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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
 Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:41 am 
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Tomman wrote:
Wow. Awesome update. Just about everything I could think of has already been posted, but I had a thought about Parson's possible tactics.

I admit it would be a long-shot, but what would happen if Parson or Parson\Maggie could convince Stanley to take the Dwagon-Express to help out Wanda?

In book 1 pg 113 http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=/113.jpg Stanley with 30+ dwagons and 3 knights was considered equal to 11 warlords with hundreds of bats, that included both Ceasar and Jillian, both high level warlords.

I'm just wondering what kind of bonuses would stack up there...
An interesting thought, but one which ignores Parson's contribution to this situation. The situation right now is that Wanda is separated from the main strength of the GK forces, and that it is not the GK turn. Wanda and her stack live and die by the actions of others. If this is resolved before the turn ends and without any input from Parson, then there was no need for Maggy to use the suggestion dust.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:30 am 
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    Ah, i hadn't thought about that. I was thinking that Parson's immediate contribution would be getting stanley out there, something that wouldn't happen without some serious prompting\suggestion, but there would be no point if they could just run away on their turn. Hmm, guess i'll just have to wait and see what happens. :D

    I still think it would be interesting to see what would happen with 2 artifact wielders working together.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:33 am 
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    Tomman wrote:
    I still think it would be interesting to see what would happen with 2 artifact wielders working together.


    Meh. Until the Arkensickle appears don't expect anything revolutionary.

    Oberon wrote:
    gazes_also wrote:
    Maybe she'll talk about her dream of raising dwagons in Montana, that'll pretty much seal the deal.
    Borodin: I would like to have seen Montana.


    Oh, and I know just the perfect soundtrack- that "dust in the wind" song. For extra cheese.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:44 am 
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    Tomman wrote:
    I still think it would be interesting to see what would happen with 2 artifact wielders working together.
    Meh. Until the Arkensickle appears don't expect anything revolutionary.


    I lol'd :P Didn't even think about that combination.

    -V

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:48 am 
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    ::facepalm:: @Bland. Clever.

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    The question is getting Wanda to honor the offer. They could keep going back and forth: offer, honor, offer, honor....
    Sorry*.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 11:15 am 
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    Tomman wrote:
    I still think it would be interesting to see what would happen with 2 artifact wielders working together.


    Meh. Until the Arkensickle appears don't expect anything revolutionary.


    So, you say you want a revolution?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:08 pm 
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    Oberon wrote:
    Tomman wrote:
    An interesting thought, but one which ignores Parson's contribution to this situation. The situation right now is that Wanda is separated from the main strength of the GK forces, and that it is not the GK turn. Wanda and her stack live and die by the actions of others. If this is resolved before the turn ends and without any input from Parson, then there was no need for Maggy to use the suggestion dust.


    On the contrary. If Stanley had chosen another uncroacked as chief warlord, then Wanda would basically stay in charge, since the uncroacked are more willing to follow her mistress's madness than to make what's more tactical sound (like "Kill and uncroack Jillian first, make questions later").

    Even if Jack's "we have more bodies than they have arrows" plan works and they escape whitout Parson's help, it doesn't change the fact that Wanda's military decisions are quite lacking, and with Parson back on top of the command chain(and not being an uncroacked) he's in a much better position to make sure Wanda doesn't get in such a bad situation again.

    Anyway, this is Parson we're talking about. If anyone can figure out an obscure rules loophole to move/reinforce Wanda out of his turn, it's him! :mrgreen:

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:10 pm 
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    Hahah... loved the update!

    Want to say that I especially love Maggie's expression in the last panel. That is a complex set of emotions playing across her face there. Looks mostly smug with traces of defiance and vulnerability to me.

    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    Tomman wrote:
    I still think it would be interesting to see what would happen with 2 artifact wielders working together.


    Meh. Until the Arkensickle appears don't expect anything revolutionary.

    Oberon wrote:
    gazes_also wrote:
    Maybe she'll talk about her dream of raising dwagons in Montana, that'll pretty much seal the deal.
    Borodin: I would like to have seen Montana.


    Oh, and I know just the perfect soundtrack- that "dust in the wind" song. For extra cheese.


    XD


    CelebrenIthil wrote:
    Oh well. Go Maggie! :D
    (also, I secretely want her to jump Parson. Screw the Archons dude, you gotta give yourself to une femme d'expérience. <_<
    Come on, she's the only gal around there you could have a non totally one-sided and awkward pillow talk either. >_>)
    *get shot*

    Yeah, c'mon Parson... you found someone that likes you for how good you are at turn-based strategy games. That's the dream, man!

    Come to think of it, I'm not sure Parson hasn't already been jumped... she does seem to have an excess of that dust.

    Uhh, Rob... if this comes to pass, text updates only plz...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:22 pm 
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Year of the Dwagon Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
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    effataigus wrote:
    Come to think of it, I'm not sure Parson hasn't already been jumped... she does seem to have an excess of that dust.

    Uhh, Rob... if this comes to pass, text updates only plz...


    What is it with you sick people I need another 60 gallons of brain bleach. So Rob please say no to these sick people. I dislike people who ship like this, put any reference in a new thread, like a crack pairings thread. This is starting to go off topic.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:46 pm 
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    badninja wrote:
    effataigus wrote:
    Come to think of it, I'm not sure Parson hasn't already been jumped... she does seem to have an excess of that dust.

    Uhh, Rob... if this comes to pass, text updates only plz...


    What is it with you sick people I need another 60 gallons of brain bleach. So Rob please say no to these sick people. I dislike people who ship like this, put any reference in a new thread, like a crack pairings thread. This is starting to go off topic.


    You're just saying that 'cause you're afraid it's true.

    . . . not that i think it is, but i would laugh my ass off if it were

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:37 pm 
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Year of the Dwagon Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
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    The Black Hand wrote:
    You're just saying that 'cause you're afraid it's true.

    . . . not that i think it is, but i would laugh my ass off if it were


    ROFLMAO to the small print.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:59 pm 
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    CorrTerek wrote:
    Quote:
    Also, why is the elephant called Irony? Is this something political?


    You've never heard the phrase "crushing irony"? Though good catch on the Republican symbolism there as well -- looks like there was more than one joke in that simple line.


    Just dropping in to point out that the irony is maybe enhanced by the image of a monarchist going to war riding a Republican symbol.

    In case someone has not yet noticed, the original meaning of "republican" is someone opposed to monarchy - a republic is a state with a president instead of a monarch, right? - so the whole Erfworld toolist/royalist opposition is reversed symbolically, with some pretty heavy irony ;)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:55 pm 
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    The elephant is not a symbol of a "republican," its the symbol of "Republicans."

    Notice the capital difference? It as big a difference as "waste" and "waist."

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:36 pm 
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    kwotski wrote:
    CorrTerek wrote:
    Quote:
    Also, why is the elephant called Irony? Is this something political?


    You've never heard the phrase "crushing irony"? Though good catch on the Republican symbolism there as well -- looks like there was more than one joke in that simple line.


    Just dropping in to point out that the irony is maybe enhanced by the image of a monarchist going to war riding a Republican symbol.


    Looks right to me!

    Also, I wouldn't try fighting grammar or spelling on the internet. its hope less cents theirs two many battels too chose ownly won.

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    Last edited by effataigus on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 am, edited 239044 times in total.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:39 pm 
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    That one panel is filled with allusions.

    1. A Ford-Expy is trampled by the symbol of the Republican party
    2. That symbol is rode by a royalist
    3. Crush, irony: irony means, amongst others, an unexpected outcome happening, but the defeat of Ford is the expected outcome

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:19 pm 
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    Oberon wrote:
    I think you're overlooking some of Parson's strengths. First, he doesn't necessarily negotiate assuming that he'll be successful. He negotiates because he may be successful, and that chance is worth his time and some Thinkagram juice. And he is well aware that negotiation is a double edged sword: His negotiation with Charlie that you correctly note that he is still in debt for saved his side, after all. And allowed him to convince Wanda not to fly off with their only flying units to go save Stanley. A pair of huge benefits, even taking into consideration the negative of being on the hook for about 9 more calculations.

    We also saw him make a second deal with Charlie, which also saved his side, when he convinced Charlie to end turn rather than assist the RCC in sacking GK. Not an insignificant bit of negotiating, I hope you'll agree. And one which had far reaching repercussions, too. Due to that deal, GK has Archons! Since they have Archons, Parson learned more about Charlie. The dividends keep paying off.

    I don't expect that Parson will ever be shown just ringing someone up and sealing the winning deal. But I do expect to see Parson talking to his opponents, and seeing if he can get some intel out of them or just stall or tweak their thinking processes. Or enrage them into an ill-considered attack. There are many ways to benefit from talking to your friends and enemies, and few ways to benefit from refusing to talk to your friends and enemies. Did you ever play the old game Diplomacy? The unique thing about this game was that there was a negotiation phase. If you were able to speak to every other player you had a good chance of learning about alliances being formed and moves being made. With this knowledge you could better plan your own moves. Of course, you could also be played... :P But if you refused to talk to anyone you could be assured that they were not going to be acting in your best interests. This is the kind of communications I see Parson succeeding in, a general discussion with the other players, whether they be friends or foes. The skilled communicator can gain from either sort of discussion.


    You make some good points, but if you substitute Charlie for Parson in your first sentence I think it would be closer to the truth. Charlie is the master negotiator on Erfworld and I think we see him Flynning Parson while keeping his longterm objectives in sight. When negotiating with Charlie Parson has a major bargaining chip that Charlie wants - Parson himself + his bracer. At first he was intrigued because Parson was a new unknown quantity, so he negotiated a taste of the merchandise before committing - the ten calculations. Next he negotiated giving a Parson a chance to survive. So it cost him a few Archons (as every negotiator knows somedays you get the bear, somedays the bear gets you) but the valuation of the merchandise went up. Charlie did not really press on those deals because keeping Parson open to him was more important. Parson has no similar advantage with anyone else, and has nothing to offer any royal in a deal. Communication and picking up cues is one thing. but real negotiating skill comes in negotiating from a weaker position and coming up with a creative win/win solution, we have not seen Parson do that.

    I still don't buy the Archons compromising Charlie's secrets beyond basic operational intel. He has a compartmentalized organization and it is most likely that field Archons operate on a Need to Know basis. Now, Parson maybe able to deduce some things from the Archons SOP, but Charlie has probably changed his protocols since then.

    How aware of Parson are the RCC leaders really? Some of them saw his projection talking to Ansom, but that was all. They may presume he died at GK as only casters could survive the volcano and the decrypted Ansom was appointed CWL. I don't recall Charlie discussing him with Jillian so it maybe a piece of information he's keeping for himself as a bargaining tool.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:33 pm 
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    Altima wrote:
    Kreia must be your poster child!

    Well, not just her at all but let's say that if you take KOTOR and the other Bioware RPGs out of the lot, I lose a bunch of kickass elderly females on my list, indeed.

    Altima wrote:
    Also, you're going straight to hell for the mini-text. Bad, bad! Now I must go bleach my brain.


    badninja wrote:
    CelebrenIthil wrote:
    (also, I secretely want her to jump Parson. Screw the Archons dude, you gotta give yourself to une femme d'expérience. <_<
    Come on, she's the only gal around there you could have a non totally one-sided and awkward pillow talk either. >_>)
    *get shot*



    You are one sick puppy.


    Piffle! Everyone can pass kinky comments about Wanda/Jillian without a single raised eyebrow and now you people climb in the curtains for that?
    Nonsense I say!
    I don't see the horror in pairing highly like-minded adults even if neither partner is a hottie by your standards.
    Always, always discrimination.... XD


    effataigus wrote:
    Yeah, c'mon Parson... you found someone that likes you for how good you are at turn-based strategy games. That's the dream, man!

    Come to think of it, I'm not sure Parson hasn't already been jumped... she does seem to have an excess of that dust.

    Uhh, Rob... if this comes to pass, text updates only plz...


    IDK if it is only "suggestion powder" or if it can be used as Amnesia Dust, but in any case that's very bad now. >_>
    Jumping is okay (it's not like he can't push her back from up his about-three-times-her-height-and-let's-not-even-imagine-weight), but no to mind-control. *waves finger*
    I don't think she'd do that anyways. XD


    badninja wrote:
    What is it with you sick people I need another 60 gallons of brain bleach. So Rob please say no to these sick people. I dislike people who ship like this, put any reference in a new thread, like a crack pairings thread. This is starting to go off topic.


    Well well, calm down there. *pat pat* We don't mean harm, crack pairings never hurt anybody, did they? It's just funny. :D
    If you don't like 'em, do not read the tiny text, it's tiny exactly so as it not jump to your face unless you choose to read it. ;)

    In any case, it does get slightly out of topic, but it's not like there is much more to say about this update now 9 pages onwards. The next comic will come and this thread will be forgotten. So, just relax, it's probably the end of it anyways. :)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:40 pm 
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    oslecamo2 wrote:
    ... it doesn't change the fact that Wanda's military decisions are quite lacking, and with Parson back on top of the command chain(and not being an uncroacked) he's in a much better position to make sure Wanda doesn't get in such a bad situation again.


    I wouldn't say Wanda's military decisions were lacking. She was acting on the advice of Parson with her last move after all. Since no-one knows how the RCC2 forced Stanley to end his turn early (other than Jillian/Charlie/Vanna), I think it's safe to say that no-one in Erfworld had seen that ability before, which means that there was no way for Wanda (or Parson) to predict it was going to happen.

    Based on what she knew, Wanda's decisions on her last turn were sound. There wasn't any reason for her to believe she wasn't going to be able to take out the King of Jetstone and fly away 'scot-free'.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:47 pm 
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    gazes_also wrote:
    How aware of Parson are the RCC leaders really? Some of them saw his projection talking to Ansom, but that was all. They may presume he died at GK as only casters could survive the volcano and the decrypted Ansom was appointed CWL. I don't recall Charlie discussing him with Jillian so it maybe a piece of information he's keeping for himself as a bargaining tool.


    Well, Parson DID go to the Magic Kingdom when GK was blown up by the volcano. Which means all of the casters there at the time knew he was alive along with the fact that they didn't expect him to be there. So they probably told their caster friends, who told their caster friends.... I would expect that any side with a caster who is fighting GK is going to know about Parson.

    But I don't think anyone but Charlie takes him as seriously as they need to. That's why Charlie doesn't want anyone on the RCC2 side to know about his level of involvement. He doesn't want Parson to know he's part of what's going on, so that Paron won't be able to counter what Charlie is doing. If Parson knows Charlie is involved, he'll start taking that into consideration when he's planning things.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:52 pm 
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    Tomman wrote:
    I still think it would be interesting to see what would happen with 2 artifact wielders working together.


    That could be down-right freaking scary. The Arkendish paired with the hammer or the pliers could mean the long-range conversion of dwagons, or long-range decryption. Talk about game-breaking.....

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