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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
 Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:58 am 
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Ninjaguineapig wrote:
Maggie used the wrong title for Stan. She forgot to call him Tool.

Maggie's called him Lord before, during her outburst after he appointed Ansom CW. Maybe she was insulated somewhat from the "Tool" order because she was linked when he made it, and has only been remembering to say it as a matter of convention, except when she's annoyed with him. Or maybe it signals whenever she's about to defy him, but for his own good.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 2:34 am 
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    Oberon wrote:
    Who was attacking Charlie? It was explicitly stated that Charlie was not allied with FAQ or anyone else. And yet he was a part of the casting. No one was in his hex or attacking him, he was safe in his city.


    "Officially" I think was an important word used when saying Charlie wasn't allied to anyone in the battlespace. And Vanna was there, she did the casting, even if she was boosted by a long range link.

    And - *sigh*

    Fug wrote:
    Question 2: Its curious that appointing a chief warlord isn't straightforward- what else do they give the troops besides their bonus? KC, Oss and Sylvia were all decrypted so presumably the highest level one would be best unless units get an attack AND defense bonus or one was more likely to survive than the other?


    Since it also gives the Chief Warlord control of planning etc it might include Parson's assesment of their ability to think creatively etc (Oss - pro - high attack/defense, con - not the sharpest sword in the armory).

    Plus I assume he'd run them through the bracer - If Sylvia is made Chief Warlord how does this affect the chances of Wanda surviving this turn - kind of thing.

    splintermute wrote:
    The standard answer is - "a wizard (Arkendish) did it." In this case, Charlie was under attack - see book 1, page 54 - the linked casters exist as a joint mind (although presumably the thinkamancer is responsible for the "joining" and the "freeing" of individual members). It's not that one person in the link is the caster, it's that every person in the link is the caster. Whatever threatens one (e.g. Slately talking to Vanna; GK flying into Vanna's hex) threatens them all, which is why Charlie was able to attack.


    That makes a lot of sense.

    Nihila wrote:
    My suspicions are that Maggie prepared a magic item with the effects of a suggestion spell. It seems to be the kind of devious, underhanded, totally awesomely clever thing she'd do, just in case it became necessary.


    That also makes a great deal of sense.

    gazes_also wrote:
    I don't understand this recurring idea that Parson is a smart negotiator. We've seen one instance of him antagonizing someone to provoke them into hasty action, and we saw him making a deal with Charlie he is still indebted for. He can't convince Stanley of anything; and yet he is expected to be able to strike a deal with whoever is the apparently most amenable threat at the moment (lately it's been Sammy, Charlie, and now Trammenis) and get them to let GK off the hook as a personal favour to Parson because he asks them nicely. I just don't get it.


    He's jousted with Charlie, but yes, that is a good point - we've seen Parson the warlord but we haven't see much of Parson the diplomat or negotiator. Plus from what we have seen of him here he doesn't seem to even be thinking in terms of "lets try and talk this out", it is still all planning for the fight, who would be the best warlord for the situation etc.

    Ansan Gotti wrote:
    But then he says here's how to make the plan better. Have all of the dwagons flying high over the tower rather than the walls. As each dwagon gets low on hits, have it dive bomb straight toward the tower. It's slain before it hits the zone boundary, but the momentum carries it crashing into the tower.

    THEN decrypt.


    I think that theory came up in one of the previous threads (the one following Jack's speech on decryption), and the big question seemed to be whether Wanda would be able to decrypt something that had passed beyond the zone she is currently stuck in, and Jack did specify Wanda would have to be fast enough to catch them as they fell.

    Plus talk of maging a flying fortress out of dwagon corpses and bubble pop.

    Davre wrote:
    I guess there could have been guards outside the room but I think it is more likely that the MK has a very, very strict policy against casters doing that sort of thing. Perhaps magically enforced. Actually, it might even be impossible to enter a portal in the MK that goes to kingdom that does not employ you (or is not allied) whatever your intentions.


    That would make sense, and it could apply doubly if you are attempting to go from your capital to the MK and then to a non-allied city while it is their turn and not yours.

    And isn't the GK portal under guard on the MK side and Parson isn't allowed to return anyway? And Parson did enter the MK a very short while after the trimancers and there was already a number of casters there with wands at the ready.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 6:50 am 
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    Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
    Plus I assume he'd run them through the bracer - If Sylvia is made Chief Warlord how does this affect the chances of Wanda surviving this turn - kind of thing.

    I think it is pretty much foreshadowed that Sylvia is going to sacrifice herself to save Wanda.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:23 am 
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    asparagus wrote:
    Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
    Plus I assume he'd run them through the bracer - If Sylvia is made Chief Warlord how does this affect the chances of Wanda surviving this turn - kind of thing.

    I think it is pretty much foreshadowed that Sylvia is going to sacrifice herself to save Wanda.


    Sylvia wearing a red-shirt and a passing resemblance to Wanda, a Sylvia Plath reference and her (EDIT: somewhat) Vasquez-like demeanor suggest you're right.

    The only thing she hasn't done (yet) is fondly regard a picture of the kids back home, thinking she'll have to spend more time with them now that she retires today.

    So, will one of Erfworld's dark horses somehow cheat fate yet again? Or will the Titans finally find the resources to off her? Tune in next time!

    And becoming Tools wouldn't hurt.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:37 am 
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    Ansan Gotti wrote:
    Dwagons in the midst of soft, squishy archers = win. For bonus points, the dwagons manage to cap Slately.


    It is unclear if the pliers can fire accross zone boundaries. If it hits the dwagon before the zone boundary, then it won't be able to pass through the boundary. If it has already crossed, then the beam will hit the boundary and be blocked.

    Maybe, she needs to time it so that it is 80% across the boundary, so the decryped unit counts as being in the other zone.

    I wonder if all units have a position point where they count for things like that. Once that point crosses the boundary, then the unit counts as having crossed, and thus cannot be hit from the previous zone. That is how it would work in games, the point is where the unit really is, but there is still graphics that makes the unit solid.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:43 am 
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    Sylvia wearing a red-shirt and a passing resemblance to Wanda, a Sylvia Plath reference and her (EDIT: somewhat) Vasquez-like demeanor suggest you're right.

    The only thing she hasn't done (yet) is fondly regard a picture of the kids back home, thinking she'll have to spend more time with them now that she retires today.


    Maybe she'll talk about her dream of raising dwagons in Montana, that'll pretty much seal the deal.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:36 am 
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    gazes_also wrote:
    Maybe she'll talk about her dream of raising dwagons in Montana, that'll pretty much seal the deal.


    Montana? You mean the Central Minty Mountains, surely.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 12:22 pm 
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    The Old Hack wrote:
    Random it may be, but I nonetheless agree. It's nice to see someone like Maggie kick behind. Though if I may mention one exception to the elderly little lady, Miss Marple should certainly count. Lord Peter Wimsey's mother, the Dowager Duchess, might be another example; she may only rarely have a large part but every time she opens her mouth she is awesome.


    I'm happy to hear you! Of course, there aren't NONE of these awesome somewhat-old-female-characters-that-kick-asses but that's probably the smallest demographic. I can name a few amazing characters from that age group too (also, go Miss Marple!) but I soon run short of names, whereas, say, naming cool-and-badass-aged-MALE-characters I could go for hours or almost. I think I can name more badass female children more easily and of course I can name badass sexy young adult females all day...
    Aged females do get the short end of the stick in getting nice roles and screentime and plot significance. D:

    Oh well. Go Maggie! :D
    (also, I secretely want her to jump Parson. Screw the Archons dude, you gotta give yourself to une femme d'expérience. <_<
    Come on, she's the only gal around there you could have a non totally one-sided and awkward pillow talk either. >_>)
    *get shot*


    Octavian wrote:
    Anyone else think Parson's getting kinda thin? He's definitely not as corpulent as he was in book 1...

    IT'S. THE. BOOPIN'. STAIRS! XD
    ....
    Well, he sure generally has to exercise more than when he was in Earth-reality,among other things, from having to walk all around Gobwin Knob to make sure everything runs fine (and thus giving bonuses to the city) ((it was in a summer update I can't be bothered to search for)).

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 12:47 pm 
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    raphfrk wrote:
    Ansan Gotti wrote:
    Dwagons in the midst of soft, squishy archers = win. For bonus points, the dwagons manage to cap Slately.


    It is unclear if the pliers can fire accross zone boundaries. If it hits the dwagon before the zone boundary, then it won't be able to pass through the boundary. If it has already crossed, then the beam will hit the boundary and be blocked.

    Maybe, she needs to time it so that it is 80% across the boundary, so the decryped unit counts as being in the other zone.

    I wonder if all units have a position point where they count for things like that. Once that point crosses the boundary, then the unit counts as having crossed, and thus cannot be hit from the previous zone. That is how it would work in games, the point is where the unit really is, but there is still graphics that makes the unit solid.


    Mebbe one or two dragons could dangle a dead dragon half way through the boundary while Wanda zaps it. ... :lol: Even if they only got a handful of decrypted dragons on the ground they could be pretty useful.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:57 pm 
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    splintermute wrote:
    Ninjaguineapig wrote:
    Maggie used the wrong title for Stan. She forgot to call him Tool.

    Maggie's called him Lord before, during her outburst after he appointed Ansom CW. Maybe she was insulated somewhat from the "Tool" order because she was linked when he made it, and has only been remembering to say it as a matter of convention, except when she's annoyed with him. Or maybe it signals whenever she's about to defy him, but for his own good.


    Maybe that's a sign of low loyalty; she feels less compelled to follow his orders.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 3:56 pm 
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    Octavian wrote:
    Anyone else think Parson's getting kinda thin? He's definitely not as corpulent as he was in book 1...


    Decent food and exercise will do that. ;)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 6:33 pm 
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    Welf von Ehrwald wrote:
    splintermute wrote:
    Ninjaguineapig wrote:
    Maggie used the wrong title for Stan. She forgot to call him Tool.

    Maggie's called him Lord before, during her outburst after he appointed Ansom CW. Maybe she was insulated somewhat from the "Tool" order because she was linked when he made it, and has only been remembering to say it as a matter of convention, except when she's annoyed with him. Or maybe it signals whenever she's about to defy him, but for his own good.


    Maybe that's a sign of low loyalty; she feels less compelled to follow his orders.

    Except she very deliberately followed his orders here...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:38 pm 
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    CelebrenIthil wrote:
    The Old Hack wrote:
    Random it may be, but I nonetheless agree. It's nice to see someone like Maggie kick behind. Though if I may mention one exception to the elderly little lady, Miss Marple should certainly count. Lord Peter Wimsey's mother, the Dowager Duchess, might be another example; she may only rarely have a large part but every time she opens her mouth she is awesome.


    I'm happy to hear you! Of course, there aren't NONE of these awesome somewhat-old-female-characters-that-kick-asses but that's probably the smallest demographic. I can name a few amazing characters from that age group too (also, go Miss Marple!) but I soon run short of names, whereas, say, naming cool-and-badass-aged-MALE-characters I could go for hours or almost. I think I can name more badass female children more easily and of course I can name badass sexy young adult females all day...
    Aged females do get the short end of the stick in getting nice roles and screentime and plot significance. D:

    Oh well. Go Maggie! :D
    (also, I secretely want her to jump Parson. Screw the Archons dude, you gotta give yourself to une femme d'expérience. <_<
    Come on, she's the only gal around there you could have a non totally one-sided and awkward pillow talk either. >_>)
    *get shot*



    Kreia must be your poster child!

    Also, you're going straight to hell for the mini-text. Bad, bad! Now I must go bleach my brain.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:30 pm 
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    gazes_also wrote:
    I don't understand this recurring idea that Parson is a smart negotiator. We've seen one instance of him antagonizing someone to provoke them into hasty action, and we saw him making a deal with Charlie he is still indebted for. He can't convince Stanley of anything; and yet he is expected to be able to strike a deal with whoever is the apparently most amenable threat at the moment (lately it's been Sammy, Charlie, and now Trammenis) and get them to let GK off the hook as a personal favour to Parson because he asks them nicely. I just don't get it.
    I think you're overlooking some of Parson's strengths. First, he doesn't necessarily negotiate assuming that he'll be successful. He negotiates because he may be successful, and that chance is worth his time and some Thinkagram juice. And he is well aware that negotiation is a double edged sword: His negotiation with Charlie that you correctly note that he is still in debt for saved his side, after all. And allowed him to convince Wanda not to fly off with their only flying units to go save Stanley. A pair of huge benefits, even taking into consideration the negative of being on the hook for about 9 more calculations.

    We also saw him make a second deal with Charlie, which also saved his side, when he convinced Charlie to end turn rather than assist the RCC in sacking GK. Not an insignificant bit of negotiating, I hope you'll agree. And one which had far reaching repercussions, too. Due to that deal, GK has Archons! Since they have Archons, Parson learned more about Charlie. The dividends keep paying off.

    I don't expect that Parson will ever be shown just ringing someone up and sealing the winning deal. But I do expect to see Parson talking to his opponents, and seeing if he can get some intel out of them or just stall or tweak their thinking processes. Or enrage them into an ill-considered attack. There are many ways to benefit from talking to your friends and enemies, and few ways to benefit from refusing to talk to your friends and enemies. Did you ever play the old game Diplomacy? The unique thing about this game was that there was a negotiation phase. If you were able to speak to every other player you had a good chance of learning about alliances being formed and moves being made. With this knowledge you could better plan your own moves. Of course, you could also be played... :P But if you refused to talk to anyone you could be assured that they were not going to be acting in your best interests. This is the kind of communications I see Parson succeeding in, a general discussion with the other players, whether they be friends or foes. The skilled communicator can gain from either sort of discussion.

    Octavian wrote:
    Anyone else think Parson's getting kinda thin? He's definitely not as corpulent as he was in book 1...
    There was a Summer update where Parson commented that, due to his daily rounds of the city and hikes up and down the tower (Parson deliberately chose quarters far from Stanley, and Stanley would summon Parson at a whim, forcing Parson to climb the tower stairs again) that his triple chins had become doubles. Or something to that effect.

    gazes_also wrote:
    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    The only thing she hasn't done (yet) is fondly regard a picture of the kids back home, thinking she'll have to spend more time with them now that she retires today.
    Maybe she'll talk about her dream of raising dwagons in Montana, that'll pretty much seal the deal.
    Borodin: I would like to have seen Montana.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:29 pm 
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    In panel three, with the curtain behind her, Maggie looks like a Nephilim from Shadowbane.

    You can sort of see one at the link below, with a different hairstyle. Best I could do considering the game is defunct.
    http://community.shadowbaneemulator.com ... post234513

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:30 pm 
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Year of the Dwagon Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
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    CelebrenIthil wrote:
    (also, I secretely want her to jump Parson. Screw the Archons dude, you gotta give yourself to une femme d'expérience. <_<
    Come on, she's the only gal around there you could have a non totally one-sided and awkward pillow talk either. >_>)
    *get shot*



    You are one sick puppy.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:51 pm 
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    Wow. Awesome update. Just about everything I could think of has already been posted, but I had a thought about Parson's possible tactics.

    I admit it would be a long-shot, but what would happen if Parson or Parson\Maggie could convince Stanley to take the Dwagon-Express to help out Wanda?

    In book 1 pg 113 http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=/113.jpg Stanley with 30+ dwagons and 3 knights was considered equal to 11 warlords with hundreds of bats, that included both Ceasar and Jillian, both high level warlords.

    I'm just wondering what kind of bonuses would stack up there...
    2x Artifacts affecting dwagons and decrypted
    Master class Croakamancer leading decrypted
    Multiple warlords leading stacks
    Stanley's personal bonus leading a stack (He was a high level warlord before becoming the ruler if i recall correctly)
    Stanley leading a Dancefight with Wanda enabling the decrypted to join in?
    Maybe a bonus for having the side's ruler in the zone? (Can't remember offhand if that was covered in one of the Jillian updates)
    Also whatever Jack can do for them. Maybe use Foolamancy to extend the dancefight to the ground troops?

    Anyway, i didn't see anyone else bring it up, and i hope this is the right place. :)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:38 pm 
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    Oh, man!
    I'm disappointed in Maggie.
    I thought she had the dust with her (that she was prepared). In panel 4 she's pulling the sack out of under the table. She stashed it there in preparation for eventually, she didn't know she would specifically need it this turn.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:50 pm 
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    Tomman wrote:
    Wow. Awesome update. Just about everything I could think of has already been posted, but I had a thought about Parson's possible tactics.

    I admit it would be a long-shot, but what would happen if Parson or Parson\Maggie could convince Stanley to take the Dwagon-Express to help out Wanda?


    No good. In order for Stanley to get there, it would need to be GK's turn. Otherwise, No GK Dwagon has any move, or just can't move, not sure how that works.

    Anyways, if its GK's turn, then Wanda and Co. could just flee the site.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 32
     Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 1:26 am 
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    Ninjaguineapig wrote:
    She stashed it there in preparation for eventually, she didn't know she would specifically need it this turn.

    She gets along very well with Sizemore, and Sizemore knew from Janice that things would go bad and Parson would need to be nudged to become chief. I think Sizemore subcontracted the job of nudging to Maggie.

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