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 Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 286
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:39 pm 
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No one in particular wrote:
So, like they're coordinates or the destination, then? Every worldspace column has the same destination - the MK, while every MK column is unique for the Capital site. Makes sense.

Close the iris!

vreejack wrote:
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it's that there's no portal-generating column at non-Capital cities.

No, there definitely is a portal-generating column at all capital sites.

Please compare bolded sections.

lordfisch wrote:
I'm not convinced BT did anything but uncover these portals.

SO FAR :think:

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 286
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:44 pm 
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    Hero of Shadows wrote:
    Sigh when you have such low stakes Wanda's party vs the party of Dirtamancers that will go down to fight her, it's no fun at all the group protected by Fate (Wanda and co) will win the skirmish.


    Y'know, we saw Wanda's fate bubble fade, and we haven't specifically seen it return... Marie said she's fated to serve Jillian, but for all we know it could be 20 turns from now after a new 'Pliers owner Decrypts her.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 286
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:11 pm 
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    Hero of Shadows wrote:
    Sigh when you have such low stakes Wanda's party vs the party of Dirtamancers that will go down to fight her, it's no fun at all the group protected by Fate (Wanda and co) will win the skirmish.

    Wanda's fate bubble collapsed at the battle of Portal Park. Whether it has since returned we don't know.

    /edit I was ninjad so hard...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 286
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:33 pm 
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    While we obviously all expect Wanda to survive, I'm pretty invested in our favorite dynamic Weirdo-/Dirta-duo. I'm not sure they'll make it out alive, and I care!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 286
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:54 pm 
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    Ozamataz Buckshank wrote:
    Hero of Shadows wrote:
    Sigh when you have such low stakes Wanda's party vs the party of Dirtamancers that will go down to fight her, it's no fun at all the group protected by Fate (Wanda and co) will win the skirmish.

    At most what Team Dirt will be able to do is pick off either the engineer caster or the dollamancer caster, which actually I don't want them do as their banter is pretty fun but at the same time I don't want another encounter where Fate doesn't lose anything.

    Wanda should be perfectly capable of winning without Fate. She's very high-level, with lots of combat experience winning wars for Haffaton. Claud and Ivan are both Decrypted, and thus get a bonus when led by her. Both sides have guns, so the Dirtamancers' weapons won't give them an extra edge. Her odds are not so bad that she'd need plot armor to stand a chance.


    Wanda is also intelligent, while Buck seems to be...somewhere between Stanley and a cwap golem mentally. He's currently planning to leave most of his allies behind to chase after a target he knows will come to his location because Charlie told him to. Buck has massive terrain and numerical advantages and he's ditching them. Meanwhile, Wanda has one of her casters walking backwards in case somebody tries to sneak up behind them while she negotiates with a potential ally.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 286
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:29 pm 
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    Pointyleaf wrote:
    While we obviously all expect Wanda to survive, I'm pretty invested in our favorite dynamic Weirdo-/Dirta-duo. I'm not sure they'll make it out alive, and I care!

    Do you mean Dolla-? Cuz, Claud's all about them accessories and action figures. Or do you mean Varius Sundry?

    Personally, I'm hoping the Dirtamancers get lost in the twisty little passages that are all alike that Big Think's been digging out, while Wanda's squad just finds the tunnel up and takes it.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 286
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:22 pm 
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    Wanda's next objective is still the SR portal, which Deisaac has promised to make traversable under bedrock (presumably by breaking the focus collar). Only after obtaining the 'pliers and making contact with Parson for updated orders would it make sense to reenter the MK (most likely under bedrock, rather than having Sizemore or Ivan break the seal) and start doing other things like decrypting those archons, or the GMTTA, or mass decrypting the hex, most of which don't require going above bedrock herself. The only thing she needs to go up for is the prisoners, and there is a hole under the Dirtamansion, well away from most of the casters with guns, and she doesn't need to go herself.

    They should be fairly close to the SR portal column, if Deisaac wanted to avoid contact with them. While he may be working fast, he presumably cannot dig bedrock faster than Wanda's group could walk, especially since he'd need to be in contact with portal columns for the unlimited juice. So he'd want to dig out and rig the SR column (where Wanda and friends are heading) first and then leave as soon as possible to minimize the chances of meeting up again. That would make a logical first choice anyway, even before making the deal, since he'd know that they were going back there.

    None of the uncovered portals show signs of portal shards, or even of having their focus collars broken. That leaves the possibility of awakened towers and non-caster entry...only one of which we definitely know to be possible with access to the MK column rather than the capital site. This doesn't exclude the possibility of having done both, if the non-caster entry hack is possible from the MK side.

    The subject of broken focus collars possibility fixing themselves at turn reset is interesting...no definite statement either way on that subject, Ivan never says he had to fix the focus collar after breaking it before.

    P.S. It's very odd that nobody has commented on the substantial art change in this update, I feel that it probably is not intended to be Significant (of anything in Erfworld, I mean), but it's pretty noticeable.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 286
     Post Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:18 am 
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    Here's a thought. There are roughly six uncovered, un-powered portal bases in the room. We know that the portals only open up for a side in that side's capital city. And we know that if a side has multiple capitol class cities, they can swap their capitol to a new city, closing their current portal and opening a new one.

    That means there are six inaccessible portals leading to either forgotten and lost capitols, or to non-main capital cities. They have already shown they can divert the infinite power of the portal columns to other uses. They could easily re-power these portals and bypass the one per side/empty city rules and activate the portals. If they retrieve the wonky wrench, they could potentially expand GK into multiple new abandoned capitols. Or eventually launch campaigns against sides from within.

    It's one thing to try striking at a side's capitol. If they can choose to reactivate a portal at will they can strike at what was previously a secure high level city and potentially take it with little resistance.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 286
     Post Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:32 am 
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    No one in particular wrote:
    Personally, I'm hoping the Dirtamancers get lost in the twisty little passages that are all alike that Big Think's been digging out, while Wanda's squad just finds the tunnel up and takes it.

    Personally, I'm hoping they get eaten by a grue or two.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 286
     Post Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:14 pm 
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    Except the powered portals provide sufficient ambient lighting.

    I see seven (possibly eight) unpowered portals, most of them on the right of the panel. Interestingly, that's the direction the tunnel they're using bends, heading back to the CC portal. We know that CC claims a large territory despite having only one city by having razed every city site within a hundred hexes of CC. The spacing of cities that we've seen is about 24 hexes. If city sites themselves are distributed evenly, that would imply that there are about 60 city sites in that razed area, minus potential sites that are precluded by impassible terrain (probably a lot of the sites nearer to CC itself, given the high mountains which make CC accessible only to flying units). Haffaton's expanse of 69 cities was conquered by eliminating at least 11 enemy rulers, though these may not each represent the fall of a side due to heirs. This implies a ratio of more than five cities to each capital site, which could resolve as a natural ratio of 6 to 1, altered by terrain factors. So it would be reasonable for there to be 6-8 unclaimed (thus unpowered) capital site portals around CC.

    Not that other sides couldn't have multiple capital sites, of which only one was the current capital and thus powered, we know that Faq and Uniroyal are capital sites which are not currently capitals and thus do not have their portals powered. It might be relatively common for strong sides to have more than one capital site, though it also seems common to use any additional capital sites to spin off an allied side (which alleviates economic problems).

    I feel like the exposure of the unpowered columns indicates something about what Deisaac is doing, but exactly what I don't know.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 286
     Post Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:40 pm 
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    No one in particular wrote:
    KeiranHalcyon31 wrote:
    Caprice wrote:
    So, anyone else find it interesting that Spacerock and Charlescomm seem to be the only two portals with the same pattern?
    http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%203/113
    http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%203/184

    They're also the only two portal columns we've seen in worldspace - and further, the designs on CC's portal column differ in worldspace and the MK. So my theory for now is that all portal columns in worldspace have the same design, but they all have different designs in the MK.

    So, like they're coordinates or the destination, then? Every worldspace column has the same destination - the MK, while every MK column is unique for the Capital site. Makes sense.

    I wonder if those patterns could be used to figure out where they lead, then. Get a signamancer/findamancer to figure out the language of the coordinates, then apply that language to figure out where the MK is.

    Then use the wonky wrench poke a hole in the ceiling, so you can launch a rocket there.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 286
     Post Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:27 pm 
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    tomaO2 wrote:
    Sentience to these golems depends on the caster staying alive though. What happens when the hive mind dies? Seems a bit pointless, given that the mind only has one turn left to live.


    I am not sure that it does require the continued survival of the caster(s). That would undermine the idea of them possessing a string rather than an imprint.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 286
     Post Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:43 pm 
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    ewok612 wrote:
    I am not sure that it does require the continued survival of the caster(s). That would undermine the idea of them possessing a string rather than an imprint.

    Well, as far as the comic's shown us, that is the case. Max's Lion, Tinman and Scarecrow stopping thinking when he croaked, and on page 179 Maggie pretty explicitly says that the golem's string is just a copy of Bill's.

    Quote:
    Here was the knotty little string that makes a doll a little bit aware... not really so complicated. Now when it's done so simply and meanly. This Thinkamancy connects it to the Dollamancer because it's his own string, a crude copy of a few parts of his own mind. The golem is still its own unit, but a special one. It thinks that it thinks. It remains special only so long as the Dollamancer lives...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 286
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:26 am 
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    Whispri wrote:
    Hrrm. So now we see the Underpark. But why bother rolling off with the cart if the plan was to expose so many portal columns? Chokepoint for Charlie maybe?

    Chokepoint Charlie, you say? :D

    I'm still wondering whether Joe Dirt being asked to put up a wall around a portal after previously being convinced that such a thing was anathema will have any repercussions.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 286
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:38 am 
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    So this brings up a wonderful question.

    Why teach buck how to dig through bedrock? Why not just have him go through charlies portal, then re-enter the MK through one of the shards under the bedrock? He's just going to find out that Charlie messed with the collar when he gets down there.

    Which brings up a bigger question I don't think was discussed:

    How does any unit caster exiting Charlescomm understand where they are going to end up? Bedrock exit or portal park? Do they see two paths? Who controls that egress point?

    My guess is "Charlie just carnies it" is going to be the response but that doesn't seem quite right.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 286
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:59 am 
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    Calith wrote:
    Why teach buck how to dig through bedrock? Why not just have him go through charlies portal, then re-enter the MK through one of the shards under the bedrock? He's just going to find out that Charlie messed with the collar when he gets down there.

    As Charlie said when he was making his pitch to Buck, Charlie lost his old dirtamancer - he needs a new guy he can trust to patch up his wiring, make bullets and maybe do nasty things to other sides' portals.

    As for why not send him through CC's portal? For one thing, that'd be like admitting a number of things (secrets about action figures, about what he can do with the 'Dish, about how much he knows about the portals...). Buck already knows Charlie knows how to get through bedrock - so that's the only thing Charlie's offering him yet. Plus, Charlie can always blame it on GK. "ooh, that nasty Parson, look what he did to MY column! Tsk tsk tsk!"

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 286
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:31 pm 
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    Calith wrote:
    How does any unit caster exiting Charlescomm understand where they are going to end up? Bedrock exit or portal park? Do they see two paths? Who controls that egress point?

    We actually saw this when Tondelayo took her group through. See the third section of this update (from "getting through the broken portal...").

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 286
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:55 pm 
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    Free Radical wrote:
    Calith wrote:
    How does any unit caster exiting Charlescomm understand where they are going to end up? Bedrock exit or portal park? Do they see two paths? Who controls that egress point?

    We actually saw this when Tondelayo took her group through. See the third section of this update (from "getting through the broken portal...").


    God catch i missed that.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 286
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:51 pm 
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    Oh, great. Now the Great Minds have really gone off the rails.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 286
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:24 pm 
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    What if the Great Minds are going to each site and giving everyone sentient towers such as Jed and Shirley? If they already know how to do it and are capable of repeating that without actually having the Dirt and Dollmancers linked in state 8.1 That would throw the entire Erf into a HUGE tizzy and shake things up a fair bit

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