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 Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 195
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:16 am 
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themunck wrote:
ScottishMongol wrote:
themunck wrote:
Looks close. Is this the first time Charlie has been in the form of a person not named Charles?


Look again. Real name was Charles Luciano.

Ah, so it was. I just looked at the side bar and saw his birth name was Salvatore, without reading the main article and thus learning he changed it.


I'm a bit late on this reply, but he may not even have "changed it" of his own choice.

My great grandfather was also born Salvatore in Italy, but his Social Security card read "Samuel Ross" (family name was Omogrosso). I believe he was just basically given the Anglicized version when he got to Ellis Island.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 195
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:33 am 
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    hshelton wrote:
    "Lucky" Luciano, I didn't realize he changed his name to Charles. Now the title makes sense.

    Anyone know what the bubble between Vanna and the Bat is supposed to be?

    Lucky Luciano? Now why would Charlie take the form of a cowboy infront of Don King...


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     Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:48 am 
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    totalnerduk wrote:
    Bill, a thinkamancer, and Wanda, could possibly take the master string from an enemy unit, give it to a doll (croaking the unit in the process), and thus create a zombie trapped in a strange body, bound to serve them whilst not being under the love spell of the pliers. A tormented soul in a strange purgatory where they're forced to croak units they still view as their own side.


    Or... the Pliers could sever the master string from some hapless unit, croaking it and leaving the body whole; and then detach the master string from some other unit (say, one that is physically incapacitated and crippled by addiction) and attach it to the fresh, healthy body.

    Know anyone who might be interested in that?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 195
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:59 am 
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    wih wrote:
    Brony83 wrote:
    Wait, is it "Transylvitan" or "Transylvitian"? On this page I have seen both versions, but since they're Rob's creations I have no way of telling which one is correct.


    Crisco wrote:
    Also, I saw it mentioned near the beginning of the thread, but it apparently hasn't been retconjured yet:

    The update wrote:
    Little Charlie rolled his eyes. "I realized that subtlety's pretty much wasted on Transylvitans, huh? On account of you're all a little slow."


    Later in the update wrote:
    "You think Slately...bein a slow Transylvitian, it took me a little time..."


    I suppose it could be intentional, to imply Charlie mispronouncing the word to assert how much he just doesn't care, but it doesn't seem likely that's the case.


    They're likely slightly different words that are being used for the same purpose in this instance. ian being an adjective being used as a noun, and an being the plain noun.

    Given the Italian leanings, I was thinking it should have been "Transylvitos".

    Also, unless all of these guys are also "Charlies"
    http://archives.erfworld.com/Book+2/177
    then he has appeared as someone other than "Charlie".

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 195
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:59 am 
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    Dame_Hanalla wrote:
    Arci wrote:
    I mean if nothing else, they could at least double the number of bats GK has to defend themselves with.


    I'd imagine that link would make Frankenstein's monsters, as these are basically flesh golems assembled out of body parts.

    I'm more or less working on a spreadsheet listing what known link-ups can create (e.g.: Laurel of Napster) and what we could expect of other ones. Should I post this so we can all gather our guesses, instead of just having disparate suggestions buried in update threads? Or maybe something like that already exists, maybe in the wiki?


    I'd certainly be curious about that.

    Currently I see mono-casting as a kind of sphere around the discipline. I see linked casting (discipline-1/thinkamancy/discipline-2) as two spheres close enough together to overlap, making a 2-dimensional circle where they both have the greatest influence (going too far one way or another disrupts the balance). Therefore, a 7-way link like the "summon perfect warlord" spell, using 2 such (d-1/t/d-2) links and linking THOSE together would result in a 1-dimensional line where the two circles intersected each other.

    As disciplines link together, what they can do is phenomena, but their flexibility diminishes considerably, needing to only cast something equally (or nearly equally) relative to both of the two disciplines (not counting thinkamancy) involved.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 195
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:18 am 
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    Transylvitans is a typo, Transylvitians is correct. I'll retconjure it when we're home from the con, sorry.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 195
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:56 am 
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    Sunny wrote:
    ManaCaster wrote:
    Not here no, but we've seen great ranged Thinkamancy projections here and here. If those are Foolamancy too, then that means there really should be a way for Foolamancers to cast out of hex.

    In the first one, Maggie is projecting Ansom's image for Parson, same as Bunny is doing for Don in this update.
    The second one is interesting. My guess is that the floating ball is projecting Don's image.


    Perhaps an alternative to long range Foolamancy projection is that the Thinkamancer is able to use some natural Thinkamancy in every unit that the Thinkamancer decides to project Foolamancy to. That's a great boundary between Think/Foolamancy as opposed to the Foolamancy/Lookamancy kind Jack is used to. Perhaps having all three disciplines in GK before Misty died does reduce need to explore the different disciplines.

    ---

    Also about the linkup speculation - wasn't there a forum post that gets people to think up 3-caster linkups? I think converting that to a table would help. Although it'll be a HUGE 24x24 table that perhaps can contain a short name of product produced e.g. Jed, Eyemancy table, guns, Laurel of Napster etc. etc.

    BUT.

    1. Multiclass casting by a caster might complicate things, such as guns, if we're assume it's a Claud/Charlie/Ivan product with Claud contributing to the Dollamancy and Weirdomancy, and Summon Perfect Warlord is just a mess. Unless we limit ourselves to only the 3 primary disciplines the casters in the linkups are, the table will be undisplayable in the physical world as us Stupidworlders can observe..

    1.1 Unless...scroll creation is entirely different to item creation via linkup, and only requires components from each class involved which does not necessarily involve linkups? This would explain the differences between SPW and DPW, with one being a separately made spell and one being a spell created in a Charlie and (more than likely) Claud? It's always fun to think of a way that isn't 'Charlie used Carnymancy'.

    1.2 Toy soldier theorising sidetrack - between Ace/Maggie/Jack (that's the combination right?) there are 4 disciplines to use. Dollamancy, Weirdomancy, Thinkamancy and Foolamancy. What if, Dollamancy creates unit based on tchotchkes, Foolamancy makes it veiled green, and Weirdomancy gives the scouting special? The key take-home message is that the wiki is probably wrong IMO about the origins of scouting special. Which leads us to..

    1.2.1 The camera is a Ace/Maggie/Isaac product added onto the toy soldier which allows recording of images which uses a very small amount of Thinkamancy from the wielder/camera (given that the golem is a mindless being) and Lookamancy contained in the camera, which allows recording of an image by that unit, if retrieved, generates a Lookamancy/Foolamancy image on the camera screen. Now that's some speculation, since the camera is not said to contain Foolamancy, but who's to say the secret narrator is unreliable?

    2. Another problem is Thinkamancy states above 3. Who knows what the upper states can do if the GMs aren't too paranoid to do more than 3-way links with non-GMs?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 195
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:35 pm 
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    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    Shai hulud wrote:
    You're just trolling the forum with update times, aren't you?

    My thoughts exactly. Though the best part about a random early update, is that most of the Americans should be a sleep and I get to comment on page 1.

    Actually, I had gotten so used to late updates that I never even thought of checking thursday night in case of a 12 midnight eastern update. And I was busy last night.

    So, I need to check a bit more frequently.

    Now, after reading page 1, and I hope this isn't going to be ninjad on the rest of the pages:

    We are now up to *5* different "what's going on" stories.

    Now we'll hear Charlie's version of the Kingworld spell. Plus, Charlie's version of what's going on in the dungeon.

    I agree that the truth is out there, and that someone will uncover it. We don't have a Scully or Mulder, sadly.
    But asking the bracer, "Is this story true?"?

    What does the Bracer consider true? What "certain point of view" does the bracer use to determine truthiness? If people's memories can be edited, will the "wikiality" of edited truth alter what is considered truth? And who will triumph when this is all done? What word will describe what comes next?

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    It really speaks to how awful RVC's plan is that immolating himself first would improve the odds of success.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 195
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:59 pm 
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    vivalakevolution wrote:
    1.2.1 The camera is a Ace/Maggie/Isaac product added onto the toy soldier which allows recording of images which uses a very small amount of Thinkamancy from the wielder/camera (given that the golem is a mindless being) and Lookamancy contained in the camera, which allows recording of an image by that unit, if retrieved, generates a Lookamancy/Foolamancy image on the camera screen. Now that's some speculation, since the camera is not said to contain Foolamancy, but who's to say the secret narrator is unreliable?

    I think you're overthinking that camera. It's probably just a magic item that gives the holder the Scouting special, like Ace's jetpack, except Ace couldn't manage the Scouting special on his own so he needed help from a Lookamancer.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 195
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:07 pm 
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    vivalakevolution wrote:
    [...]
    1.2 Toy soldier theorising sidetrack - between Ace/Maggie/Jack (that's the combination right?) there are 4 disciplines to use. Dollamancy, Weirdomancy, Thinkamancy and Foolamancy. What if, Dollamancy creates unit based on tchotchkes, Foolamancy makes it veiled green, and Weirdomancy gives the scouting special? The key take-home message is that the wiki is probably wrong IMO about the origins of scouting special. Which leads us to..

    1.2.1 The camera is a Ace/Maggie/Isaac product added onto the toy soldier which allows recording of images which uses a very small amount of Thinkamancy from the wielder/camera (given that the golem is a mindless being) and Lookamancy contained in the camera, which allows recording of an image by that unit, if retrieved, generates a Lookamancy/Foolamancy image on the camera screen. Now that's some speculation, since the camera is not said to contain Foolamancy, but who's to say the secret narrator is unreliable?

    2. Another problem is Thinkamancy states above 3. Who knows what the upper states can do if the GMs aren't too paranoid to do more than 3-way links with non-GMs?


    Toy Soldiers, from page 43 were made with Isaac performing the link, not Maggie.
    relevant bits:
    Quote:
    Before they'd left the Magic Kingdom, Ace had been making more little green army men with Jack and Isaac. Three of those were now on threat-detection duty around Spacerock, and doing a good job at it.
    [...]
    So the army men were incredibly valuable units, but Ace couldn't make any more of them without going back to the Temple. Imparting the golems with the Scouting special required Lookamancy, which meant Isaac, since they no longer had Misty.

    Parson should know who his casters are linking with. I believe the text there. Also not sure where you're getting weirdomancy. None of those casters have been stated to cast it.

    As for the camera, true we don't know exactly what it does, but some form of image recording is strongly implied simply by its form. Isaac's adept Foolamancy was available there in that link, and it's never stated that he didn't use it.

    And I'm not sure that it's just paranoia keeping the Minds from higher stage links with non-thinkamancers. I got the impression that those were only possible with just other thinkamancers. Sure I could be wrong about that, but as far as we know ... impossibility is a possibility.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 195
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:44 pm 
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    Ozamataz Buckshank wrote:
    vivalakevolution wrote:
    1.2.1 The camera is a Ace/Maggie/Isaac product added onto the toy soldier which allows recording of images which uses a very small amount of Thinkamancy from the wielder/camera (given that the golem is a mindless being) and Lookamancy contained in the camera, which allows recording of an image by that unit, if retrieved, generates a Lookamancy/Foolamancy image on the camera screen. Now that's some speculation, since the camera is not said to contain Foolamancy, but who's to say the secret narrator is unreliable?

    I think you're overthinking that camera. It's probably just a magic item that gives the holder the Scouting special, like Ace's jetpack, except Ace couldn't manage the Scouting special on his own so he needed help from a Lookamancer.


    But overthinking is what I do best.... :lol:

    Besides, that's a great way to theorise magic, something I absolutely love doing on here, and frankly should see more of. I don't really like that to be dismissed as overthinking it. At all.

    Thing is, the camera and the toy soldier are products of different links. Sure, fine, Isaac was the link which implied he used Lookamancy as well as Thinkamancy for linking. So there were 4-5 disciplines involved. Thinkamancy to link, Foolamancy to veil, Dollamancy to create unit, Weirdomancy/Lookamancy combine to graft a scouting special. It's probably a case of the scouting special being Natural Lookamancy, and Ace is lead to see that and able to add that to the golem.

    Zathyr wrote:
    *correction about Isacc linking*


    Oops... Didn't have time to trawl. Thanks :)

    Zathyr wrote:
    Also not sure where you're getting weirdomancy. None of those casters have been stated to cast it.


    Perhaps it's Ace's Jetpack, the most likely explanation being Weirdomancy? Which would explain being Adept at Level 2,and also this involves imbibing a special to a unit which is what Weirdomancy does.

    Sure, speculation it is, but there's no reason that isn't possible. Isaac is known to do Foolamancy yes, (probably most) Thinkamancers do as we saw this update, and that's similar and not the same to Ace (possibly though personally thinking most likely) doing Weirdomancy.

    Perhaps an Ace update, depending on negotiations with Claud, the most likely candidate to be a confirmed Weirdomancy caster (ahead of Ace), might provide answers to Ace's jetpack/toy soldier/Claud's guns/Dismiss Perfect Warlord. A reveal about Weirdomancy is much needed to explain all the special giving we've seen so far, and might be upcoming.

    Besides, I still want to see my working theories of DPW being a matter of Carnied Weirdomancy allows hacking of Natural Thinkamancy for use of juice for the spell, temporarily giving the unit holding it a casting special specific to the scroll to cast the bulk that is Weirdomancy of dispelling the strings connecting Parson to Erfworld that probably manifests as the Special special.
    That, or it's Carnied Thinkamancy that allows the user to cast by creating juice without making the user have a caster special, to cast the Weirdomancy.

    Why tell you all this? Becuase I think the Carny component is only for status effects that gives juice for magic, and the Weirdomancy component allows the user to obtain instant knowledge, probably mirrored in guns. That's why guns probably don't need Carnymancy, because it's just like how an archer can tell you all the technical bits because they have the special. Weirdomancy items mimic that, but constrains that to only when holding the item.

    Zathyr wrote:
    And I'm not sure that it's just paranoia keeping the Minds from higher stage links with non-thinkamancers. I got the impression that those were only possible with just other thinkamancers. Sure I could be wrong about that, but as far as we know ... impossibility is a possibility.


    Eh, we'll see. GM updates I do love for Thinkamancy insights. Would Isaac ever tell Parson if he asked? Probably not.

    ---

    The fact we never got to know how Charlie reprogrammed the golem still bugs me. 'Dish Thinkamacy hacking of a mindless unit? Could Charlie project into a mindless unit quite like the Maggieonette/Bunnydoll?

    ---

    Joke entry below
    Spoiler: show
    With all this golem projection via string talk, is Steven Universe a Thinkamancer? But I digress. Where do one post your own character builds?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 195
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:15 pm 
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    vivalakevolution wrote:
    Perhaps it's Ace's Jetpack, the most likely explanation being Weirdomancy? Which would explain being Adept at Level 2,and also this involves imbibing a special to a unit which is what Weirdomancy does.

    Ace's Jetpack doesn't make units able to fly under their own power like the Transylvitians. It isn't even directly mentally controlled, it's controlled by the balance of the user's back. It makes units have the flight special in the same way the Mathamancy Bracer makes Parson a Mathamancer.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 195
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:20 pm 
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    There is absolutely no evidence that Weirdomancy has ever been used in any of the links we've seen in the story. Nor do I see any reason to suspect that Rob is hiding some massive secret like that.

    The little green army men were made with Dollamancy (because they are golems), and Foolamancy (because they are stealthy; Ace comments on how hard they are to see), and Lookamancy (for the Scouting special, per the text).

    There is nothing that says a Dollamancer and a Lookamancer working together need a third discipline to put Scouting on a golem. Why can't they just do it themselves? It's the obvious answer.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 195
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:55 pm 
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    greycat wrote:
    There is absolutely no evidence that Weirdomancy has ever been used in any of the links we've seen in the story. Nor do I see any reason to suspect that Rob is hiding some massive secret like that.

    You mean no evidence like this?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 195
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:39 pm 
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    Lipkin wrote:
    greycat wrote:
    There is absolutely no evidence that Weirdomancy has ever been used in any of the links we've seen in the story. Nor do I see any reason to suspect that Rob is hiding some massive secret like that.

    You mean no evidence like this?


    I said "links we've seen". We never saw the link that created the scroll of GTFO. It was created off-camera.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 195
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:36 pm 
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    ManaCaster wrote:
    Ace's Jetpack doesn't make units able to fly under their own power like the Transylvitians. It isn't even directly mentally controlled, it's controlled by the balance of the user's back. It makes units have the flight special in the same way the Mathamancy Bracer makes Parson a Mathamancer.


    You're basing that conjecture on what exactly?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 195
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:16 pm 
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    ManaCaster wrote:
    Ace's Jetpack doesn't make units able to fly under their own power like the Transylvitians. It isn't even directly mentally controlled, it's controlled by the balance of the user's back. It makes units have the flight special in the same way the Mathamancy Bracer makes Parson a Mathamancer.

    I second OneHugeTuck's question: why do you think so? The only description I can find is here: "Ace: So, the armor plate will let you fly at will, Sire." He does not provide any instructions on how to use it and Slately is able to do so immediately, without any training. I'm fairly confident that only Parson learns the way Earthlings do -- everyone else in Erfworld either have the requisite special or they do not.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 195
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:06 pm 
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    OneHugeTuck wrote:
    ManaCaster wrote:
    Ace's Jetpack doesn't make units able to fly under their own power like the Transylvitians. It isn't even directly mentally controlled, it's controlled by the balance of the user's back. It makes units have the flight special in the same way the Mathamancy Bracer makes Parson a Mathamancer.


    You're basing that conjecture on what exactly?

    https://wiki.erfworld.com/Hvs.tCF_76

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 195
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:26 pm 
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    vivalakevolution wrote:
    The fact we never got to know how Charlie reprogrammed the golem still bugs me. 'Dish Thinkamacy hacking of a mindless unit? Could Charlie project into a mindless unit quite like the Maggieonette/Bunnydoll?


    The army man that came back with a grenade? I'm not sure it needed to be reprogrammed. AFAIK, it was sent to go, look around, and come back. It did, only with a grenade instead of the camera. Just a little shell game with the accessories - any carnymancer could probably do that without even spending juice.

    As far as what Charlie can do to mindless golems/dolls with that dish, I think he'd be more worried about what the great minds could do with his own golems if he thought that kind of thing were possible. Those dolls that actually have some cognition thanks to a shared thinkamancy string or somesuch ... well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 195
     Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:18 pm 
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