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 Post subject: Book 3 - Page 324
 Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:12 pm 
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New One is up.

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     Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:16 pm 
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    That's some pretty hardcore backstabbing Signamancy on the fresco there.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 324
     Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:18 pm 
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    How low must have TV's treas been if the money would have come from the gems? Or... did they all intend for it to come from gems anyways, so it would never come up?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 324
     Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:19 pm 
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    Oh good, another contract to argue about for the next 100 pages! Even better than a Jillian update!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 324
     Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:28 pm 
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    Hah! "Walking bullshit detector." I like it.

    Cause money talks... bullshit walks

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 324
     Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:35 pm 
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    My takeaway was that GK has its upkeep covered by TV's new wealth even if they don't get any gems back.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 324
     Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:37 pm 
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    If I'm reading the signamancy sign right, Benjamin appears to be the one with the scepter, or possibly that could be Don King. But... I think it represents Benjamin. And I don't like it because... it indicates that he may be the next to croak.

    although, to the right there appears to be another signamantic TV unit "watching" the two as things go down.

    IDK, a scepter is a tool of power, even as a knife is a tool of destruction.

    I keep thinking of Bunny and Don King, with Caesar watching but... again, I don't know.

    Still, for setting things up, that last panel just ensured things got real ominous in a real hurry.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 324
     Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:38 pm 
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    JadedDragoon wrote:
    Hah! "Walking bullshit detector." I like it.

    Cause money talks... bullshit walks


    Money can cause a lot of bullshit though.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 324
     Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:40 pm 
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    DreadArchon wrote:
    My takeaway was that GK has its upkeep covered by TV's new wealth even if they don't get any gems back.

    That was what I got out of it as well. Problem is, that may not actually be ideal just at the moment, since TV's getting gutted.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 324
     Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:42 pm 
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    Well, I'm glad to know that GK/TV had more of a plan going with those gems than it seemed. Also nice to learn a bit more about Signamancy agreements. Makes me curious if Charlie needs to Carny himself into believing he thought something different when he signed the contract to get around the rules when he skirts them.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 324
     Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:43 pm 
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    Well this means GK doesn't currently need to worry about upkeep from its empty treasury. It also means Charlie has a hell of a lot less wiggle room in what demands can actually be met.

    I also suspect the Bennie is going to deliberately violate the contract to gift the gems out of Charlie's grubby mitts and straight back to GK.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 324
     Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:45 pm 
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    Arci wrote:
    If I'm reading the signamancy sign right, Benjamin appears to be the one with the scepter, or possibly that could be Don King. But... I think it represents Benjamin. And I don't like it because... it indicates that he may be the next to croak.

    although, to the right there appears to be another signamantic TV unit "watching" the two as things go down.

    IDK, a scepter is a tool of power, even as a knife is a tool of destruction.

    I keep thinking of Bunny and Don King, with Caesar watching but... again, I don't know.

    Still, for setting things up, that last panel just ensured things got real ominous in a real hurry.

    Benny has round ears, the scepter guy has pointed.

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    DreadArchon wrote:
    My takeaway was that GK has its upkeep covered by TV's new wealth even if they don't get any gems back.

    That was what I got out of it as well. Problem is, that may not actually be ideal just at the moment, since TV's getting gutted.

    In what way? Shirley is making demands, but they have yet to be fulfilled. None of the damage Skyy is doing is costing TV anything. And TV just got paid for Parson casting the spell. If they free Caesar, TV is in great shape, and GK should be ok.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 324
     Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:46 pm 
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    DreadArchon wrote:
    My takeaway was that GK has its upkeep covered by TV's new wealth even if they don't get any gems back.


    As long as TV keeps existing and as long as they are not forced to pay all the money they got back to Charlie. The Caeser situation has to be resolved in a way which does not totally screw over TV and therefore by extension GK.

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    Last edited by Bandaid on Wed May 16, 2018 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 324
     Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:47 pm 
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    What's confusing me is his use of the word "believe" instead of "know" when he says "believe our intentions are real and won't change".

    He doesn't want them to know, he wants them to believe.
    Basic carnymancy?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 324
     Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:50 pm 
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    Arci wrote:
    If I'm reading the signamancy sign right, Benjamin appears to be the one with the scepter, or possibly that could be Don King. But... I think it represents Benjamin


    The one with the scepter has pointy ears, Benjamim has round ears.
    It could be Don, but I don't think it is because Bunny was the actual traitor.
    It could be some other backstabbing from the past.

    Or maybe the art team didn't mean it to be a backstabbing and now we're stuck trying to figure it out.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 324
     Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:50 pm 
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    DreadArchon wrote:
    My takeaway was that GK has its upkeep covered by TV's new wealth even if they don't get any gems back.


    Bingo... I didn’t get this at first read. Charlie just effectively stole from TV, not from GK, since TV is on the hook for the gems. Which also means CC won’t get any penalties from the contract with GK (“material harm”). OTOH, contracts don’t matter if the signatory sides aren’t around to be bound by them. But if TV survives the turn without recouping the hatted gems, they are going to be in a bind given their treasury.

    also noteworthy: “Regency of Transylvito”. I know it was stated previously- I think in an argument between Caesar and Vanna- but interesting that it’s the Signamancy of the contract.

    Also, new favorite Hamstard.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 324
     Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:52 pm 
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    Bandaid wrote:
    DreadArchon wrote:
    My takeaway was that GK has its upkeep covered by TV's new wealth even if they don't get any gems back.


    That new wealth is rather limited. They got the money from Jillians treasury and from razing her cities. The gems which where supposed to pay for GK upkeep where hatted back to Charlescomm after all.

    They have over ten million schmuckers for Titans' sake, coming from CC. The problem is, CC wants them back and they'll get it.

    Lipkin, in case you didn't notice, CC has TV's naughty bits in a vise.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 324
     Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:54 pm 
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    So what we can take away from this update:

    Signamancy enforces that you are on the same page while signing a contract.

    Unless there are allowances for changing circumstances in a contract itself you are stuck with the original intent of the contract.

    Carnymancy might give you some wiggle room while Charlie can be safely assumed to have found the maximum amount of said room and then built himself some extensions trough a combination of masterful carnymancy, Arkendish, knowledge and forbidden knowledge gained with the help of said Arkendish.

    There are automagical ways to convert gems to shmuckers in additon of manual conversion trough commanders.


    Did I miss something or got something wrong?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 324
     Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:57 pm 
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    I love that I can honestly say my favorite comic's most recent update was: "A contract and some commentary on that contract. It is enforced by magic, automatically, with the judging of violations done by the gods." People complain about the arguments over contracts here, and sometimes they are ridiculous, yeah, but CONTRACTS MATTER. I have been fucked over by signing a bad contract twice over the years. Some of the oldest written documents are contracts. The oldest beer recipe known was on a receipt for the fulfillment of a contract to brew a bunch of beer in Mesopotamia, called an "Alulu". Contracts are fundamental. I think the contracts are an excellent bit of Erfworld's world building. Any world with trade is going to have contracts. The fact that you almost never see them as a major factor in stories is a hole I never knew they had until Erfworld. What is the matter with you? Stop complaining about these pages, they're awesome.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 324
     Post Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 12:01 am 
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    Bandaid wrote:
    JadedDragoon wrote:
    Hah! "Walking bullshit detector." I like it.

    Cause money talks... bullshit walks


    Money can cause a lot of bullshit though.


    Eh, that idiom is typically attributed to "street speak" and "gangstas" by Hollywood and the current crop of rap artists. Which is also the group to whom the idiom "it's all about the Benjamins" is attributed. See the connection? The idea that Hollywood and rap artists are peddling is the idea that money solves all problems... which to a poor kid in an inner city ghetto is gonna sound pretty plausible.

    How accurately any of this represents inner-city gangs and criminals? I have no idea. I'm a white kid from the 'burbs. But I tend to think it's both a watered down representation of inner city crime and played up one at the same time.

    I do tend to agree with you that money is at the center of a lot of BS. But money is ultimately an inanimate object or an ephemeral idea. It can't "cause" anything. But the people coveting it sure can.


    Last edited by JadedDragoon on Wed May 16, 2018 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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