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 Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 213
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:39 am 
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Ozamataz Buckshank wrote:
Sounds like Charlie's being extra careful to make Jillian not his agent in all this.

it sure sounded like she wanted to hold it.


She can't hold it. She can't leave enough troops there if she wants to defend FAQ at all (which is currently defenseless).

And she REALLY can't hold it if she's going to go attack some other major city and have any hope of success.


Polvane the eraser wrote:
Also I'm really disappointed that the city of GK had no lava-based defenses.


Hey, yeah. Kinda dumb to have a lava moat when attackers can just walk right up to the gate.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 213
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:14 am 
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    Just a bone for all the volcano fans out there. The volcano is not a part of the city. It's the terrain type of the hex. Jillian can raze GK, or hold it, or build an entirely new city, but the volcano remains, and at least for now the original trio that used it still exists. So for everyone who's disappointed that the city fell with a whimper... I suspect once the contract expires it'll come back with a bang. :D

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 213
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:16 am 
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    Arcel Sorm wrote:
    Interesting page and... interesting how little GK was defended, even if it was no longer the capital, it was one heck of a good city if I was not mistaken...

    Also... did I miss something, or... what was the deal with the black staff? I didn't see a single mention of it in the comments(did the search function for "staff" and it wasn't on any pages)... either people completely passed over it or its something from the past I forgot... I'm just... very curious what it is... and why Queen Jill didn't have it in that final pic... what was the staff?

    A Rifle

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 213
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:23 am 
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    Demiel wrote:
    , and at least for now the original trio that used it still exists. :D


    What does that mean?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 213
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:45 am 
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    magusjuniperb wrote:
    Um...okay, is it just me, or is this update full of problems? Now, I know Jillian gets a lot of flack in the forums, but she's usually known as a pretty good strategist, right? She's lost her jester, and all the symbolism/possibility of that meaning, but no matter what, at heart she's a commander. She fights. That is what she does, how she identifies herself, and her main strength.

    Now, the actual battle for GK and after somewhat make sense. But leading up to it? She makes a ton of assumptions, all of which are completely wrong. We know she's had plenty of communication from royal allies...I don't understand how they just slipped her mind. Here's what she should know:
    a) That Spacerock is the new capital. She knows Stanley isn't at GK city b/c she planned on using GK city to fund her war against Stanley.
    b) She knows there was a magical battle/mess at MK, and that Wanda was captured. Considering how obsessed she is with both Ansom and Wanda, how did she just forget* about this? She thinks Wanda got out of that mess so quickly? Was the letter not clear about the significance or did she just dismiss it as 'magic stuff'.

    I can't fault her for thinking Ansom would have contacted Maggie, and assuming they had a two-turn prep. I guess it comes down to how much info she got through royal intelligence about the MK battle. It just seems like...all the assumptions she made about everyone being at GK ready to fight her wasn't just lack of good intelligence, it actually felt really self-centered somehow. Especially the part when she waxed anxious about Wanda being at the battle. Isn't GK (side) rather big now? Spacerock is all the way at the other end of GK city. It's not that* impossible that they wouldn't have fortified GK city as much, right? Am I missing something?


    Simply put, Jillian was preparing herself for the worst.

    She didn't know the GK lost their thinkamancer and thus assumed Ansom would have warned GK about her imminent attack. As such they would have spent the last 2 turns Bringing in whatever forces they could get to the city. If she knows about Dwagon relays like Trammenis did, then it is is plausible that Stanley himself could be guarding the city along with every dwagon within two turns flight of GK. Heck, the guns she received from Charlie, also started making her think that maybe he knows this is gonna be a tough fight with GK possibly having guns of her own. Her thinking even seems to be getting down right paranoid which is why she's suddenly thinking that Wanda may have gotten out of her situation in the MK earlier than expected and she too could be defending the city.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 213
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:54 am 
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    I love the jab at OOTS. :) Seems like Ansom is way more experienced in dealing with mountain giants while flying through a pass than Rich's characters are. :D

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 213
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:10 am 
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    PrismCat wrote:
    Looooong time lurker. Registered to ask a question.

    I doubt I'm the first to think of this, but I haven't seen it asked in the forums yet.
    Does the contract specify that only GK units and their agents cannot cause harm?
    Does Jed in any way count as a unit? Or is he simply a tower or building?
    If he attacks Jillian of his own volition, without orders from anyone, would it trigger a breach since he's not a unit?


    I cannot possibly begrudge being ninja'd via a substantial de-lurk; well-spotted and have a shmucker!

    I think this point will become terribly relevant to the main storyline if Jillian ends up at Spacerock with the contract still in force. Jed's not registering as a sided unit to either Stanley or Parson's respective perceptions strikes me as the sort of Erfworld technicality that both Rob and Parson like to leverage off of.

    So, looks to me like a classic race-against-time is developing between Jillian's march on Spacerock vs. Parson and the GK captives being freed in some fashion vs the expiration of the contract. And the pot boiling in the MK.

    Genre-informed analysis suggests that Jed, the Juggles, and any other Chekhov's guns lying about at Spacerock will be brought into play, but there is still an open question of whether that conflict is going to involve FAQ, Charlescomm, or some combination of both and in what order.

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     Post subject: Giant Rocks
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:16 am 
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    *looks at GiantITP*

    *laughs the laughter of the laughing*

    Current comic: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1059.html - The Fight Is Not Over.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 213
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:18 am 
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    magusjuniperb wrote:
    Here's what she should know:
    a) That Spacerock is the new capital. She knows Stanley isn't at GK city b/c she planned on using GK city to fund her war against Stanley.
    b) She knows there was a magical battle/mess at MK, and that Wanda was captured. Considering how obsessed she is with both Ansom and Wanda, how did she just forget* about this? She thinks Wanda got out of that mess so quickly? Was the letter not clear about the significance or did she just dismiss it as 'magic stuff'.

    I can't fault her for thinking Ansom would have contacted Maggie, and assuming they had a two-turn prep. I guess it comes down to how much info she got through royal intelligence about the MK battle. It just seems like...all the assumptions she made about everyone being at GK ready to fight her wasn't just lack of good intelligence, it actually felt really self-centered somehow. Especially the part when she waxed anxious about Wanda being at the battle. Isn't GK (side) rather big now? Spacerock is all the way at the other end of GK city. It's not that* impossible that they wouldn't have fortified GK city as much, right? Am I missing something?


    So, this update went through a weird last-minute revision where I guess I had a massive brain fart about what Jillian did and did not know. That was an edit where I wanted to ratchet up the worry/tension there for her with an idle personalization of the worry. I've retconjured the one paragraph now. :oops:

    I really need to learn to question my last-minute revisions, because something like half the things I have had to retconjure after posting involved stupid "polish" elements like this, where I just want to make it a little more awesome before posting, but my head is not really in "writing space" at the time.

    So I tipped you 10 for catching b, but a is a-okay. With the heads-up that she was massing an attack force, she was expecting some kind of massive resistance, where Round 2 vs. the Arkenhammer was a distinct possibility.

    Sorry to foul the Reactions thread by posting and answering, but I do try to own up when I've reconned an actual author error like this. ]8\

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 213
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:21 am 
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    Polvane the eraser wrote:
    Sigh. And that means Georgia Power is gone.


    We should mourn Zhopa as well.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 213
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:24 am 
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    Messenger wrote:
    Polvane the eraser wrote:
    Sigh. And that means Georgia Power is gone.


    We should mourn Zhopa as well.

    Zhopa's already moved to Spacerock.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 213
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:46 am 
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    I hope the archons were acting on their own initiative here, as I dont think this would have been a good move for charlie. Letting guns not only into the wild, but into yet another sides hands? That is going to bring about even more notice, and just for taking gobwin knob? He should have not shown them to more players till a time, specially since it seems she was likely to take the city already.

    I think with the dish down charlie is not micromanaging things as much and some of the archons might be acting with what they think is best, specially if they were low rank. They might have even left the city while charlie was budding or incapacitated. It seemed like it was only a few, maybe two, and it is possible that archons might be armed at charlescomm because of the damaged security.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 213
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:17 am 
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    OneHugeTuck wrote:
    I'm super disappointed in the automagical whatever you call it. The 'intent' and understanding of the agreement was supposed to hold relevance.

    Charlie TOTALLY knows what she's doing, and is helping her do it. He is intentionally causing harm to GK.

    No automagical punishment?

    I'm disappointed.

    I agree, automagic is apparently easy to trick.

    On the other hand, I just realised that Don clearly made some deal with charlie, and is probably smart enough to have got it in writing. :twisted:
    If Don was contracted by charlie to remove Parson from play, and then Don started hitting Parson, what happens? If GK paid TV to buy some healing scrolls, they could beat the entirety of Charlie's treasury out of parson, provided they can get enough healing.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 213
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:38 am 
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    jojolagger wrote:
    If Don was contracted by charlie to remove Parson from play, and then Don started hitting Parson, what happens? If GK paid TV to buy some healing scrolls, they could beat the entirety of Charlie's treasury out of parson, provided they can get enough healing.

    Charlie tortured Lilith at no penalty, so I am going to guess that GK prisoners do not count as GK units.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 213
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:06 am 
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    ManaCaster wrote:
    jojolagger wrote:
    If Don was contracted by charlie to remove Parson from play, and then Don started hitting Parson, what happens? If GK paid TV to buy some healing scrolls, they could beat the entirety of Charlie's treasury out of parson, provided they can get enough healing.

    Charlie tortured Lilith at no penalty, so I am going to guess that GK prisoners do not count as GK units.


    They were also careful not to capture Lilith out of fear of penalty. A better option would be to capture and release repeatedly.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 213
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:18 am 
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    Quote:
    I cannot possibly begrudge being ninja'd via a substantial de-lurk; well-spotted and have a shmucker!


    Woohoo, I'm Rich!!! Thank you kind sir :)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 213
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:42 am 
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    balder wrote:
    magusjuniperb wrote:
    Here's what she should know:
    a) That Spacerock is the new capital. She knows Stanley isn't at GK city b/c she planned on using GK city to fund her war against Stanley.
    b) She knows there was a magical battle/mess at MK, and that Wanda was captured. Considering how obsessed she is with both Ansom and Wanda, how did she just forget* about this? She thinks Wanda got out of that mess so quickly? Was the letter not clear about the significance or did she just dismiss it as 'magic stuff'.

    I can't fault her for thinking Ansom would have contacted Maggie, and assuming they had a two-turn prep. I guess it comes down to how much info she got through royal intelligence about the MK battle. It just seems like...all the assumptions she made about everyone being at GK ready to fight her wasn't just lack of good intelligence, it actually felt really self-centered somehow. Especially the part when she waxed anxious about Wanda being at the battle. Isn't GK (side) rather big now? Spacerock is all the way at the other end of GK city. It's not that* impossible that they wouldn't have fortified GK city as much, right? Am I missing something?


    So, this update went through a weird last-minute revision where I guess I had a massive brain fart about what Jillian did and did not know. That was an edit where I wanted to ratchet up the worry/tension there for her with an idle personalization of the worry. I've retconjured the one paragraph now. :oops:

    I really need to learn to question my last-minute revisions, because something like half the things I have had to retconjure after posting involved stupid "polish" elements like this, where I just want to make it a little more awesome before posting, but my head is not really in "writing space" at the time.

    So I tipped you 10 for catching b, but a is a-okay. With the heads-up that she was massing an attack force, she was expecting some kind of massive resistance, where Round 2 vs. the Arkenhammer was a distinct possibility.

    Sorry to foul the Reactions thread by posting and answering, but I do try to own up when I've reconned an actual author error like this. ]8\


    Oh, thanks! I wrote the comment late last night for me, and only now do I realize how aggressive it sounds, which was completely unintentional! I was really frustrated at Jillian, and we know how sometimes she tends to overlook things. I genuinely thought it was a plot-meant device somehow, and was looking for an explanation/hypothesis of implication.

    As always, thank you for writing such a wonderful story. Can't wait for the next updates/aftermath!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 213
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:48 am 
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    easter wrote:
    Who are the Archons singnamancy from? The one on (our) left is giving me a weird Daria sort of vibe (the show, not the character) but the main one is giving me Lucy? Which would make the one beside her the red hair girl but like... who they are is on the tip of my brain. It's killing me.


    It's killing me too. Normally, I'm quite good at guessing at that sort of thing, but this one got me stumped. Maybe they're from the cast of "The Nanny"?!... CC Babcock and Fran Fine? I have no idea. Although the 3rd, hidden archon looks more like Fran Fine IMO.

    CC Babcock, she had more similar haircut to the one of the archon in a 2nd season of "The Nanny".

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    Or maybe spice girls? Hex girls? Charmed ones? I have no clue.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 213
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:09 am 
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    O)dd question, does anyone have a copy of the original paragraph, i was quite late seeing this, curious as to what changed...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 213
     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:15 am 
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    I assume I correctly identified a dig at OotS in here?

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