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 Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 325
 Post Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 5:37 am 
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I noticed that Ben complains about his knees and losing his wind as he climbs the stairs. I thought only Parson got tired from moving around a city?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 325
     Post Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 5:44 am 
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    Infidel wrote:
    Thecommander236 wrote:
    Syrup Roast wrote:
    Why on earth are there stitches going up the top of Bill's head. Is that what it looks like when you get a lobotomy?


    Not always. Lobotomies would be performed in one of two ways. The skull would be cut off and part of the brain removed. Then the skull would be sown back on like in Silences of the Lamb or Get Out if your watched those movies. (Also if you search lobotomy patient, you get a nasty picture of a very confused and damaged man who has some very obvious head scars. Warning, it's gross.) However, lobotomies were also done like the ancient Egyptians removed the brain for the embalming process. Basically, they stuck a giant needle up your nose and just kind of randomly pulled a piece of your brain out. Yes, it's disgusting. They were so naive back then.


    That wasn't about being naive. It was part of the embalming process. Almost all the organs needed to go so they could pack the body cavity with salt to draw out all the moisture from the corpse. If the brain were left inside the embalmers wouldn't be able to draw out enough moisture from the skull to prevent rotting.

    So Naive no. They were just religious. Life after Death was never a scientifically valid option once you account for traditional burial/cremation practices or any other destruction of the brain at death or in life. But religion hand waves all that away.

    ---

    I like that Maggienette has the goggles. Hopefully her signamancy will become progressively steampunk.Image
    Image

    I dunno, but gears and cogs seem as dollamancy to me as much as stitches.
    Just Glue Some Gears on It and Call It Steampunk...

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TFCuE5rHbPA

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 325
     Post Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 6:26 am 
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    MostTornBrain wrote:
    Jade wrote:
    Something I've noticed is that Maggionette seems to have "human" hands, not the same hands as the other Dolls, which have visible joints/parts. She also appears to have a skin tone similar to Maggie's now. From this comic page you can see her old hands and a more grayish colored skin.


    I was just going to point out the same thing. It looks like Bill has taken on the signamancy of a doll and Maggionette has taken on the signamancy of a person, most-likely because she took control of some of Bill's strings while jumping through his head in thought-space.

    Now I wonder what Bill’s hands would look like were those gloves to be removed...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 325
     Post Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 8:38 am 
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    Lipkin wrote:
    When Parson was trapped by the inferno in Book 2, he pitched to Charlie that he could turn barbarian, claim the city, and put out the fire that way. Charlie pointed out that Parson would have to croak all the Dwagons to do that.


    In that case, no, the problem would be that the Dwagons would still have a side.
    So is not the barbarian units that stop Parson in that scenario, is that the city still counts as "contested between multiple sides", Himself wanting to claim, and the Dwagons.

    With a group of barbarians in an empty town, I would assume the first one to claim would get it XD

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 325
     Post Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 8:58 am 
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    kaylasdad99 wrote:
    Infidel wrote:
    Image

    I dunno, but gears and cogs seem as dollamancy to me as much as stitches.
    Just Glue Some Gears on It and Call It Steampunk...

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TFCuE5rHbPA


    Relevant links are Relevant. Also, funny. Thanks for the link. In this case though I think it works. Erfworld is signamancy over function. Also, I chose that dress because I thought the style would fit Magienette even without the gears and it popped up on a quick "steampunk dress" search. And I like that it is a two part dress where the top can come off in a warm room. The random gears did make me double think it though.

    But yea, "Real Steampunk" dresses don't generally have random gears on them for no reason. An Erfworld doll might well have random gears though...

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    Last edited by Infidel on Sun May 27, 2018 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 325
     Post Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 9:02 am 
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    udat wrote:
    I noticed that Ben complains about his knees and losing his wind as he climbs the stairs. I thought only Parson got tired from moving around a city?


    Ben has probably walked more this turn than he has in the last hundred combined, his Signamancy says "old and sedate" - so he complains about walking

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 325
     Post Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 2:19 pm 
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    I'm really interested in what sort of deal TV might be able to negotiate with CC/Shirley, particularly with Charlie rather out of the loop. Benjamin seems like the type to be shrewd negotiator, even if the tutelaries are something of an alien species to him. I really feel like it's his time to shine, what with him being the only experienced TV unit not dead, abroad, or undergoing a personal crisis.

    Charlie's opening demands were pretty harsh, reversing the unilateral CC-TV non-aggression pact in CC's favor as well as demanding the return of CC and FAQ assets (cash/guns and territory respectively) to the respective parties. Charlie also demanded that Vanna, Vinnie, and Sky be ordered to turn to CC. The bodies of RVC, Don King, and Bunnie were also supposed to be destroyed or turned over to CC (eg not decrypted), which would have been a personal blow to Caesar. Harsh, but those were the opening terms of the negotiations.

    CC's position has deteriorated since. Parson is now known to have "survived" his unsummoning, Bill seems to have been lobotomized, Shirley is aware that Charlie has been "stealing" from the source, and Shirley has disconnected Charlie from what remains of his powered tower in her resulting panic.

    So... what the hell sort of deal would CC/Shirley negotiate with TV right now? Shirley's the only reason Caesar wasn't executed outright, out of concern for Vanna, Vanna's "child" the unpopped TV heir, and the formerly non-lobotomized Bill. Any threat to execute Caesar and end TV would probably be a bluff, and if TV finds this out then Shirley's negotiating position gets a lot weaker. The turned dolls are also a limited threat, between the gun armed TV warladies and Huehue's apparent ability to control the tower (eg his own body).

    Huehue's also got some leverage over Shirley that I don't think has been discussed directly. Huehue has implied that Charlie's "theft" of juice would get all the other temples mad at him. Shirley doesn't disagree so much as change the subject. I can't claim any particular knowledge about what the threat to Charlie from that corner might be but it sounds like we're talking about a collective action by a bunch of roughly socially equal entities, a la "law" enforcement in the magic kingdom. Somebody levelheaded and less emotionally involved in current inter-tutelary accusations and negotiations (Benny) could point out that, while a hostile Huehue could make Shirley's job of explaining Charlie's "theft" much harder, a friendly and sympathetic Huehue could make her job a lot easier.

    At the end of the day it seems to me like Shirley just needs a deal where the "bad guys" (TV and GK) get punished and the "good guys" in danger (Charlie, CC, Vanna, TV's heir, Bill?) are safe. Someone just needs to sell her on a plan that appears to do that.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 325
     Post Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 5:51 pm 
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    Infidel wrote:
    kaylasdad99 wrote:
    Infidel wrote:
    Image

    I dunno, but gears and cogs seem as dollamancy to me as much as stitches.
    Just Glue Some Gears on It and Call It Steampunk...

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TFCuE5rHbPA


    Relevant links are Relevant. Also, funny. Thanks for the link. In this case though I think it works. Erfworld is signamancy over function. Also, I chose that dress because I thought the style would fit Magienette even without the gears and it popped up on a quick "steampunk dress" search. And I like that it is a two part dress where the top can come off in a warm room. The random gears did make me double think it though.


    Nah, you chose well. Any other dress would NOT have set me to thinking about that link. :mrgreen:

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 325
     Post Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 5:58 pm 
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    DukeofTuring wrote:
    I'm really interested in what sort of deal TV might be able to negotiate with CC/Shirley, particularly with Charlie rather out of the loop. Benjamin seems like the type to be shrewd negotiator, even if the tutelaries are something of an alien species to him. I really feel like it's his time to shine, what with him being the only experienced TV unit not dead, abroad, or undergoing a personal crisis.

    [...]

    Huehue's also got some leverage over Shirley that I don't think has been discussed directly. Huehue has implied that Charlie's "theft" of juice would get all the other temples mad at him. Shirley doesn't disagree so much as change the subject. I can't claim any particular knowledge about what the threat to Charlie from that corner might be but it sounds like we're talking about a collective action by a bunch of roughly socially equal entities, a la "law" enforcement in the magic kingdom. Somebody levelheaded and less emotionally involved in current inter-tutelary accusations and negotiations (Benny) could point out that, while a hostile Huehue could make Shirley's job of explaining Charlie's "theft" much harder, a friendly and sympathetic Huehue could make her job a lot easier.

    At the end of the day it seems to me like Shirley just needs a deal where the "bad guys" (TV and GK) get punished and the "good guys" in danger (Charlie, CC, Vanna, TV's heir, Bill?) are safe. Someone just needs to sell her on a plan that appears to do that.

    Such a deal would be volatile, suspicious, and a hoot to watch. (Bold emphasis is mine.)

    Folks have wondered at the possibility of GK and CC teaming up properly. I doubt this could totally seal the deal... but maybe it could start one.

    Plus, I agree that Benjamin can use more of a role. His Stupidworld counterpart helped bridge a war; a diplomatic Benjamin ought to happen as often as possible.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 325
     Post Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 9:30 pm 
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    Brother Mirtillo wrote:
    DukeofTuring wrote:
    I'm really interested in what sort of deal TV might be able to negotiate with CC/Shirley, particularly with Charlie rather out of the loop. Benjamin seems like the type to be shrewd negotiator, even if the tutelaries are something of an alien species to him. I really feel like it's his time to shine, what with him being the only experienced TV unit not dead, abroad, or undergoing a personal crisis.

    [...]

    Huehue's also got some leverage over Shirley that I don't think has been discussed directly. Huehue has implied that Charlie's "theft" of juice would get all the other temples mad at him. Shirley doesn't disagree so much as change the subject. I can't claim any particular knowledge about what the threat to Charlie from that corner might be but it sounds like we're talking about a collective action by a bunch of roughly socially equal entities, a la "law" enforcement in the magic kingdom. Somebody levelheaded and less emotionally involved in current inter-tutelary accusations and negotiations (Benny) could point out that, while a hostile Huehue could make Shirley's job of explaining Charlie's "theft" much harder, a friendly and sympathetic Huehue could make her job a lot easier.

    At the end of the day it seems to me like Shirley just needs a deal where the "bad guys" (TV and GK) get punished and the "good guys" in danger (Charlie, CC, Vanna, TV's heir, Bill?) are safe. Someone just needs to sell her on a plan that appears to do that.

    Such a deal would be volatile, suspicious, and a hoot to watch. (Bold emphasis is mine.)

    Folks have wondered at the possibility of GK and CC teaming up properly. I doubt this could totally seal the deal... but maybe it could start one.

    Plus, I agree that Benjamin can use more of a role. His Stupidworld counterpart helped bridge a war; a diplomatic Benjamin ought to happen as often as possible.


    Parson made the same mistake. Benjamin Franchise's stupid world counterpart is the US one hundred dollar bill... not Benjamin Franklin. Note that his hair is in dreads and the gold chain with large, gold "100" pendant. First and foremost he is a modern gang culture reference (in keeping with the general gangster/mafia theme of Transilvito). So he may have no diplomatic skill to speak of.

    Then again, just because he is largely a reference to the US $100 bill's symbolic position in US gang culture doesn't necessarily mean he can't also be a reference to Ben Franklin the diplomat, poet, musical composer, writer, philosopher, scientist, inventor, and ladies man (have I mentioned Ben Franklin is my hero?). So you may be right. We shall see.

    _________________
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    Fear the would-be hero. For against the pangs of conscience, there is no more effective anesthesia than a righteous cause. And no one sees themselves as the villain, especially the villain.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 325
     Post Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 11:15 pm 
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    JadedDragoon wrote:
    Then again, just because he is largely a reference to the US $100 bill's symbolic position in US gang culture doesn't necessarily mean he can't also be a reference to Ben Franklin the diplomat, poet, musical composer, writer, philosopher, scientist, inventor, and ladies man (have I mentioned Ben Franklin is my hero?). So you may be right. We shall see.


    I think the most important thing that is going to come up is that ladies man thing. Bennie boy was notorious! Also Shirley has kind of a weak resistance to smooth talk.

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     Post subject: Parson Ben Walking.
     Post Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 12:00 am 
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    ideologist wrote:
    udat wrote:
    I noticed that Ben complains about his knees and losing his wind as he climbs the stairs. I thought only Parson got tired from moving around a city?


    Ben has probably walked more this turn than he has in the last hundred combined, his Signamancy says "old and sedate" - so he complains about walking

    The reason Parson was the only one that seemed to get tired moving around Gobwin Knob isn't because Parson is a stupid-worlder, it's because he is a fat-guy from Ohio who's closest thing to excersise was walking to the fridge. And in Erfworld Parson hasn't exactly gotten much excersise loathing about in his cell for a week.

    Remember, Janis got herself winded when ran all the way to the exercusion site. http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%203/254 .

    As for Benny, he complains about walking whenever he gets the chance. http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%203/199 .

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 325
     Post Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 12:21 am 
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    Bloogonis wrote:
    JadedDragoon wrote:
    Then again, just because he is largely a reference to the US $100 bill's symbolic position in US gang culture doesn't necessarily mean he can't also be a reference to Ben Franklin the diplomat, poet, musical composer, writer, philosopher, scientist, inventor, and ladies man (have I mentioned Ben Franklin is my hero?). So you may be right. We shall see.


    I think the most important thing that is going to come up is that ladies man thing. Bennie boy was notorious! Also Shirley has kind of a weak resistance to smooth talk.


    I can't recall the update, but I remember Shirley having some interest in Jed...

    But the current plot seems to require some sort of negotiations. Shirley (created by TGMTTA 8.x) isn't willing to have the TV standoff end in a "rocks fall, everyone dies" sort of massacre. The last round of tutelary negotiations we saw was mostly threats and unreasonable demands. The situation is begging for some sort of reasonable* negotiator to step in and resolve things in a way acceptable to everyone. 9 hours and one nap later I can see Charlie filling that role, or perhaps Parson. I'd still prefer (and put my money on) Benjamin. TV needs him to resolve the standoff in a way that neither of the other sides do. And we haven't seen much of Benjy's character, given his importance to TV and his (possible) impending depopping.

    TV units do have a history of showing surprising depth despite their superficially gangster signamancy, at any rate.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 325
     Post Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 12:36 am 
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    greycat wrote:
    Quote:
    "There are not enough beans in the world!"

    My eyes caught this sentence, a bit out of sequence, and my first thought was that it was a statement about macroeconomics. About how Erfworld's economy was not sustainable in its current form, and needed a fix.

    But then I realized Huehue meant something else entirely. Oh well.

    There used to be a lot more beans in the world, till Charlie croaked them all when Parson entered Charlescomm while violating its dress code.

    Older variation of what I just said:
    Spoiler: show
    Take 2: The reason there aren't enough beans in the world is Charlie's (and Jack's) fault. He croaked them all trying to go for Parson.

    Take 1: That's because Charlie croaked them all

    Brother Mirtillo wrote:
    Interesting debate about "money" being an ugly word. Just a few minutes ago, I opened the recent thread asking what money is. I'm not sure yet whether this update helps that thread or not. The thread looks for economic balance. This update seems more about the form of the world's money (or, for nomenclature's sake, the world's bartered items.) Huehue seems to think that the notion of money isn't worth a bean.

    And he might be right.
    ....

    I think we're giving way too much weight to the words of a being who came into this world this very turn, versus that of a seasoned old unit who's entire discipline revolves around money.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 325
     Post Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 3:02 am 
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    Apologies for the late reply thanks to everyone for looking at cacao,
    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    Forgot that they used beans as a currency. Been a long while since I've read Horrible Histories.

    I can relate, it has been a while since I read books like Broken Spears (which accounts for the entire war from the Aztec's perspective).

    I am waiting for a reference to the obsidian blades that they used (that were extremely brittle but could carve a stag's head in half), or the abilities of Transylivito to outmanuever Charile despite the overwhelming weapon tech gap, or Charlie's statues becoming crushed under the weight of the gold on his escape from huehue's kingdom (though I think killing the gem stealers might technically count as that), also if we might get a La Malinche soon (my hope is on the doll or Vanna). I was wondering if the betrayal may also be referencing the Tlaxcala who allied themselves with the Spaniards as soon as they saw the chance.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 325
     Post Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 6:28 am 
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    JadedDragoon wrote:
    Parson made the same mistake. Benjamin Franchise's stupid world counterpart is the US one hundred dollar bill... not Benjamin Franklin. Note that his hair is in dreads and the gold chain with large, gold "100" pendant. First and foremost he is a modern gang culture reference (in keeping with the general gangster/mafia theme of Transilvito). So he may have no diplomatic skill to speak of.

    Then again, just because he is largely a reference to the US $100 bill's symbolic position in US gang culture doesn't necessarily mean he can't also be a reference to Ben Franklin the diplomat, poet, musical composer, writer, philosopher, scientist, inventor, and ladies man (have I mentioned Ben Franklin is my hero?). So you may be right. We shall see.

    No diplomatic skill, you say? Money talks, my boy.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 325
     Post Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 9:33 am 
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    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    JadedDragoon wrote:
    Parson made the same mistake. Benjamin Franchise's stupid world counterpart is the US one hundred dollar bill... not Benjamin Franklin. Note that his hair is in dreads and the gold chain with large, gold "100" pendant. First and foremost he is a modern gang culture reference (in keeping with the general gangster/mafia theme of Transilvito). So he may have no diplomatic skill to speak of.

    Then again, just because he is largely a reference to the US $100 bill's symbolic position in US gang culture doesn't necessarily mean he can't also be a reference to Ben Franklin the diplomat, poet, musical composer, writer, philosopher, scientist, inventor, and ladies man (have I mentioned Ben Franklin is my hero?). So you may be right. We shall see.

    No diplomatic skill, you say? Money talks, my boy.


    I'm not sure that saying applies in Erfworld: Charlie doesn't walk.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 325
     Post Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 9:57 am 
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    Nimelennar wrote:
    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    JadedDragoon wrote:
    Parson made the same mistake. Benjamin Franchise's stupid world counterpart is the US one hundred dollar bill... not Benjamin Franklin. Note that his hair is in dreads and the gold chain with large, gold "100" pendant. First and foremost he is a modern gang culture reference (in keeping with the general gangster/mafia theme of Transilvito). So he may have no diplomatic skill to speak of.

    Then again, just because he is largely a reference to the US $100 bill's symbolic position in US gang culture doesn't necessarily mean he can't also be a reference to Ben Franklin the diplomat, poet, musical composer, writer, philosopher, scientist, inventor, and ladies man (have I mentioned Ben Franklin is my hero?). So you may be right. We shall see.

    No diplomatic skill, you say? Money talks, my boy.


    I'm not sure that saying applies in Erfworld: Charlie doesn't walk.

    Charlie's not the head of any currency, and Benny has been doing a lot of walking this update.

    edit: Plus Charlie is a carnie. And who'd ever heard of a rich carnie? Charlie's debt is crippling him, for being healthy is synonymous with being wealthy and wise. When is the last time we've seen Charlie go to bed early? Then again, he might just be an early riser.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 325
     Post Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 11:17 am 
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    Hm.

    That dance the Makaleka is doing looks a lot like Issac's invisible dance when he cut Tondy's (and the other archons') string...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 325
     Post Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 4:13 pm 
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    HalfTangible wrote:
    Hm.

    That dance the Makaleka is doing looks a lot like Issac's invisible dance when he cut Tondy's (and the other archons') string...


    Now I kinda want to see the Makaleka become a Thinkamancer, as Maggie becomes a Date-a-mancer. Makaleka already is mostly a real person now, so why not become a caster like Maggie, her 'mother'?

    Also, what pronoun should we use for the Makaleka now that Bill's string's been stolen, and when does she/it become a 'she' versus an 'it'? I personally vote 'she', since now she seems to have a sense of identity, which dolls don't really posess. The Isaac doll, after all, refers to itself as a 'he', as does Wanda, and it's far less advanced than Makaleka is by now.

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