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 Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 310
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:46 am 
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kaylasdad99 wrote:
Spoiler: show
JadedDragoon wrote:
GreySage wrote:

I think Wanda and Lilith are both having pretty good days. Both were staring at a death sentence only to be saved at the last moment, and both are looking at decent odds for surviving the turn (and in Wanda's case, going on a mass decryption spree and taking over significant parts of the world).


Hmm... Lilith still has a reasonable expectation of dying. And they already started the executions only to be stopped. I mean... yeah... she's still alive, miraculously. But she's spent this entire turn tied to a stake staring down her executioners and waiting to croak. Even living through that... it's not an experience I would want to have.

As for Wanda... I dunno... maybe. She's hard to read. But I can't help but feel like she's about to get her teeth kicked in by Buck and Co. And the revelation that she's fated to turn to Faq, whether Wanda knows it or not, is bad news indeed.

I-I-I-I-I dunno. I can’t help but feel that Marie was either fibbing to Jillian about what she plans to tell Wanda, or telling Jillian truthfully that she plans to fib to Wanda about what she has foretold as “Fated.”


I would very much like to believe that... which is why I choose not to till there is significant evidence to back it up.

kaylasdad99 wrote:
Still, fib or not, if she does tell Wanda that, there’s a strong likelihood that Wanda will believe her.

I hope this “Caesar and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day” arc wraps up by, say, Memorial Day, so we can see how the Battle Belowdecks shapes up.


Agreed on both counts.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 310
     Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:20 am 
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    JadedDragoon wrote:
    kaylasdad99 wrote:
    I hope this “Caesar and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day” arc wraps up by, say, Memorial Day, so we can see how the Battle Belowdecks shapes up.

    Agreed on both counts.

    I speculate that the TV arc can wrap up very quickly, depending on how many times Rob wants to do cutaways to other scenes. Because, "Rubicon." And a very safe assumption that HueHue can shout loud enough to be heard by every CC doll in the city... :twisted:

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 310
     Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:11 am 
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    neko wrote:
    JadedDragoon wrote:
    kaylasdad99 wrote:
    I hope this “Caesar and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day” arc wraps up by, say, Memorial Day, so we can see how the Battle Belowdecks shapes up.

    Agreed on both counts.

    I speculate that the TV arc can wrap up very quickly, depending on how many times Rob wants to do cutaways to other scenes. Because, "Rubicon." And a very safe assumption that HueHue can shout loud enough to be heard by every CC doll in the city... :twisted:


    How would that help TV? Even if the command is still a part of their function, and it may not be, the general assumption is that "Rubicon" put the dolls under the direct command of the ruler. Charlie is their ruler.

    My personal theory is that "Rubicon" caused the dolls to immediately subdue any non-alligned foreign entities in the immediate area, but even if that's true, I don't see how it would help TV.

    :?: :?: :?:

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 310
     Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:06 pm 
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    Merilynne wrote:
    neko wrote:
    I speculate that the TV arc can wrap up very quickly, depending on how many times Rob wants to do cutaways to other scenes. Because, "Rubicon." And a very safe assumption that HueHue can shout loud enough to be heard by every CC doll in the city... :twisted:


    How would that help TV? Even if the command is still a part of their function, and it may not be, the general assumption is that "Rubicon" put the dolls under the direct command of the ruler. Charlie is their ruler.|

    My personal theory is that "Rubicon" caused the dolls to immediately subdue any non-alligned foreign entities in the immediate area, but even if that's true, I don't see how it would help TV.

    :?: :?: :?:


    Turns out we've been straight up shown what Rubicon does. Vanna used it when she caught Parson in the hallway. The text is clear (9th paragraph... right where the picture starts).

    Rubicon:
    1. Alerted Don King to the problem
    2. Don King then placed the palace on lockdown... which woke up the rest of the units there.
    3. Magionette responded to Don's order... meaning he gave an order to subdue the prisoners... meaning subduing Parson and Jack wasn't automatic.

    Rubicon alerts their ruler to a problem. It may even read intent behind the utterance of the word and pass that along. It might do a bit more even and have the dolls defend whoever uttered it. What it doesn't do is make the dolls attack or subdue or anything else.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 310
     Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:06 pm 
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    I’m back with my tower theories and just thought about it CAPITALS Wow I just realized that capitals are the only place that towers exist because Stanley has Spacerock as his tower faq has either faq or Gobwin Knob/Stanley I’m coming for you you’d think that maybe another side that is not at all involved in this big Charlie V Parson dealio I also wonder about the source of strings and how the thinkamancy that caused Jed incredible amounts of connection to the source then the arkendish which connects Charlie to the source because at one point Charlie said that he had adjusted or gotten used to casting other disciplines through the arkendish but never retained his ability to cast them without it what if Charlie has infinite juice in the arkendish and can just cast cast cast FROM THE SOURCE where the towers get juice and how Jed probably cast the exact same spell Wanda did to bring parson back but with “unpaid juice” and those are only theories

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 310
     Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:16 pm 
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    JadedDragoon wrote:
    Merilynne wrote:
    neko wrote:
    I speculate that the TV arc can wrap up very quickly, depending on how many times Rob wants to do cutaways to other scenes. Because, "Rubicon." And a very safe assumption that HueHue can shout loud enough to be heard by every CC doll in the city... :twisted:


    How would that help TV? Even if the command is still a part of their function, and it may not be, the general assumption is that "Rubicon" put the dolls under the direct command of the ruler. Charlie is their ruler.|

    My personal theory is that "Rubicon" caused the dolls to immediately subdue any non-alligned foreign entities in the immediate area, but even if that's true, I don't see how it would help TV.

    :?: :?: :?:


    Turns out we've been straight up shown what Rubicon does. Vanna used it when she caught Parson in the hallway. The text is clear (9th paragraph... right where the picture starts).

    Rubicon:
    1. Alerted Don King to the problem
    2. Don King then placed the palace on lockdown... which woke up the rest of the units there.
    3. Magionette responded to Don's order... meaning he gave an order to subdue the prisoners... meaning subduing Parson and Jack wasn't automatic.

    Rubicon alerts their ruler to a problem. It may even read intent behind the utterance of the word and pass that along. It might do a bit more even and have the dolls defend whoever uttered it. What it doesn't do is make the dolls attack or subdue or anything else.


    Absolutely. We can trust that Bunny is correct. But...

    Attachment:
    Rubicon.png
    Rubicon.png [ 243.19 KiB | Viewed 361 times ]


    The moll is moving with intent toward Parson and Jack, just as Vanna utters, "Rubicon." There is no way that Don is awake, aware of the situation, and giving commands in the very instant that Vanna issues the command, yet the moll is immediately moving. There has to be something more to programmed into "Rubicon."

    Even if that "something more" is to defend the unit who issued the command, why would the moll target Parson and Jack? They're not approaching Vanna, or attacking her in any way, so no defense is needed. <shrug>

    What subroutine could logically be a part of the command that creates an immediate action by the molls to target potential assailants, but not harm or injure them?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 310
     Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:42 pm 
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    Merilynne wrote:
    The moll is moving with intent toward Parson and Jack, just as Vanna utters, "Rubicon." There is no way that Don is awake, aware of the situation, and giving commands in the very instant that Vanna issues the command, yet the moll is immediately moving. There has to be something more to programmed into "Rubicon."

    Interesting. Also, she is pointing at the two units, and, I presume, also forming a mental order in which the object (target) is the two prisoner units. Whether that order is conveyed through the "Rubicon" app, and whether that target is accepted as valid by the app, are things we can only guess at. Does it matter that they were TV prisoners at the time? (It certainly could!)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 310
     Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:46 pm 
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    Merilynne wrote:
    Spoiler: show
    JadedDragoon wrote:
    Merilynne wrote:

    How would that help TV? Even if the command is still a part of their function, and it may not be, the general assumption is that "Rubicon" put the dolls under the direct command of the ruler. Charlie is their ruler.|

    My personal theory is that "Rubicon" caused the dolls to immediately subdue any non-alligned foreign entities in the immediate area, but even if that's true, I don't see how it would help TV.

    :?: :?: :?:


    Turns out we've been straight up shown what Rubicon does. Vanna used it when she caught Parson in the hallway. The text is clear (9th paragraph... right where the picture starts).

    Rubicon:
    1. Alerted Don King to the problem
    2. Don King then placed the palace on lockdown... which woke up the rest of the units there.
    3. Magionette responded to Don's order... meaning he gave an order to subdue the prisoners... meaning subduing Parson and Jack wasn't automatic.

    Rubicon alerts their ruler to a problem. It may even read intent behind the utterance of the word and pass that along. It might do a bit more even and have the dolls defend whoever uttered it. What it doesn't do is make the dolls attack or subdue or anything else.


    Absolutely. We can trust that Bunny is correct. But...

    Attachment:
    Rubicon.png


    The moll is moving with intent toward Parson and Jack, just as Vanna utters, "Rubicon." There is no way that Don is awake, aware of the situation, and giving commands in the very instant that Vanna issues the command, yet the moll is immediately moving. There has to be something more to programmed into "Rubicon."

    Even if that "something more" is to defend the unit who issued the command, why would the moll target Parson and Jack? They're not approaching Vanna, or attacking her in any way, so no defense is needed. <shrug>

    What subroutine could logically be a part of the command that creates an immediate action by the molls to target potential assailants, but not harm or injure them?


    Bah... didn't notice the moll's legs before. Thought she was standing in a protective formation in front of Vanna. But it looks like you are right. So I dunno.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 310
     Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:18 pm 
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    greycat wrote:
    Merilynne wrote:
    The moll is moving with intent toward Parson and Jack, just as Vanna utters, "Rubicon." There is no way that Don is awake, aware of the situation, and giving commands in the very instant that Vanna issues the command, yet the moll is immediately moving. There has to be something more to programmed into "Rubicon."

    Interesting. Also, she is pointing at the two units, and, I presume, also forming a mental order in which the object (target) is the two prisoner units. Whether that order is conveyed through the "Rubicon" app, and whether that target is accepted as valid by the app, are things we can only guess at. Does it matter that they were TV prisoners at the time? (It certainly could!)

    I thought about the "mental order" possibility and discarded it, but only because Vanna was not a TV unit at the time. It seems unwise to give a password like that to a non-TV unit if it gave them even temporary control of defensive forces. Of course Don might not have been thinking clearly when he shared the command with Vanna, either. :roll:

    The fact they were prisoners could certainly be a factor.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 310
     Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:25 pm 
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    Eh, I can imagine them being under orders to chase down any fat guys that are running away. It's an anti rape code after all. And Bill is big fat jerk who'd run away if he got in trouble.

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     Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:05 pm 
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    Heffenfeffer wrote:
    After all, Huehue said that seeing Bill had him almost shitting bricks.


    Have a schmucker for the horrible pun

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 310
     Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:36 pm 
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    Merilynne wrote:
    The moll is moving with intent toward Parson and Jack, just as Vanna utters, "Rubicon." There is no way that Don is awake, aware of the situation, and giving commands in the very instant that Vanna issues the command, yet the moll is immediately moving. There has to be something more to programmed into "Rubicon."

    Even if that "something more" is to defend the unit who issued the command, why would the moll target Parson and Jack? They're not approaching Vanna, or attacking her in any way, so no defense is needed. <shrug>


    Alternative explanation:

    TV units that see Parson/Jack would recognize them as escaped prisoners and would automatically chase to re-capture.

    Maggie-doll had been clearing TV units out of the path of Parson/Jack to avoid this auto-engagement, which is how Vanna ends up with a moll in her room; the second time, Vanna opens the door sooner, leading the moll to see the escaped prisoners in the hallway. The moll's movement towards them is standard "chase prisoners" behavior, not due to Vanna yelling Rubicon.

    Without Vanna noticing and yelling Rubicon, perhaps only that single moll would have chased Parson/Jack. But Rubicon escalated the security level, alerting Don and more TV units.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 310
     Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:03 pm 
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    SirHamster wrote:
    Merilynne wrote:
    The moll is moving with intent toward Parson and Jack, just as Vanna utters, "Rubicon." There is no way that Don is awake, aware of the situation, and giving commands in the very instant that Vanna issues the command, yet the moll is immediately moving. There has to be something more to programmed into "Rubicon."

    Even if that "something more" is to defend the unit who issued the command, why would the moll target Parson and Jack? They're not approaching Vanna, or attacking her in any way, so no defense is needed. <shrug>


    Alternative explanation:

    TV units that see Parson/Jack would recognize them as escaped prisoners and would automatically chase to re-capture.

    Maggie-doll had been clearing TV units out of the path of Parson/Jack to avoid this auto-engagement, which is how Vanna ends up with a moll in her room; the second time, Vanna opens the door sooner, leading the moll to see the escaped prisoners in the hallway. The moll's movement towards them is standard "chase prisoners" behavior, not due to Vanna yelling Rubicon.

    Without Vanna noticing and yelling Rubicon, perhaps only that single moll would have chased Parson/Jack. But Rubicon escalated the security level, alerting Don and more TV units.


    That's a logical explanation. It fits the general purpose of the dolls and molls, the illustration and what we know about the command.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 310
     Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:22 pm 
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    ObliqueFault wrote:
    Aquillion wrote:
    (Well, Vanna also looks pretty similar, but it's hard to see how that would happen.)


    I dunno, it doesn't seem that far-fetched to me. Remember, Vanna's Royalist to the core. Her top priority is popping that heir, and she needs Caesar alive for that (for now, at least). If the only way to save the side is to croak Bill, I could see her doing it.

    Actually, Caesar might as well add "beating Vanna unconscious" to his list of mistakes. She was the only person who could have talked Bill down. Not to mention it made Shirley hate him, which is turning out to be surprisingly relevant.


    Not to mention, it was Caesar beating Vanna that also scared Bill. Ceasar was being very direct and not listning to other points of view at the time. If it was Don King still in charge Bill would never have been so scared, and thus would not have defected.

    Caesar lost TV due to his own personality flaws.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 310
     Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:36 pm 
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    Sir Dr D wrote:
    ObliqueFault wrote:
    Aquillion wrote:
    (Well, Vanna also looks pretty similar, but it's hard to see how that would happen.)


    I dunno, it doesn't seem that far-fetched to me. Remember, Vanna's Royalist to the core. Her top priority is popping that heir, and she needs Caesar alive for that (for now, at least). If the only way to save the side is to croak Bill, I could see her doing it.

    Actually, Caesar might as well add "beating Vanna unconscious" to his list of mistakes. She was the only person who could have talked Bill down. Not to mention it made Shirley hate him, which is turning out to be surprisingly relevant.


    Not to mention, it was Caesar beating Vanna that also scared Bill. Ceasar was being very direct and not listning to other points of view at the time. If it was Don King still in charge Bill would never have been so scared, and thus would not have defected.

    Caesar lost TV due to his own personality flaws.


    Bill didn't turn because he was afraid. Bill turned because Charlie offered "Real Dolls." Granted, the situation wouldn't have been the same at all under Don King, but Bill would have reacted the same to that particular bait. It's in his nature.

    But yes, Caesar beating Vanna got Shirley upset, so she got Charlie involved. If Caesar had just disbanded her, Charlie probably would have marked it up to an acceptable loss and this whole mess wouldn't have happened.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 310
     Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:34 pm 
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    Wow, theories abound!

    Caesar is doing exactly what is best for his side: looking sheepish and coordinating the attack with the Two Princess. Er, Duchessess, maybe.

    There is an album... King for a Day, Fool For a Lifetime. Maybe it will get references on Queen-For-a-Day's day? No? Ok...

    E.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 310
     Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:47 pm 
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    Merilynne wrote:
    Sir Dr D wrote:
    ObliqueFault wrote:
    I dunno, it doesn't seem that far-fetched to me. Remember, Vanna's Royalist to the core. Her top priority is popping that heir, and she needs Caesar alive for that (for now, at least). If the only way to save the side is to croak Bill, I could see her doing it.

    Actually, Caesar might as well add "beating Vanna unconscious" to his list of mistakes. She was the only person who could have talked Bill down. Not to mention it made Shirley hate him, which is turning out to be surprisingly relevant.


    Not to mention, it was Caesar beating Vanna that also scared Bill. Ceasar was being very direct and not listning to other points of view at the time. If it was Don King still in charge Bill would never have been so scared, and thus would not have defected.

    Caesar lost TV due to his own personality flaws.


    Bill didn't turn because he was afraid. Bill turned because Charlie offered "Real Dolls." Granted, the situation wouldn't have been the same at all under Don King, but Bill would have reacted the same to that particular bait. It's in his nature.

    But yes, Caesar beating Vanna got Shirley upset, so she got Charlie involved. If Caesar had just disbanded her, Charlie probably would have marked it up to an acceptable loss and this whole mess wouldn't have happened.

    Um yeah, he did. Bill didn't turn because Charlie offered "real dolls", that was merely the line Charlie used which caused him to accept the phoney's phone call. Bill only turned to Charlescomm after, and specifically because, the tower attempted to get him disbanded.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 310
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:14 am 
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    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    Um yeah, he did. Bill didn't turn because Charlie offered "real dolls", that was merely the line Charlie used which caused him to accept the phoney's phone call. Bill only turned to Charlescomm after, and specifically because, the tower attempted to get him disbanded.

    Wait, didn't Huehue only threaten to disband him after Bill betrayed TV? Hard to see how Bill hadn't turned already at that point.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 310
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:41 am 
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    alowe wrote:
    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    Um yeah, he did. Bill didn't turn because Charlie offered "real dolls", that was merely the line Charlie used which caused him to accept the phoney's phone call. Bill only turned to Charlescomm after, and specifically because, the tower attempted to get him disbanded.

    Wait, didn't Huehue only threaten to disband him after Bill betrayed TV? Hard to see how Bill hadn't turned already at that point.

    http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%203/303 . Panel 3, Bill is still in Transilvitan clothes. Panels 5 through the top of 6 you can see the Tower pestering Caesar to disband Bill, then Bill turns.

    At no point did Bill do any "betrayal" of Transilvito between the point where the Tower was awakened, and him turning to Charlescomm.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 310
     Post Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:54 am 
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    Bill committed two treasonous acts, trapping the pendant and then turning to Charlescomm. Charlie used his Real Doll spiel to convince Bill to trap the pendant, and he did so as soon as he entered the room. But there was a bit of a time gap before he turned. Why that was, we can only speculate, but the most likely reason would be either:

    a) Charlie told him to wait, because that was part of The Plan. But Bill sprung the trap early when he realized he was in danger of being disbanded.

    b) He was getting cold feet, which thawed the instant Huehue said the d word.

    Either way, saving his own skin was his motivation for turning when he did.

    Edit:

    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    At no point did Bill do any "betrayal" of Transilvito between the point where the Tower was awakened, and him turning to Charlescomm.


    The tower apparently knew that Bill had cast a trap on the pendant. Either he could remember it happening from before he was awakened, or he understood enough about Dollamancy to recognize the trap when he saw it. However he did it, he could tell Bill had committed treason.

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