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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 22
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:48 pm 
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Just gonna toss in my two cents here, but I have this feeling like it's gonna be Tramennis.

For one thing, he's tactically clever, if not brilliant; he's a warlord, he's quite the philosopher-prince, and he's within range. I think that, given that Jillian has specifically stated that she doesn't want to turn Wanda, Jack, or Ossomer, the only other viable candidates are pretty much Tramennis and Ansom. I don't think anyone else is important enough (plot-wise), and Slately is (as has been mentioned) most likely unturnable.

My reasoning FOR Tramennis and against Ansom is twofold. I don't know that we have any reason to think that Ansom could be turned, or that he would stay alive after he turned. Also, Ansom is in a separate hex. I think that being able to turn a high-level, high-loyalty Warlord from another hex is a really high-powered ability, especially for a Turnamancer who has already put out a lot of Juice this turn.

On the other hand, being able to turn a lower-level Warlord who is already allied with your side seems a lot less gamebreaking crazy.

Just a thuoght.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 22
     Post Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:00 am 
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    Dark Arbiter wrote:
    Just gonna toss in my two cents here, but I have this feeling like it's gonna be Tramennis... ...On the other hand, being able to turn a lower-level Warlord who is already allied with your side seems a lot less gamebreaking crazy.

    Just a thuoght.


    What is the motive?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 22
     Post Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:44 am 
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    pSycHOtic chICkeN wrote:
    Dark Arbiter wrote:
    Just gonna toss in my two cents here, but I have this feeling like it's gonna be Tramennis... ...On the other hand, being able to turn a lower-level Warlord who is already allied with your side seems a lot less gamebreaking crazy.

    Just a thuoght.


    What is the motive?


    Exactly. What would she have to gain from turning the sole heir of Jetstone? She'd certainly make an enemy of them, and I doubt Trans would be happy about it as well.

    It would be a DUMB move, and as far as we know, the two have had no interactions before, so there should be no connection between the two to make her pick him over a lover like Ansom or Wanda.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 22
     Post Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:54 am 
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    As we all know, *diamonds* are a girls best friend. So obviously Jillian wants to turn Sizemore, so she can hire a thinkmancer for a think-dirt-turn linkup, and turn over dirt to make loads of cash finding gems and quadrupling farm production. (Boosting crops produced per turn)

    She will then use shmuckers to hire up all the casters in magic kingdom, and use them to conquer everything.

    The End.

    ;-)

    PS: sorry everybody, the predictomancer lied, knowing in future Jill would bribe her as reward (with diamonds of course).

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 22
     Post Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:20 am 
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    Why does she say "none" twice?

    She says "None. Hold, chief. None. I'm finally sure who I came here for."

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 22
     Post Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:30 am 
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    Oh, that's easy.

    A double negation makes an affirmative, which means she came here for some or all of them.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 22
     Post Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:40 am 
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    Aquillion wrote:
    Why does she say "none" twice?

    She says "None. Hold, chief. None. I'm finally sure who I came here for."


    Just a speech mannerism. She was in the middle of a conversation, stopped that to pass an order along to an underling, then went back to the conversation picking up with how she left off.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 22
     Post Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:08 pm 
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    Jillian is going to capture Wanda for Faq, starting with something like: "Join me or die!"

    It was even forshadowed in the text update that was all about Duncan Scone. Jillian captured him in a daring and innovative maneuver. Also, his hippiemancy headpiece tells him the two women will never actually fight.

    The payoff is too great to not try for it! Jillian would get Wanda and Ansom, both. It would also instantly make Faq a major power allied with Jetstone and ready to flatten Stanley. It also makes good plot sense, because it would give the Hamster a good opponent again. And all because Stanley send Ansom instead of Hamster into the field.

    It must happen this way! Too many pieces fit too well. Of course saying so probably jinxes it...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 22
     Post Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:17 pm 
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    OneHugeTuck wrote:
    2. Somebody somewhere (basically) said that Erfworld sucked because KINGWORLD was a gamebreaker, and that ERFworld has 100 gamebreakers. My response is that if there are 100 gamebreakers, they really aren't game breakers. That's part of the game.

    I agree!

    Lots of good games are structured for dramatic moves. In the case of an and Erf-like game, the narrative baseline is armies slugging away at each other, so big acts of magic look, well, big. Real game balance is different is based on making sure players' initial access to options is equivalet, accumulated power/points/mojo can't disappear too quickly, and good strategy is (at least) a big advantage most of the time. The gap between the mathematics involved in game balance and the cultural/emotional/artistic perception of the limitations of medieval-esque armies is an opportunity to shock, amaze, and titillate. I like!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 22
     Post Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:08 pm 
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    I guess I am just too convinced by Jillian's rejection of turning Wanda, Ossomer, or Jack. It doesn't seem like something she would do, or like something Rob would write in - that she says no to the idea and then immediately does it.

    The motivation for grabbing Tramennis is dependent on a rules thing we don't actually know about. The only way it would make sense to turn him (beyond his general being a good Warlord) would be if he would remain the Heir Designate of Jetstone. (I realize this is a big logic jump)

    If that's true though, Jillian could turn Tramennis, get him out of the main battle, and then let Wanda & Co. take down the Jetstone army and croak Slately. Tramennis would then either flip to his own side or all of the remaining Jetstone troops would join Faq - thereby massively increasing Faq's military strength, and letting Wanda have her way.

    Again, I realize this is almost baseless conjecture, but I just don't think she would turn Wanda, etc. after explicitly saying that she didn't want them.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 22
     Post Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:35 pm 
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    Dark Arbiter wrote:
    I guess I am just too convinced by Jillian's rejection of turning Wanda, Ossomer, or Jack. It doesn't seem like something she would do, or like something Rob would write in - that she says no to the idea and then immediately does it.

    Yes, that is the one gaping hole in my theory, but there still is a slim chance that Jillian is just referring to whom the turnamancer should target her juice. Maybe Jillian expects Wanda to submit to her without magical intervention.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 22
     Post Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:24 pm 
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    I'm posting this comment because I think it's a topic that has been widely over-looked in light of such groundbreaking progressions in the battle... Wanda's feelings. Rereading the comic, I can't help but feel horribly sorry for Wanda. She asked Jillian to prove her love/loyalty to Wanda. Instead, she betrayed her again.

    After observing Wanda's past romantic dilemmas I can't help but worry about her mental and emotional state. How many more utter rejections can Wanda take before she crumbles like a cookie?

    Am I alone in this compassion for Wanda? She's always been one of my favorite Erfworlders...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 22
     Post Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:46 pm 
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    Perhaps she can Decrypt her pride/broken heart.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 22
     Post Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:23 pm 
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    Unknownid wrote:
    Am I alone in this compassion for Wanda? She's always been one of my favorite Erfworlders...



    I believe it is core to this story - after all, love is a battlefield and there is always a high casualty count....

    big question - if not Wanda to turn, then who? Ansom doesn't make sense - being decrypted, turn wanda and get them both....

    Parsons seems most likely - given that Charlie has some way of getting them to GK

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 22
     Post Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:41 pm 
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    Goshen wrote:
    Jillian is going to capture Wanda for Faq, starting with something like: "Join me or die!"

    It was even forshadowed in the text update that was all about Duncan Scone. Jillian captured him in a daring and innovative maneuver. Also, his hippiemancy headpiece tells him the two women will never actually fight.


    No, it gave him a divide by zero error.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 22
     Post Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:16 pm 
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    Flyer wrote:
    Unknownid wrote:
    Am I alone in this compassion for Wanda? She's always been one of my favorite Erfworlders...



    I believe it is core to this story - after all, love is a battlefield and there is always a high casualty count....

    big question - if not Wanda to turn, then who? Ansom doesn't make sense - being decrypted, turn wanda and get them both....

    Parsons seems most likely - given that Charlie has some way of getting them to GK


    Parson isn't there. He's in GK. She specifically states she came THERE for someone. Which indicates it's someone there.

    Parson also didn't come to her attention at any point, so she wouldn't "now know" she's there for him. Because she had no reason to think of him.

    Additionally, I do not believe Turnamancers would be able to do standard turnamancy to turn units in an entirely different city, either. If that was the case, it'd be smart to just enter the battlespace of a rival, turn their warlords in their capitol, then retreat while hilarity ensures until they run out of people to promote to warlord.

    Parson just doesn't fit.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 22
     Post Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:21 pm 
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    Unknownid wrote:
    I'm posting this comment because I think it's a topic that has been widely over-looked in light of such groundbreaking progressions in the battle... Wanda's feelings. Rereading the comic, I can't help but feel horribly sorry for Wanda. She asked Jillian to prove her love/loyalty to Wanda. Instead, she betrayed her again.

    After observing Wanda's past romantic dilemmas I can't help but worry about her mental and emotional state. How many more utter rejections can Wanda take before she crumbles like a cookie?

    Am I alone in this compassion for Wanda? She's always been one of my favorite Erfworlders...

    Well said.

    Personally, I don't have any compassion for Wanda, but she is definitely one of my favorite characters.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 22
     Post Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:34 am 
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    People who complain about game-breakers seem to want a story full of Chessmasters who cunningly manipulate and outmaneuver one another. But it's a fantasy world with a flexible magic system -- there are so many possibilities.

    I think there would be fewer complaints if the rules for the magic system were laid out, or even some reasonably sized list of 'sample' spells (effect, cost, juice storage rules, etc.) so we can see that a new spell is merely the product of careful planning and not a game breaker. Heck something like this could even work within the comic -- Parson should eventually get tired of being blindsided by spells/other mechanics and want to understand how they work.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 22
     Post Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:07 am 
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    valce wrote:
    I think there would be fewer complaints if the rules for the magic system were laid out, or even some reasonably sized list of 'sample' spells (effect, cost, juice storage rules, etc.) so we can see that a new spell is merely the product of careful planning and not a game breaker. Heck something like this could even work within the comic -- Parson should eventually get tired of being blindsided by spells/other mechanics and want to understand how they work.


    I think at this point we know that a linked-up caster can be insanely powerful. The limits of what a trimancer linkup can do is limited only by the imagination of the casters and whoever's giving them commands. If you want to know rules, I'm pretty sure you can't go wrong with this one - if you can put together an idea for a powerful spell, and justify why a certain pair of casters have the right specialties to do it, it's probably possible. Anything short of ending entire sides with a spell is probably fair game.

    Heck - Erfworlders *themselves* don't necessarily know the rules of magic and how they work. Remember Sizemore mentioning all the "debates" about whether Wanda is "extending Croakamancy to the life axis" or whatnot? If there's concrete rules defining what magic can and cannot do, nobody in-story knows them. Maybe there aren't.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 22
     Post Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:21 am 
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    valce wrote:
    People who complain about game-breakers seem to want a story full of Chessmasters who cunningly manipulate and outmaneuver one another. But it's a fantasy world with a flexible magic system -- there are so many possibilities.


    It seems that the chessmasters -are- cunningly outmaneuvering one another.

    ftl wrote:
    I think at this point we know that a linked-up caster can be insanely powerful. The limits of what a trimancer linkup can do is limited only by the imagination of the casters and whoever's giving them commands.



    Sure, they're insanely powerful. And while some people complain about that, if a ruler is willing to risk his casters, then s/he gets the rewards of sucess, OR the costs of failure.

    Everyone -can-. Most won't, for a variety of reasons.

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