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 Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 272
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:28 pm 
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After re-reading the relevant updates I am firmly in the camp that Parson's surprise at what all Bonnie told the Thinkamancers needs no retconjuration.

Relevant updates are page 182, 184, and 236 of this book in case anyone wants to go look it up.

1) Parson's inner monologue on this page does not conflict with what he already knew. Yes, he knew Bonnie had spoken with the minds, but he was a)unaware of what all she had shared (and also under the impression that the Minds mostly wanted to know about Charlie's portal) and b) he specifically told Jed to tell Bonnie to be careful what she shared. So, on this particular page "a part of him was questioning why Bonnie would dump all her secrets to the Minds [after he told her not too], but a much bigger part of him was blowing party horns and throwing confetti to celebrate [the fact that she did ignore him and apparently told the Minds everything she knew]"

2) I agree with the previous posters who mentioned that Parson may have forgotten or misunderstood a relevant detail or 2. in page 182 Parson specifically mentioned that the pace of communication with the maggolem was frustratingly slow and he had to pick his questions with care, so he couldn't ask as much about Bonnie and the deal as he wanted. On page 184 he hears about the plan and it is described as "some sort of protection spell" the Minds can cast with Janis, but again, he doesn't know every last detail, or even when it is supposed to happen, and he personally considers it unlikely to happen because MK Politics. And on page 236 he mentions the deal falling through, and that Jed says it "was kipi", but also that he has no idea what kipi means in the context and that talking with the city golem is so frustrating that he wishes he were talking to Stanley.

3) For all Parson knew Bonnie never shared ANY secrets with the Minds. I mean..... again, for all he knows the deal just fell through. Why would she have given them any info at all if the deal feel through?

So, yeah, I do not agree that Parson is playing the fool in this page. In fact, I would argue quite the opposite.

One of Parson's biggest problems right now is a lack of communication and information. RVC in this context is literally a godsend. Fate sending a little helping hand, as far as Parson knows.

And yet if you re-read the update you'll see multiple times where Parson's gut it telling him to not trust it. And judging by how Parson is looking at RVC in some of those pics he is listening to his gut.

What Parson said at the end is still true. Right now they just need the guy too damn much for him to care, but he is on his guard.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 272
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:16 pm 
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    Sylvan wrote:
    One of Parson's biggest problems right now is a lack of communication and information. RVC in this context is literally a godsend. Fate sending a little helping hand, as far as Parson knows.

    And yet if you re-read the update you'll see multiple times where Parson's gut it telling him to not trust it. And judging by how Parson is looking at RVC in some of those pics he is listening to his gut.

    What Parson said at the end is still true. Right now they just need the guy too damn much for him to care, but he is on his guard.

    Parson could very well toss RVC in the dungeon AFTER the infodump on CC layout and info. Sometimes the best place to keep a possible traitor is where you can watch them, and extract maximum possible benefit from them before you kipi their candlenuts. :D

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 272
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:44 pm 
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    Sylvan wrote:
    What Parson said at the end is still true. Right now they just need the guy too damn much for him to care, but he is on his guard.
    I would say that they need him too much to worry, but Parson certainly does still care.

    Parson is also probably quietly parsing the problem of how exactly he would be able to detect if Roger were faking a Thinkagram outright using Foolamancy. Until he has a solid answer to that (and I certainly don't know what it is), they're better off using Roger for other things. And not making a big deal out of how little they trust him.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 272
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:55 pm 
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    Chiu ChunLing wrote:
    Sylvan wrote:
    What Parson said at the end is still true. Right now they just need the guy too damn much for him to care, but he is on his guard.
    I would say that they need him too much to worry, but Parson certainly does still care.

    Parson is also probably quietly parsing the problem of how exactly he would be able to detect if Roger were faking a Thinkagram outright using Foolamancy. Until he has a solid answer to that (and I certainly don't know what it is), they're better off using Roger for other things. And not making a big deal out of how little they trust him.


    I wonder if doing it as a touch-based call in Thinkspace between Maggie and Bonnie would do? Sounds like it would be hard to fake Maggie out.

    That would require letting him touch Maggie, though...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 272
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:49 pm 
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    Knavigator wrote:
    Pope William T Wodium wrote:
    Dusso wrote:
    I just started wondering, would decrypting by Wanda of any of fallen GM affect the existence of 8.1 state? Maybe it would decompose him by forcing them out of this common state? :roll:

    Maybe it would de-decompose them. Since it's decryption.


    Based on what Ivan said about it not surviving the start of turn Dirtamancy repair, I suspect that they're already in a corpse-like state.

    If that's the case, maybe the 'Plyers can stabilize them in this form. It seems it's already practicing some form of pseudo-croakamancy; holding its Matter together with sheer magics.


    I think Isaac is alive, but his brain is a tangled up mess. Accommodating all the minds in his wetware is only possible in a strange "brain trauma" state.

    When the start of turn healing refresh happens, the strange wiring in his head goes back to normal, and the stage 8 will be catastrophically disrupted.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 272
     Post Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:15 pm 
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    yogomakeoshimi wrote:
    The call was rejected for the same reason Parson could only briefly reach out to Isaac: There is no Ivan Poe, there is only "Dirtamancer" in a link. Moon if you will. When a magic user is in a link, their address changes, and asking them to recall their old address is dangerous to the link! (see misty in book one)

    No, the call was "rejected" because Roger never initiated the call. Big Think is in Deiform mode. He's not going to let some piddly little thing like being in a link stop him from having a call come through. He's probably also got the ability to discern the agenda of the person initiating the Thinkagram, and cut Roger's string when he learns the depths (and length) of his treachery.

    Ergo, my conclusion that Roger only pretended to attempt the call. Q.E.D.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 272
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:13 am 
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    I think there is an 'if' missing:
    "Parson didn't know how much to trust Jed, but [*IF*] Jed was wrong"

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 272
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:15 am 
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    I tend to agree with the idea that there is an "if" missing there, but it's been noted and discussed since the first page (like, the second comment) and yet it's still missing, so ohwellIguess.

    I'm undecided about whether Roger really didn't even try to place the call with Ivan. There are some downsides to actually contacting Ivan, but probably more upsides from his perspective, especially if he could control (or at least filter) both sides of the conversation, which seems plausible. And he has to know that he's running a bit of a trust deficit with GK, even if he didn't know how they were communicating before.

    His negotiation of Jed's accusation was masterful, but it really needed to be.

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