption process simply refocuses devotion to the decyptor. I mean, even if you break up with a GF you've loved, there are still some feelings left. It doesn't seem like there are any, and you can see Ansom trying to comprehend Jillian's feelings. Unsuccessfuly.

    Ansom's comment "I was that much-- I was that severe a tactical distraction?" gives me the impression that at least some of his old feelings remain, but he's trying not to show them.

    KiltedNinja wrote:
    <Tinfoil Hat>
    At some point soonly, there will be some exchange between Jillian and Ansom, resulting in Ansom "remembering his old feelings" and convincing Jillian that he's "back to normal"...

    meanwhile..

    He's secretly not back to normal at all - He lulls Jillian into a false sense of security...

    I don't think Ansom has it in him to engage in that sort of game; he's just too direct and straightforward. Even if he tried for some reason, it would probably work about as well as Ossomer's attempt to trash-talk Duncan.

    cdrcjsn wrote:
    Was this post the first indication that we had that there were weather conditions on erfworld?

    No; we saw it during Jillian's trip to meet Don King.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:34 am 
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    Why do I think that Jillian's fear of Charlie is well founded? That leads me to believe that he will screw over Jillian soon by removing Vanna as he is covering her upkeep. I wonder if Don King knows how dire it is for FAQ if they cannot afford the upkeep for a heir? Good update over all filled with a good side information. I feel that this conversation will hold much relevance in the future if FAQ is still around when sides turn against Charlie.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:56 am 
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    I just wanted to say that I really like the way Ansom looks in the sketch at the end of the strip.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:49 pm 
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    This update is disheartening for several reasons:

    1) Jillian ranks somewhere between Wanda (the fish, not the croakamancer) and Wrigley (the dust) in the list of characters I'd like to read an update about. Actually, an update about Wrigley's dust could end up being pretty informative! What happens to the dust? Does it disappear with the other bodies?

    2) It adds another conversation to the pre-something happening queue. Jillian+Charlie.

    3) It implies that Jillian is not yet done messing with things.

    I'll just have to trust the story to be awesome, but this is starting to feel like Roy in the afterlife.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:55 pm 
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    effataigus wrote:
    This update is disheartening for several reasons:

    1) Jillian ranks somewhere between Wanda (the fish, not the croakamancer) and Wrigley (the dust) in the list of characters I'd like to read an update about. Actually, an update about Wrigley's dust could end up being pretty informative! What happens to the dust? Does it disappear with the other bodies?

    2) It adds another conversation to the pre-something happening queue. Jillian+Charlie.

    3) It implies that Jillian is not yet done messing with things.

    I'll just have to trust the story to be awesome, but this is starting to feel like Roy in the afterlife.


    You (the general you, not you specifically) are aware that there is stuff going on in the lives of Rob and Xin, right? Remember, the people who do this for us, for free, because they like doing it? And that more substantive updates may still be down the road a piece?

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:45 pm 
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    Chris Goodwin wrote:
    You (the general you, not you specifically) are aware that there is stuff going on in the lives of Rob and Xin, right? Remember, the people who do this for us, for free, because they like doing it? And that more substantive updates may still be down the road a piece?


    I am with you on defending Rob and Xin, but I do think it's a bit of a stretch to say they are doing it for free; there is certainly actual and potential profit to be had here, which IMO is right and good.

    Of course, that fact aside, I do not believe anyone should have any sense of entitlement as to updates. You can't rush good art or writing, and there is no direct privity between the fans and author/artist.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:08 pm 
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    Chris Goodwin wrote:
    You (the general you, not you specifically) are aware that there is stuff going on in the lives of Rob and Xin, right? Remember, the people who do this for us, for free,
    because they like doing it? And that more substantive updates may still be down the road a piece?


    I don' t think he complained about the timing of the updates, but the content of the update.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:22 pm 
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    Chris Goodwin wrote:
    effataigus wrote:
    This update is disheartening for several reasons:

    1) Jillian ranks somewhere between Wanda (the fish, not the croakamancer) and Wrigley (the dust) in the list of characters I'd like to read an update about. Actually, an update about Wrigley's dust could end up being pretty informative! What happens to the dust? Does it disappear with the other bodies?

    2) It adds another conversation to the pre-something happening queue. Jillian+Charlie.

    3) It implies that Jillian is not yet done messing with things.

    I'll just have to trust the story to be awesome, but this is starting to feel like Roy in the afterlife.


    You (the general you, not you specifically) are aware that there is stuff going on in the lives of Rob and Xin, right? Remember, the people who do this for us, for free, because they like doing it? And that more substantive updates may still be down the road a piece?


    Aye, t'was not meant as an attack... just posting my reaction to the page. I contend (without citing any evidence) that online episodic content tends to go downhill when the creators pander to vocal forumites. This is Rob, Xin, and Jamie's vision and it is wonderful. That said, I do a fair bit of a very different kind of writing for my job, and I almost invariably find readers' reactions to be helpful... especially when they aren't the reactions I was going for.

    I am a tool, but I'm also a cheapskate so I waited until they earned my money many times over before I sent them anything... I certainly don't feel entitled to anything they haven't already delivered.

    I made a comment that could be paraphrased as "the pace is slow." I didn't mean in real time so much as in plot-advancement per update. We've learned some very interesting history recently, but most of book 2 has been on-screen chatting... as was much of book 1 come to think of it, but this time around I feel like I'm waiting for the characters to figure stuff out instead of figuring stuff out myself. Definitely don't mean to rush quality!

    Now that I'm done trying to justify and qualify what I wrote, I'll also say that my post did sound harsher than I had intended... my rhetoric got away from me there!

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:52 pm 
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    I also vote for Jillian learning the hard way.

    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    Impossible to turn, he's kept in the attic as some grotesque pet or chained in the guest hall as some conversation piece? ...
    What says yall?



    After being Jillian's kept pet for a while, and proving impossible to turn, Jillian decides it's wrong to keep someone who can't change or doesn't want to change. Furthermore, she realizes it's not up to her to change other people's opinions of her, but there's in fact little she can do about others' feelings.

    Jillian then let's Ansom go.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:06 pm 
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    effataigus wrote:
    Aye, t'was not meant as an attack... just posting my reaction to the page. I contend (without citing any evidence) that online episodic content tends to go downhill when the creators pander to vocal forumites. This is Rob, Xin, and Jamie's vision and it is wonderful. That said, I do a fair bit of a very different kind of writing for my job, and I almost invariably find readers' reactions to be helpful... especially when they aren't the reactions I was going for.

    I am a tool, but I'm also a cheapskate so I waited until they earned my money many times over before I sent them anything... I certainly don't feel entitled to anything they haven't already delivered.

    I made a comment that could be paraphrased as "the pace is slow." I didn't mean in real time so much as in plot-advancement per update. We've learned some very interesting history recently, but most of book 2 has been on-screen chatting... as was much of book 1 come to think of it, but this time around I feel like I'm waiting for the characters to figure stuff out instead of figuring stuff out myself. Definitely don't mean to rush quality!

    Now that I'm done trying to justify and qualify what I wrote, I'll also say that my post did sound harsher than I had intended... my rhetoric got away from me there!


    Mine did too, now that I reread it. I apologize for that. It's a thing I've noticed on several threads. And it seems to me that regular (if slow) updates with slow plot pace can be the result of the same kinds of pressures as might result in reduced frequency.

    At any rate, I'm off topic for this thread, and hereby warn me to not let it happen again.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:33 pm 
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    gameboy1234 wrote:
    I also vote for Jillian learning the hard way.

    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    Impossible to turn, he's kept in the attic as some grotesque pet or chained in the guest hall as some conversation piece? ...
    What says yall?



    After being Jillian's kept pet for a while, and proving impossible to turn, Jillian decides it's wrong to keep someone who can't change or doesn't want to change. Furthermore, she realizes it's not up to her to change other people's opinions of her, but there's in fact little she can do about others' feelings.

    Jillian then let's Ansom go.

    I could dig her more if she got character growth.

    She really is not good at the subtle plots of others, except by her own randomness.

    I caught myself writing a paragraph comparing her the the monomyth and Glossu Rabban Harkonen, which is also off topic, so I shall start a new thread about it now. A thread devoted to queen Jill rants. It will be condensed awesome, by which I mean it may reduce rants here.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:41 pm 
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    splintermute wrote:
    More tinfoil hattery:

    What if Charlie wanted to remove Ansom not because he was distracting Jillian, but because he was distracting Parson? Charlie seems to have been taking world-breaking lessons from Parson, and they couldn't continue unless Parson was CWL. Charlie isn't motivated by money, or Toolism, or anything - he set up this situation just so he could see what Parson would do.


    That seems strange. If Charlie wanted to see what Parson could do or work WITH him (rather than against him), he could just ask. Instead he spends enough money to fund Vanna, send archons, blackmail Haggar... all to get rid of Ansom? Especially when it seems that Ansom might soon dust anyway, when Wanda dies? Nah. Doesn't fit together for me.

    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    Oh happy-happy-joy-joy, my ab fav character gets an update. Wee. But hey, like her or not Jillian is the main character of Erfworld so what did I expect.


    Well, at least it wasn't too sympathetic an update to her. She clearly doesn't know what she's doing, and thinks like a child. And is revealing important information to Ansom for no reason. I look forward to Ansom's escape/dustng.

    Quote:
    Now, back to Jill-Ansom. What do you think will happen? We exclude the Love Conquers All scenario because nope. And no need to mention that eventually Jillian will (try to) kill Wanda because obvious. How will the Ansom situation be resolved though?


    Jillian keeps him around, believing hopelessly that she can convince him. That's the locked up in a dungeon stage. Eventually she gets Charlie and Vanna to give it their best magical shot. The results are either
    1) Dusting
    2) Ansom turns to Jillian's side... but still has no feelings for her. (He is turned from his present state, not re-popped-again like he was before. Thinkamancy is subtle magic.)

    Quote:
    I get the felling that this is going to be the start of Jillian learning a few things the hard way.


    I sure hope so. Or not learning things, still the hard way though.

    "She tried the easy way and will get... the very hard way. " It's about time for that quote to become appropriate again. Jillian tried to do things the very easy way. Take money from two different backers, then do her own thing - she doesn't want to fight Wanda so she avoids that responsibility, she grabs Ansom and runs... yeah, she's trying to take the very easy way. Not sure what 'the very hard way' would be, though.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:36 pm 
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    Love how DIFFERENT the perspective and priorities are in different character's text updates. Good writing. We see how Jillian, Stanley, Slately, Parson, and even the late Sammy actually THINK, reading these updates.

    Jillian second-guessing herself, and theorizing Charlie's motives regarding her boyfriend. Stanley regaling in the past triumph taking FAQ. Slately alone in his throne room assessing his grim situation. Parson trying to wrap his head around the "ridonkulous" differences between his world and Erf. The late Sammy just wanting to bust heads and Rock Out.

    Love it.

    edit: Curious about Jillian's use of the word Disband instead of Damn. Wonder if being disbanded means you don't go to "Heaven" (City of Heroes).

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:12 pm 
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    HailGreen28 wrote:
    edit: Curious about Jillian's use of the word Disband instead of Damn. Wonder if being disbanded means you don't go to "Heaven" (City of Heroes).

    Also wondering if you can disband captured units. Or if the side they're captured from can disband them (to prevent turning). Or maybe at that point Ansom can only be croaked but not disbanded?

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     Post Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:25 am 
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    robak wrote:
    HailGreen28 wrote:
    edit: Curious about Jillian's use of the word Disband instead of Damn. Wonder if being disbanded means you don't go to "Heaven" (City of Heroes).

    Also wondering if you can disband captured units. Or if the side they're captured from can disband them (to prevent turning). Or maybe at that point Ansom can only be croaked but not disbanded?


    Why bother disbanding when you could get XP for killing?

    Actually, only now do I think that Jill is becoming a little more interesting, as she adjusts to being a ruler, as she is forced to at least consider (if not necessarily act upon, apparently) larger issues. She at least is beginning to appreciate how much more complex the situation is. And like Parson, she is perhaps getting tired of being a pawn rather than a player.

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