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 Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 217
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:14 pm 
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While Julius Caesar has been referenced in relation to Caesar his name is much more closely linked to Caesar Borgia.

This is significant because Caesar Borgia is the 'Prince' in Machiavelli's book The Prince which is a text that has had significant and far reaching consequences for military strategy and political thought indeed the philosophy espoused in this text is often cited as influencing this topic even to this day.

The turn of phrase "Machiavellian" stems from 'The Prince' and thus Caesar Borgia whose name is now synonymous with being a ruthless but brilliant leader that doesn't mesh with the Caesar of TV who seems a decent bloke.

Throw in a few mafia references and the more popular Julius Caesar and you have yourself a multi-layered reference as per the norm.

This might be a sign of dark things to come though if he begins to follow the path of Borgia.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 217
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:23 pm 
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    Interesting thought:

    There's still a Royal heir in Transylvito's production queue. If they don't change the unit they're popping, will a son / daughter of Don be born after his death?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 217
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:28 pm 
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    youngstormlord wrote:
    Actually, being popped as Noble in the Royal Side, the one thing he can't promote to is the Overlord. :lol: But I agree, we shall see. Hell, maybe Transylvito turns from Kingdom to Visconsin, which is how a vampire might pronounce Wisconsin. :)

    There is no way Caesar becomes a King or Royal. I'll put 50 shmuckers on it.

    Incidentally, the S in viscount is silent. It's pronounced "vai-count."

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 217
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:34 pm 
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    Oh my god...that was beautiful.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 217
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:52 pm 
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    Morsious wrote:
    I really want to add something witty or clever,

    But that is not what this update needs.

    I think a moment of silence is in order.


    [...]

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 217
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:53 pm 
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    Vasae wrote:
    Don King isn't a reference to the Don King.

    M1rth wrote:
    "Caesar Borgata" as a name is not signifying any roman motif

    M1rth wrote:
    "Goyles" isn't "gargoyle" in that sense. [...]

    "Moll" as well was a contraction of "mob doll", a term for the girlfriend or social concubine of a gangster.

    Why assume that units/individuals can't have multiple Signamancies combined? Erfworld is riddled with puns.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 217
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:56 pm 
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    Xellos wrote:
    Vasae wrote:
    Don King isn't a reference to the Don King.

    M1rth wrote:
    "Caesar Borgata" as a name is not signifying any roman motif

    M1rth wrote:
    "Goyles" isn't "gargoyle" in that sense. [...]

    "Moll" as well was a contraction of "mob doll", a term for the girlfriend or social concubine of a gangster.

    Why assume that units/individuals can't have multiple Signamancies combined? Erfworld is riddled with puns.


    Well in the case of Don King. He's got nothing at all linking him to the actual Don King?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 217
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:05 pm 
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    Mystic_A wrote:
    -Second, did the Baddie spell really destroy all of Bunny's strings, or simply the ones present in her? I still hold out hope that the Bunny doll might hold traces of her. As others have pointed out the Velveteen Bunny is a story of a doll who eventually became real.
    If so it's entirely possible that Maggie can link with Ace(doubt she'd even touch Bill at this point) and "recreate" her.

    Between the pliers having a pretty solid track record of bringing people back, and there being 2 casters who understand strings in the TV capital, Bunny can pretty likely be brought back. However, said understanding of strings is why it'll have to be Bill instead of Ace.

    My current guess?

    Sizemore is going to deliver the Pliers to TV.
    A Maggie-Bill linkup will put the fragments of Bunny's mind into the Doll, and then they'll use the pliers to give life to the doll (Maggie has been in links where the pliers were used, and might be able to use simple functions while unattuned, like how Ansom used them as a good weapon).
    The linkup will have considerable backlash because Maggie hates Bill with a passion, but once BunnyDoll freaks the hell out about being in the Doll Bill abused, Ceaser will be happy with Bill taking all of said backlash (Parson might even need to stop him from killing Bill during the link). Bunny might not even be a caster afterwards, but that won't be Ceaser's main concern at this point.

    There's lots of "how will obscure mechanics play out" in the theories coming up here, and most paths are fairly plausible. Whatever happens, we'll probably learn a lot about some obscure mechanics in the next few updates.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 217
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:14 pm 
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    Belrodes wrote:
    Alright everybody, we've got less than 30 hours before (hopefully) the next page tells us what Caesar's title is and we can all shut up about whether or not he becomes a king. Let's work it all out because this is becoming our new dead horse to beat.


    I totally hear you. I just get a little twitchy when I see unsupported or insufficiently supported categorical assertions.

    Personally, I'm with you and Ozamataz and the others who believe it's more likely that Caesar will be an Overlord, than a Regent or King. But I acknowledge it's not a sure thing.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 217
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:19 pm 
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    JadedDragoon wrote:
    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    Mystic_A wrote:
    Another first time poster here! I've been a big fan ever since the comic first appeared on GITP.

    Oh for fuck... Am I the only one on this forum who didn't discover Erfworld through Giant in the Playground?
    How is it that people are still making that same statement ten years after the comic's foundation. I spent only 3 months lurking before I signed up.


    Lol, also discovered it through GitP and also never joined the forum till a few months ago. I duno what to tell you man.


    Just joined finally today, after reading OOTS for years and discovering Erfworld there. This update was the irresistible shock which made me join.

    I hope Bunny makes it back. I don't expect that to be quick, easy, and drama free.

    Sizemore with the pliers, Wanda. and mass Decryption in the MK. A whole new chapter could open up here.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 217
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:44 pm 
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    Vasae wrote:
    Well in the case of Don King. He's got nothing at all linking him to the actual Don King?


    Except, like, his name. It's no John Smith, being named Don King is pretty unusual.
    And the mobster connection being through that as well.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 217
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:45 pm 
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    This update has really made me second guess second-guessing the Great Minds that Think Alike. I originally viewed what they did to Bunny as rash, but the more I think on it, the more it seems like they are trying to protect Thinkamancy from perversion into something horrible. That's why the spell reports back the motive for why you chose to abuse Thinkamancy as it kills you.

    Many of the secrets they keep are about how dangerous Thinkamancy really is. So far they have been shown to be trying to keep Thinkamancy as a tool to be used, instead of letting it become way for thinkamancers to dominate the world. The Bunny doll, for example, was a stepping stone to creating a way to misuse Thinkamancy to trap someone's essence in a vulnerable vessal to abuse them remotely. The Arkendish is a massive Thinkamancy invasion of privacy device in addition to whatever else it does.

    I'm still debating if this, assuming it's correct, is because casters have a duty to keep their magic in keeping with some grand design (similar to how one of the charges against Olive was weaponizing Hippiemancy) or if it's a reference to forcing people to role play when they're ignoring in-game lore to minmax. Maybe this is why Charlie hasn't "won" Erfworld yet. As a Stagemancer that would effectively be the same as ending the show, and as a Carnymancer he'd still mostly be using the rules to win if he went with money and overwhelming force as his tools. He could just be searching for a way to do it that involves a big enough cheat because his duty toward his discipline commands it.

    Xellos wrote:
    Why assume that units/individuals can't have multiple Signamancies combined? Erfworld is riddled with puns.
    I agree. There've been a few characters where each part of their name is a different reference than their whole name together is. Rubicon is only meaningful in relation to a Julius Caesar reference. Bunny having poor Foolamancy skills when projecting a thinkagram is only meaningful in reference to televisions (TV) with bad receptions and "bunny ears" antennas, but her full name is a reference to a historical figure who lived in an era well before that.

    Vasae wrote:
    Well in the case of Don King. He's got nothing at all linking him to the actual Don King?
    There are a lot of possible ties. His crown may be a reference to Don King's hair as it's been depicted in cartoons or possibly to one of the many crown icons Don King associated to his promotion company, his arrogant way of speaking, an alleged association to a mafia don named Gotti (that he denied publicly), references to scripture and to receiving signs from God that his course of action was correct, and promoting others into successful fighters despite not being one himself (Don King tried his hand at boxing early-on and gave up).

    Ansan Gotti wrote:
    Personally, I'm with you and Ozamataz and the others who believe it's more likely that Caesar will be an Overlord, than a Regent or King. But I acknowledge it's not a sure thing.
    I'm not sure where people are getting the Regent title from, so I won't comment on it, but I don't see it likely Caesar will become King. While nobles and royals can only be popped by sides ruled by royals, there's a distinction made between the two. They aren't the same thing with a different word. It's also not an heir thing; Tramennis and Ossomer both had the title of Prince even while King Slately had no heir and was trying to pop one.

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    Last edited by The Unlurked on Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 217
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:48 pm 
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    These events could give us some clues to how the Erfworld physical envirnoment interacts with erfworld metaphysical and mindspace. Dons string was completely cut. That could mean begining of next turn there could be nothing to send the signal down. That could mean the bodies of Don and Bunny, as well as Claud and Ivan cannot actually dissappear.

    --------
    Another question is what are the other end of strings actually attached too. Some sort of Erfworld central control? Or is everything just interconnected in a large nerual net without any actual central point? These are big important questions about how Erfworld works, and might be why the thinkamncers try to keep everythign secret. They don't want people to start messing with the actual fabric of reality.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 217
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:49 pm 
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    AJ Impy wrote:
    Vanna swore to only work for Royal sides, and her turn to Transylvito under Don fulfilled that, but under Overlord Caesar it does not.

    Caesar could order her to help turning Albert. If successful, TV would get a royal warlord again, regardless of what becomes of the prince Don tried to pop. I think Albert can now be considered Don's legacy and Vanna would fulfil both Bea's and Don's wishes by preserving TV as a royal side.

    Some questioning prior to that may be advisable, however, to find out if she is still under contract with Charlie, and what kind of contract that might be.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 217
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:56 pm 
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    The Unlurked wrote:
    Ansan Gotti wrote:
    Personally, I'm with you and Ozamataz and the others who believe it's more likely that Caesar will be an Overlord, than a Regent or King. But I acknowledge it's not a sure thing.


    I'm not sure where people are getting the Regent title from, so I won't comment on it, but I don't see it likely Caesar will become King. While nobles and royals can only be popped by sides ruled by royals, there's a distinction made between the two. They aren't the same thing with a different word. It's also not an heir thing; Tramennis and Ossomer both had the title of Prince even while King Slately had no heir and was trying to pop one.


    Yes, in case it hasn't been clear from my other posts, I agree more with your position than the others.

    Regency concepts are from this:

    https://wiki.erfworld.com/Regency

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 217
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:07 pm 
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    ok, first about things in the update

    it's not clear to me if the badness spell could complete it's ordeal in erasing Bunny (or deleting or croaking), and this could be about the doll (to go with the velveteen bunny)

    I agree with the people who pointed out that Ceasar has a great chance to turn the perfect warlord to TV, and since he's also fighting CHarlie I don't see why Fate would do anything to stop it

    Ceasar will have more insight on Vanna now as her ruler, maybe thing will change between them, I still think she has a chance of not being disbanded, even if a slight one

    Parson will have some room now to breath, turned or allied, TV is his only way to be right now

    Now about how I feel

    I liked Bunny and I don't think it would be a wasted death if we see her being brought back by the BunnyDoll, I mean, we all can see that all the detailing about the doll functions could lead as to a velveteen rabbit situation

    If Ceasar changes TVs signamancy, please Titan, make him see a red door and want it painted black...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 217
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:16 pm 
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    The Unlurked wrote:
    This update has really made me second guess second-guessing the Great Minds that Think Alike. I originally viewed what they did to Bunny as rash, but the more I think on it, the more it seems like they are trying to protect Thinkamancy from perversion into something horrible. That's why the spell reports back the motive for why you chose to abuse Thinkamancy as it kills you.

    Many of the secrets they keep are about how dangerous Thinkamancy really is. So far they have been shown to be trying to keep Thinkamancy as a tool to be used, instead of letting it become way for thinkamancers to dominate the world. The Bunny doll, for example, was a stepping stone to creating a way to misuse Thinkamancy to trap someone's essence in a vulnerable vessal to abuse them remotely. The Arkendish is a massive Thinkamancy invasion of privacy device in addition to whatever else it does.

    It's more of a professional guild that is trying to protect a monopoly than anything else.
    Having it known that Thinkamancers can kill with a thought would make people not want to hire them or otherwise just use them as battlefield artillery. They have a steady gig just being telecommunications well away from the front lines.

    Likewise, they don't like the Arkendish because it threatens that same telecomm monopoly and threatens to reveal their other secrets.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 217
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:22 pm 
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    Well, not more that I can say regarding the last update. Everyone else has already said it better than I could and the strip kind of speaks for itself. Powerful, Erf shaking stuff there and I can't wait to see where it goes next.

    I do have a question though since I'm kind of new to the forums and all. Someone said on here that if the kingdom falls any units in the field kind of un-pop and get wiped from existence. Isn't that how Jillian and her troops wound up as mercenaries though? They were away from Faq when Stanley crushed it and wound up without a side? It's kind of part of a pet project of mine since I'm working on a fan fiction that I might submit one day but my story kind of unravels if all units, including heirs, disappear if a side falls or is destroyed.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 217
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:29 pm 
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    Kepheren wrote:
    I do have a question though since I'm kind of new to the forums and all. Someone said on here that if the kingdom falls any units in the field kind of un-pop and get wiped from existence. Isn't that how Jillian and her troops wound up as mercenaries though? They were away from Faq when Stanley crushed it and wound up without a side?

    They were presumably stacked with Jillian, who was heir at the time. When Wanda's capital fell, all units not stacked with her disbanded, but she retained the ones in her personal stack.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 217
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:31 pm 
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    ...whoa whoa wait.

    Okay, first off, I would like to make a note that it bugs me more than it probably should that none of the Bat Pack names that were named in this update were references to actual members of the Rat Pack.

    Second, I would like to note something I just found out while double-checking that statement:

    One of the original members of the Rat Pack was Judy Garland. I don't know if anyone's ever brought that up before, I just found it interesting enough to mention.

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