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 Post Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:51 pm 
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trotsky wrote:
Don't forget, we also learned that Stanely loves ham. The importance of this on future story arcs has yet to be debated.


hahahahaah

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:36 pm 
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    trotsky wrote:

    Don't forget, we also learned that Stanely loves ham. The importance of this on future story arcs has yet to be debated.


    That may just be a red herring...

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:55 pm 
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    gazes_also wrote:
    trotsky wrote:

    Don't forget, we also learned that Stanely loves ham. The importance of this on future story arcs has yet to be debated.


    That may just be a red herring...


    May also explain Stanley's overwhelmingly positive reaction to Parson's...other name.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:10 pm 
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    gazes_also wrote:
    trotsky wrote:

    Don't forget, we also learned that Stanely loves ham. The importance of this on future story arcs has yet to be debated.


    That may just be a red herring...


    No, I don't think Stanley would mistake red herring for ham.

    </rimshot>

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:20 pm 
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    Hey, I like the way the Arkenhammer has been incorporated into the sepia-style picture. Didn't notice that before.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:31 pm 
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    valce wrote:
    Remember one of Charlie's services was providing thinkagrams (at extravagent thought).

    Possible Wanda thought really hard, contacted Charlie, and requested a thinkagram to Stanley. The thinkagram caused Stanley to leave. Charlie, knowing from his thinkagram service that the CWL is leaving with a large force, seizes the opportunity to take out GK, thinking that it had no heirs (no royals popped). Unfortunately it turns out Stanley is the heir. After killing the old king and realizing that GK hasn't just gone neutral, Charlie pulls out of the fight.
    -C


    We went over this argument before -- while it's theoretically possible, it's just unlikely that Stanley became an Overlord on the mission where he sacked Faq.

    Remember, Wanda said that she contacted a Warlord to get them to attack Faq, not an Overlord.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:45 pm 
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    Since we're looking at the fall of Faq again here, I have a question.
    What exactly is Wanda's status in GK?
    When Faq fell, (by her plotting) she said she served Stanley - then a Warlord - not GK.
    As a caster from a fallen side she became a freelancer or barbarian caster like Vanna and could choose who to serve in return for having her upkeep paid.

    So here's the thing, is she really a GK unit or an allied freelancer/barbarian?
    We know she is not bound by magic, duty or loyalty to Stanley and cannot be magically turned, because she is with Stanley of her own free will.

    If she is an ally, not a GK unit then are the decrypted a barbarian ally tribe rather than GK units? They wear Wanda's crest not Stanley's after all. In that case could they become a side with Wanda as overlord by seizing an abandoned capital site?
    Ok that's four questions, not one.



    On the fall of Saline IV: Wanda had motive (put Stanley on throne, war with Jetstone, get pliers) and opportunity (caster in GK capital), but did she have the means to cause the rebellion? I put her as prime suspect.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:00 pm 
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    gazes_also wrote:
    Since we're looking at the fall of Faq again here, I have a question.
    What exactly is Wanda's status in GK?
    When Faq fell, (by her plotting) she said she served Stanley - then a Warlord - not GK.
    As a caster from a fallen side she became a freelancer or barbarian caster like Vanna and could choose who to serve in return for having her upkeep paid.

    So here's the thing, is she really a GK unit or an allied freelancer/barbarian?
    We know she is not bound by magic, duty or loyalty to Stanley and cannot be magically turned, because she is with Stanley of her own free will.

    If she is an ally, not a GK unit then are the decrypted a barbarian ally tribe rather than GK units? They wear Wanda's crest not Stanley's after all. In that case could they become a side with Wanda as overlord by seizing an abandoned capital site?
    Ok that's four questions, not one.



    On the fall of Saline IV: Wanda had motive (put Stanley on throne, war with Jetstone, get pliers) and opportunity (caster in GK capital), but did she have the means to cause the rebellion? I put her as prime suspect.


    I think she's simply a GK unit with ridiculously low loyalty in the same way as Don's son just with different motivations. From that precedent we know potentily traitorous units can still be part of the same side.

    The Saline issue is weird she does have the motive but the opportunity to persuade a full tribe to turn under the noses of the other casters seem's unlikely. We do know however that Charlie has the means to do so but lacks any real gain by doing so. He wouldn't have underestimated Stanleys ablity to take back the city, so the Stanley dies and he gets the hammer plot is out. So unless Wanda paid him to do so all fingers point to Stanley for having the real means and possible motive. But even that seems sketchy at best as he resents his position and probably liked Saline due to his generosity.

    It's a real pickel worthy of any Agatha Christie novel.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:30 pm 
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    Black wrote:
    gazes_also wrote:
    trotsky wrote:

    Don't forget, we also learned that Stanely loves ham. The importance of this on future story arcs has yet to be debated.


    That may just be a red herring...


    No, I don't think Stanley would mistake red herring for ham.

    </rimshot>


    All you guys are full of bologna- as is Stanley. I do note a lack of turkey, chicken or other meat cold cuts, though...

    Well, no matter: no ham, no fowl.

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     Post Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:31 pm 
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    JustDoug wrote:
    All you guys are full of bologna- as is Stanley. I do note a lack of turkey, chicken or other meat cold cuts, though...

    Well, no matter: no ham, no fowl.



    Now that was just cheesy!

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     Post Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:21 pm 
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    The Black Hand wrote:
    JustDoug wrote:
    All you guys are full of bologna- as is Stanley. I do note a lack of turkey, chicken or other meat cold cuts, though...

    Well, no matter: no ham, no fowl.



    Now that was just cheesy!


    You're just being crusty, what's wrong with a little rye humour?

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     Post Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:54 pm 
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    Decorus wrote:
    Wanda has talent for pretty much all disciplines of magic, but she only learns Croakamancy.
    Its entirely possible for Wanda to send a thinkagram.


    This is what I think. The thingagram may have been "weird" because Wanda cast it inexpertly, but it may have also been that she was trying to disguise her identity. Some games you can do that. You can initiate a diplomatic action but "make it look like another side did it." Wanda may have been trying to do that.

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    I did it thirty-five minutes ago.

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     Post Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:29 pm 
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    jabbersocky wrote:
    gazes_also wrote:
    Since we're looking at the fall of Faq again here, I have a question.
    What exactly is Wanda's status in GK?
    When Faq fell, (by her plotting) she said she served Stanley - then a Warlord - not GK.
    As a caster from a fallen side she became a freelancer or barbarian caster like Vanna and could choose who to serve in return for having her upkeep paid.

    So here's the thing, is she really a GK unit or an allied freelancer/barbarian?
    We know she is not bound by magic, duty or loyalty to Stanley and cannot be magically turned, because she is with Stanley of her own free will.

    If she is an ally, not a GK unit then are the decrypted a barbarian ally tribe rather than GK units? They wear Wanda's crest not Stanley's after all. In that case could they become a side with Wanda as overlord by seizing an abandoned capital site?
    Ok that's four questions, not one.

    As to means, if she sows conflict between the gobwins and hobgobwins to the extent that the chief gobwin gets, croaked, she uncroaks him, controls him to start the rebellion and overthrow Saline. This also explains Vulp's guilty silence


    On the fall of Saline IV: Wanda had motive (put Stanley on throne, war with Jetstone, get pliers) and opportunity (caster in GK capital), but did she have the means to cause the rebellion? I put her as prime suspect.


    I think she's simply a GK unit with ridiculously low loyalty in the same way as Don's son just with different motivations. From that precedent we know potentily traitorous units can still be part of the same side.

    The Saline issue is weird she does have the motive but the opportunity to persuade a full tribe to turn under the noses of the other casters seem's unlikely. We do know however that Charlie has the means to do so but lacks any real gain by doing so. He wouldn't have underestimated Stanleys ablity to take back the city, so the Stanley dies and he gets the hammer plot is out. So unless Wanda paid him to do so all fingers point to Stanley for having the real means and possible motive. But even that seems sketchy at best as he resents his position and probably liked Saline due to his generosity.

    It's a real pickel worthy of any Agatha Christie novel.

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     Post Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:17 am 
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    More Stanley characterization! Once again, more proof that he's one of the most empathic of the native Erfworlders. Yeah, he's kind of an idiot, but there has never been any sign of any other Ruler taking even the slightest interest in the well-being of his/her basic troops. Warlords, yeah, but the smallfolk... not so much. Erfworld is a feudal system, and Stanley remembers his common roots.

    Every time you think that Stanley is a stereotypical egotistical idiot, Rob reminds us that Erfworld doesn't do two-dimensional characters. Except Jillian. But every rule has its exception.

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     Post Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 7:46 am 
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    jabbersocky wrote:
    The Saline issue is weird she does have the motive but the opportunity to persuade a full tribe to turn under the noses of the other casters seem's unlikely. We do know however that Charlie has the means to do so but lacks any real gain by doing so. He wouldn't have underestimated Stanleys ablity to take back the city, so the Stanley dies and he gets the hammer plot is out. So unless Wanda paid him to do so all fingers point to Stanley for having the real means and possible motive. But even that seems sketchy at best as he resents his position and probably liked Saline due to his generosity.

    It's a real pickel worthy of any Agatha Christie novel.


    Well, we know that Charlie loves artifacts. And Stanley isn't really the kind of person who would do this kind of elaborate backstabbing. If he wanted the throne he would just smash Saline's head and take command.So my personal theory it's that Charlie tried to "buy" the hammer from Saline, or at least force him to make some alliance between them. Stanley's high moving dwagons would provide a great adition to Charlie's high mobility elite force.

    But Saline refuses. Charlie says that some "acident" may happen if he doesn't change his mind. Saline still refuses. Hobgobwins rebel just when Stanley isn't nearby to protect his lord.

    Charlie expects Stanely to be an easily manipulable idiot. But Stanley strongly dislikes Charlie. And Wanda is already pulling his strings. Charlie's plan is foiled. Not even when the coalition forms against Stanley he acepts Charlie's alliance. Another hobgobwin rebellion is not an option because Stanley is a mighty fighter and has flying mounts to back him up. Charlie ends up joining the coalition and see what he can profit from it the whole mess.

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     Post Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:27 am 
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    gameboy1234 wrote:
    This is what I think. The thingagram may have been "weird" because Wanda cast it inexpertly, but it may have also been that she was trying to disguise her identity. Some games you can do that. You can initiate a diplomatic action but "make it look like another side did it." Wanda may have been trying to do that.


    you know. if Stanley couldn't tell who was talking to him, with some kind of obfuscated thinkagram, then who did he think was talking to him? The Titans personally? No wonder he thinks he's on a religious crusade to unite all the arkentools

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     Post Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:34 pm 
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    oslecamo2 wrote:
    jabbersocky wrote:
    The Saline issue is weird she does have the motive but the opportunity to persuade a full tribe to turn under the noses of the other casters seem's unlikely. We do know however that Charlie has the means to do so but lacks any real gain by doing so. He wouldn't have underestimated Stanleys ablity to take back the city, so the Stanley dies and he gets the hammer plot is out. So unless Wanda paid him to do so all fingers point to Stanley for having the real means and possible motive. But even that seems sketchy at best as he resents his position and probably liked Saline due to his generosity.

    It's a real pickel worthy of any Agatha Christie novel.


    Well, we know that Charlie loves artifacts. And Stanley isn't really the kind of person who would do this kind of elaborate backstabbing. If he wanted the throne he would just smash Saline's head and take command.So my personal theory it's that Charlie tried to "buy" the hammer from Saline, or at least force him to make some alliance between them. Stanley's high moving dwagons would provide a great adition to Charlie's high mobility elite force.

    But Saline refuses. Charlie says that some "acident" may happen if he doesn't change his mind. Saline still refuses. Hobgobwins rebel just when Stanley isn't nearby to protect his lord.

    Charlie expects Stanely to be an easily manipulable idiot. But Stanley strongly dislikes Charlie. And Wanda is already pulling his strings. Charlie's plan is foiled. Not even when the coalition forms against Stanley he acepts Charlie's alliance. Another hobgobwin rebellion is not an option because Stanley is a mighty fighter and has flying mounts to back him up. Charlie ends up joining the coalition and see what he can profit from it the whole mess.


    Here's the part that disappeared from my last post
    A possible means theory.
    Suppose Wanda was to stir up trouble between the gobwins and the Hobgobwins to such an extend that the chief gobwin was croaked. Wanda then uncroaks the chief gobwin who then leads the revolt under Wanda's control. This has the advantages that it would mean that Wanda caused the revolt casting within her own discipline, and would explain Vurp's feeling's of guilt for Hobgobwin complicity in the overthrow of Saline.

    Stanley's dislike of Charlie could also be due to Wanda's manipulation; she didn't want the two tool-wielders getting together while she didn't have a tool, leaving her on the outside. She put's the blame for the revolt on Charlie, driving a wedge between them. Charlie, being Charlie, decides that since he is being blamed for manipulating the GK gobwins, that's exactly what he will do the get back at them - poetic justice.

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     Post Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:48 pm 
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    Hmm... I have a theory about the fall of FAQ, and why Stanley hates Charlie:

    Wanda contacts Stanley through Charlie; she wants to protect her idenity so she has Charlie hide it.
    FAQ is attacked and smacked down pretty hard, Wanda joins up, Jack joins up.
    While this is happening the gobwins rebel, due to Charlie's interference.
    Saline dies Stanley is most upset since he probably liked the guy if he was made heir. Saline didn't get any of Stanley's royal hate since he didn't cling to the titanic mandate.
    Now Stanley blames Charlie for the rebellion since he is the reason Saline was unprotected, especially like if its known Charlie can influence natural tribes or someone made the gobwins talk. (Like the two thinkamancy capable casters.)

    Thoughts? Issues?

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     Post Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:14 pm 
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    oslecamo2 wrote:

    Well, we know that Charlie loves artifacts. And Stanley isn't really the kind of person who would do this kind of elaborate backstabbing. If he wanted the throne he would just smash Saline's head and take command.So my personal theory it's that Charlie tried to "buy" the hammer from Saline, or at least force him to make some alliance between them. Stanley's high moving dwagons would provide a great adition to Charlie's high mobility elite force.

    But Saline refuses. Charlie says that some "acident" may happen if he doesn't change his mind. Saline still refuses. Hobgobwins rebel just when Stanley isn't nearby to protect his lord.

    Charlie expects Stanely to be an easily manipulable idiot. But Stanley strongly dislikes Charlie. And Wanda is already pulling his strings. Charlie's plan is foiled. Not even when the coalition forms against Stanley he acepts Charlie's alliance. Another hobgobwin rebellion is not an option because Stanley is a mighty fighter and has flying mounts to back him up. Charlie ends up joining the coalition and see what he can profit from it the whole mess.


    Considering the fact Charlie was in full on mercenary mode then blackmailing a royal like that seems a little risky. Remember how concerned he was about his position after his antics at TBFGK if saline contacted any of the other royals before Charlie set the plan in motion it would have been a disaster. And if he somehow survived he could have had a Royal Crown coalition attacking him, which would have most likely been lead to battle by Stanley and his Dwagons. Doing something like that could be it as risky as simply attacking Stanley in the field.

    [quote="gazes_also]
    Here's the part that disappeared from my last post
    A possible means theory.
    Suppose Wanda was to stir up trouble between the gobwins and the Hobgobwins to such an extend that the chief gobwin was croaked. Wanda then uncroaks the chief gobwin who then leads the revolt under Wanda's control. This has the advantages that it would mean that Wanda caused the revolt casting within her own discipline, and would explain Vurp's feeling's of guilt for Hobgobwin complicity in the overthrow of Saline.

    Stanley's dislike of Charlie could also be due to Wanda's manipulation; she didn't want the two tool-wielders getting together while she didn't have a tool, leaving her on the outside. She put's the blame for the revolt on Charlie, driving a wedge between them. Charlie, being Charlie, decides that since he is being blamed for manipulating the GK gobwins, that's exactly what he will do the get back at them - poetic justice.[/quote]

    Well we know Decrypted count as a different side so i don't think that would have worked with a simple uncroaked unit. And i think Stanley doesn’t really need a reason to have Charlie we know he's petty and immature, it could simply boil down to him thinking Charlie’s more famous tool wielder then he is.

    Im just wondering what exactly the Gobwins gained from the revolt. The western giants presumably got a better deal from FAQ but the Gobwins only got curb stomped.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:13 am 
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    gazes_also wrote:
    The Black Hand wrote:
    JustDoug wrote:
    All you guys are full of bologna- as is Stanley. I do note a lack of turkey, chicken or other meat cold cuts, though...

    Well, no matter: no ham, no fowl.



    Now that was just cheesy!


    You're just being crusty, what's wrong with a little rye humour?



    At least rye is vegan.

    Also kosher.

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