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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 19
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:34 pm 
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SteveMB wrote:
BCCroaker wrote:
Jillian has her sword ready, and after Wanda's words, I'll take a wild guess she's going to use it to try to knock the pliers out of Wanda's hand.

It looked to me like she reached for her sword after Wanda brandished the Arkenpliers in her general direction -- Wanda apparently meant it simply as an emphatic gesture, but simple reflex would lead an experienced warlord to get ready to defend herself.

Yes, that would be the reason she drew, but Wanda has just told her the reason she won't Join Faq is that her primary loyalty is to the pliers and Jillian has been shown to be a person who lashes out at at things that don't fit in her plans. Now, the pliers could fall to the ground with Wanda desperately searching for them leading to Titans know what. Or, maybe, Jillians sword shatters on the pliers or even the attempted blow does nothing. But but both sides will have seen the leaders fighting and a chaotic battle breaks out with plans and tactics forgotten. GK still has the numbers, but a messy battle is Jillian's kind of war.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 19
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:00 pm 
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    I wonder if a turnamancer manning the cities air defenses could have an interesting effect. ^^
    Sure you likely couldnt turn the decrypted (likely) but maybe you could turn their mounts. xD ~Imagines dragons getting blasted by a beam that causes their eyes to swirl before bucking & eating riders and attacking former allies~

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 19
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:05 pm 
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    Godsire wrote:
    Jillian is confused now :)

    Good stuff.. Wanda seems confident still!

    Still no fighting though, I wish we we're at the fighting part already !

    Next comic won't be fighting either I guess, still talks.


    Jillians blade is out of the scabbard.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 19
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:11 pm 
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    Yes, Rob, YES! This is exactly what I wanted to - and thought would - happen! Amazing page.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 19
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:25 pm 
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    This raises interesting questions. Is Wanda being compelled by the pliers themselves, or just a prophecy concerning the arkentools?

    If the tools can compel their owners, this might cast other characters' actions in a new light - for instance Stanley's quest for the arkentools might not just be Wanda's manipulation - the hammer might be actively seeking a reunion. Maybe the hammer sensed that Wanda was destined to attune to the pliers, which would explain the great deal of trust Stanley placed in her - if the highest recommendation for a unit was that she betrayed her side to come and work for me, I wouldn't trust her as far as I could throw her. It might also explain Charlie's hesitation at tBfGK - he could have destroyed GK and captured Parson, but instead put his archons on standby when Parson offered the possibility of capturing the (at the time un-attuned) pliers. He could have allied with TV and Jillian and killed the fleeing Stanley, but decided to take his services out of Don's price range. Maybe the dish itself was viscerally opposed to croaking an attuned hammer-wielder and a yet-to-attune pliers-wielder. And maybe everything he's done for Jillian is just an attempt to get the pliers-wielder on his side.

    Also, perhaps Jack is destined to attune to the dish, or to tool #4, which would explain his reluctance to turn at the mountain pass.


    Last edited by splintermute on Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 19
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:27 pm 
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    Lothmar wrote:
    I wonder if a turnamancer manning the cities air defenses could have an interesting effect. ^^
    Sure you likely couldnt turn the decrypted (likely) but maybe you could turn their mounts. xD ~Imagines dragons getting blasted by a beam that causes their eyes to swirl before bucking & eating riders and attacking former allies~


    why would dragons be turnable and not decrypted?
    they are tamed through arkenhammer.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 19
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:50 pm 
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    And the decrypted on their backs are strapped down in the saddles, so bucking won't help. And at that point a single sword blow is all it takes...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 19
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:00 pm 
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    Sweet, finally we get to see why Wanda even bothers with Stanley. Bad things are likely to follow, But if I could just comment on something peripherally related to this bit of information...

    We do not have any evidence that Charlie's forces are in Unaroyal. It was never mentioned in the comics or the summer updates. All we know is that Charlie has given some money to Jillian and some advice. Any other plan between them hasn't been mentioned yet. It’s much more likely that Charlie just wants Jill to win, but contributing forces directly strikes me as not his style. He wouldn't go on a limb just for Jill.

    What we know is that he's undermining Gobwin Knob's forces by stopping the city from popping any gobwins.

    The only thing I can think of is that he has some of his forces veiled in GK's area killing or turning all the gobwins, so later they can sack the city. If Charlie wants to act soon and be proactive about stopping GK, then sacking the city while their whole army is at Unaroyal seems way smarter then preventing Unaroyal from falling by bolstering Jill's army. He could do both, but then he'd either be commiting to much and leaving himself vulnerable or he'd lessen his chances of sucessfully sacking GK. If Charlie was powerful enough to do both without a sweat, then why didn't he just sack GK himself?

    So I think that Jill's likely to be croaked based on the existing evidence thats been reveled up to now. I just don't see Charlie saving Jill from the fight if he was also undermining GK.

    The counter arguement is that he just doesn't see GK as a threat, yet, but he's watching them closely. Maybe trying to take them down with Cold War Tactics. (undermine GK, bolster Jill. Screw with Parsons head) But why did he lose his composure when talking with Jill? That doesn't seem like something he would do if he was in control of this situation.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 19
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:03 pm 
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    first time posting

    i don't know if this has already been discussed, but doesn't Parson still owe some mathamancy calculations to Charlie? Hasn't Wanda been running everything by Parson? How will this play into Jillian's and Charlie's plans?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 19
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:55 pm 
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    Fascinating page. Keeps the suspense of the current situation while opening up the wider plot possibilities.
    Wanda is now fully revealed as a true-believer and a fanatic, if not a raving nutjob. The difference between her and Stanley is that he wants to rule the world, and she wants to change it. At some point that will bring them into conflict.

    Charlie must be their next major target, to either join them or be deemed 'unworthy' of his tool. If he defies them then the race will be on to find the 4th Tool as an equalizer. Charlie; with his intel network; would have an advantage in the quest to find it, but does he have the forces to get to it first? These major themes make the battle for Jetstone seem like small beer.

    On the immediate situation, Jillian's hopes of being reunited on her own terms with those she cares for are now completely smashed. Does she want to be reunited with Wanda, Ansom and Jack enough to align with Wanda? Or was it a distraction that has been removed and she will now do what her backers want with complete absence of ruth? I'm surprised that Jillian brought the Turnamancer, I thought she would be too valuable in speeding up heir production. Jillian appears to really be pursuing her own agenda rather than that of her backers, Don King will not be pleased.

    My feeling is still that we won't see a clear-cut victory. I continue to believe that if Wanda uses force against Jillian it will rebound on her. In the last text update Ossomer made it clear that defeating Faq would take a heavy toll on GKs forces, and their only option for victory would be to destroy the citadel and disband Jetstone. He's assuming that they have Wanda stacked as force multiplier, but if Jillian engages and incapacitates her in single combat, would that weaken GK enough? In that case it might only take a small force multiplier from Charlie to tip the balance and not the major force that's been speculated on.

    The outcome of the face to face between Jillian and Wanda will determine the outcome - Love is, indeed, the Battlefield.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 19
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:02 pm 
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    haviel wrote:
    We do not have any evidence that Charlie's forces are in spacerock. It was never mentioned in the comics or the summer updates. All we know is that Charlie has given some money to Jillian and some advice. Any other plan between them hasn't been mentioned yet. It’s much more likely that Charlie just wants Jill to win, but contributing forces directly strikes me as not his style. He wouldn't go on a limb just for Jill.

    He's not going out on a limb for Jillian... Saving JETSTONE is beneficial to him
    First, he can eliminate Wanda and put an end to Stanley's plans for world conquest, as wel as making it so that the RCC can slowly chip away at his power until his capitol is more vulnarable. And second, by saving Slately he can prove without a shadow of a doubt where he stands on toolism and prove to all the royals that he is trust worthy... even Slately would have to admit this or look like a complete fool. third, it allows him to show case just how big of a difference his forces can make in a battle and thus works well as good advertising for his merc business

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    The only thing I can think of is that he has some of his forces veiled in GK's area killing or turning all the gobwins, so later they can sack the city. If Charlie wants to act soon and be proactive about stopping GK, then sacking the city while their whole army is at spacerock seems way smarter then preventing jetstone from falling by bolstering Jill's army. He could do both, but then he'd either be commiting to much and leaving himself vulnerable or he'd lessen his chances of sucessfully sacking GK. If Charlie was powerful enough to do both without a sweat, then why didn't he just sack GK himself?


    As i mentioned in the last thread, the problem with attacking GK would be the simple fact that charlie has no idea what GK's plans were... he had no idea if they would attack by land leaving the dwagons behind, or if they would attack by air... he has no idea what kind of arial defenses GK has aside from the dwagons. And while he may have a large fleet, i have doubts as to how many he could actually dedicate to a personal fight where he doesn't stand to earn money to pay upkeep (he doesn't know how much is in the GK tresurey and worth sacking... parson last told him funds were running low); if we were to assume most of the dwagons were left behind we would have to ask if Charlie felt his archons could handle GK on their own (as charlie would be better to assume the dwagons were there)... part of the downside to not having warlords or chief warlords of his own is the fact that his archons might suffer when it comes to multipliers while GK gets a huge boost from stanley and the hammers... Furtharmore, Charlie has been having trouble just scouting through GK territory; GK has been using Archons to scout the surrounding areas and as such it would be nearly impossible for him near the GK capitol without being spotted.

    singingbard wrote:
    i don't know if this has already been discussed, but doesn't Parson still owe some mathamancy calculations to Charlie? Hasn't Wanda been running everything by Parson? How will this play into Jillian's and Charlie's plans?

    They probably won't... one thing Charlie and Jillian has been careful about is keeping Charlie's involvement a secret... If charlie were to call up Parson and ask for any calculations that might even be remotely related to the upcoming fight, then parson and GK would KNOW that Charlie was up to something

    splintermute wrote:
    f the tools can compel their owners, this might cast other characters' actions in a new light - for instance Stanley's quest for the arkentools might not just be Wanda's manipulation - the hammer might be actively seeking a reunion. Maybe the hammer sensed that Wanda was destined to attune to the pliers, which would explain the great deal of trust Stanley placed in her - if the highest recommendation for a unit was that she betrayed her side to come and work for me, I wouldn't trust her as far as I could throw her. It might also explain Charlie's hesitation at tBfGK - he could have destroyed GK and captured Parson, but instead put his archons on standby when Parson offered the possibility of capturing the (at the time un-attuned) pliers. He could have allied with TV and Jillian and killed the fleeing Stanley, but decided to take his services out of Don's price range. Maybe the dish itself was viscerally opposed to croaking an attuned hammer-wielder and a yet-to-attune pliers-wielder. And maybe everything he's done for Jillian is just an attempt to get the pliers-wielder on his side.

    I don't think Charlie cared about the pliers... Parson thought he did and made the offer, but Charlie's choice to back down was not influenced by the offer... Charlie backed down for no other reason than to watch a really great show. One thing you have to keep in mind is the fact that if charlie really did want get the pliers, then he would not have made that contract with Ansom and screwed Parson over... he would have just let Ansom get croaked, let Parson claim the pliers, and then taken the garrison with his forces next turn... no Charlie's only goal at GK was Parson and the mathamancy bracelet; he had great use for both of them... he did not care for the pliers; unless he or one of his units attunes to them, the pliers aren't really worth much to him in the long run (he probably could get a very good price for them, but that only helps him in the short term)

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    Last edited by MonteCristo on Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 19
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:21 pm 
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    Interesting. So Wanda does believe in the Will of the Titans/Reunification of the Arkentools... I was convinced that she was just looking out for number 1 at this point...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 19
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:36 pm 
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    So, with Wanda unturnable, have Vanna concentrate on Ossomer? If she can turn units from afar, perhaps a blast of switchy-sidey-goodness will result in Wanda getting attacked from behind?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 19
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:38 pm 
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    splintermute wrote:
    This raises interesting questions. Is Wanda being compelled by the pliers themselves, or just a prophecy concerning the arkentools?



    I don't think Wanda is compelled at all. I think she's just a "believer" in fate. Given that a lot of Erfworlders seem to have no purpose to their lives other than to be ordered about by Overlords until they croak, I think Wanda has given herself a purpose by choosing to follow fate. It's not the same thing as having a religion or a God, but it's kinda close.

    She's the first believer in Toolism. Not the "Royalty is obsolete" version, but the version that says her predictions are the will of the Titans, and she's going to follow the Titan's will. All she needs is some stone tablets with her predictions written on them, and she's all set.... ;)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 19
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:49 pm 
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    Lothmar wrote:
    I wonder if a turnamancer manning the cities air defenses could have an interesting effect. ^^
    Sure you likely couldnt turn the decrypted (likely) but maybe you could turn their mounts. xD ~Imagines dragons getting blasted by a beam that causes their eyes to swirl before bucking & eating riders and attacking former allies~


    You would think a Turnamancer would have SOME kind of ability to effect combat.

    But honestly, I think the primary reason she brought Vanna (and grats to the people who called it) was to turn Wanda if needed.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 19
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:05 pm 
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    Push come to shove:
    Jillian chose Ansom over Wanda.
    Wanda chose power over Jillian.
    Fair's fair.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 19
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:16 pm 
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    StClair wrote:
    Push come to shove:
    Jillian chose Ansom over Wanda.
    Wanda chose power over Jillian.
    Fair's fair.


    Well, Wanda's choosing Fate over Jillian... or so she believes.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 19
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:31 pm 
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    gameboy1234 wrote:
    I don't think Wanda is compelled at all. I think she's just a "believer" in fate


    It seems likely that her statement "[Erfworld] wished for you" reflects a belief that Parson has a major part in that fate. That's another explanation (besides recognizing his competence) for why she has so much respect for him, and another reason for her to stay on the same side he's on.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 19
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:42 pm 
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    Can I just say that I LOVE Jillian's expressions in this comic?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 19
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:33 pm 
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    Tiger wrote:
    Can I just say that I LOVE Jillian's expressions in this comic?


    Yes, you may say so. I will say it as well for both her and Wanda.

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