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 Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 253
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:27 am 
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Knavigator wrote:
greyknight wrote:
Book 3/221 wrote:
Prisoners lacked the juice to pinkie swear

Interesting remark given that Parson apparently was able to pinkie swear. Jillian offered to pinkie swear back in Book 0/28 too, so it's not just a Parson-weirdness thing.

Jillian isn't a prisoner in that page. When did Parson make one while a prisoner? He wasn't a prisoner to the GM's and Caesar never asked him for one in my memory.

Sorry, I was unclear: it's not the word "prisoner" that's interesting, it's the word "juice".
If pinkie-swears require juice... and regular warlords like Jillian can pinkie swear... :?:

kaylasdad99 wrote:
I just noticed something about the camo pattern in Buck's hat. It shifts (compare panels 1 and 3, for starters), in much the same way that the colors flow in a Portal.

Buck is secretly a fallen Titan confirmed.

BTW I got talking to Anomynous 167, he says you are his new son and heir. All hail kaylasdad266!

RumpusImperator wrote:
Actually, "CACK" is a pretty good onomatopoeia for the sound an M-16 makes when fired, so it might just be that.

Erfworld bullets are very small Dirtamancy traps, maybe they are literally made from cack. (mumble mumble pinch of bat guano)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 253
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:33 am 
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    greyknight wrote:
    Sorry, I was unclear: it's not the word "prisoner" that's interesting, it's the word "juice".
    If pinkie-swears require juice... and regular warlords like Jillian can pinkie swear... :?:


    To use another comics explanation: it's not actually that casters have a little purse with Juice in in, but that Raw Magic is all over, in the air, ground, blabla elemental matter,... and Casters are just focal lenses with a limited passthrough capacity before they're "depleted". That would allow the skilled to retain more focus, use less material to do menial tasks, but also for non-casters to access this, if you will, life-Force, in mundane ways.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 253
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:01 am 
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    Any bets on which situation is going to be resolved (well. Made more suspenseful) today?

    We've got:

    Bill and Vanna plotting against Transylvito
    Marie and Georgia in ICFYC - Fixing Jillian? They can't be planning to kill her or they'd lose the portal.
    Janice potentially (hopefully) saving Lillith... and I guess one or two others
    Wanda, Ivan and Claude escaping the MK and/or Kippiing the portals
    Parson deciding on an actual plan (could resolve the B/V vs T arc)
    Charlie doing.... something

    I feel like each of those needs at least one more full page before the climax.

    Other things expected to to happen:
    Roger and Jojo invading transilvito (could be made redundant with the Janice page)
    AbominIsaac being revealed / clarified

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 253
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:01 am 
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    DeanXeL wrote:
    greyknight wrote:
    Sorry, I was unclear: it's not the word "prisoner" that's interesting, it's the word "juice".
    If pinkie-swears require juice... and regular warlords like Jillian can pinkie swear... :?:


    To use another comics explanation: it's not actually that casters have a little purse with Juice in in, but that Raw Magic is all over, in the air, ground, blabla elemental matter,... and Casters are just focal lenses with a limited passthrough capacity before they're "depleted". That would allow the skilled to retain more focus, use less material to do menial tasks, but also for non-casters to access this, if you will, life-Force, in mundane ways.

    Some casters can even influence the midichlorians to create life.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 253
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:39 am 
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    greyknight wrote:
    Sorry, I was unclear: it's not the word "prisoner" that's interesting, it's the word "juice".
    If pinkie-swears require juice... and regular warlords like Jillian can pinkie swear... :?:


    Based on some things that Bunny and Maggie have said, issuing orders require minuscule amounts of Juice, so any Commander unit must have non-zero juice capacity.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 253
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:54 am 
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    Chiu ChunLing wrote:
    Shashakiro wrote:
    The argument of "I think the rules/laws of your society are unfair, so I'll go ahead break them at my convenience" is unpersuasive on its face.
    Since that is the founding argument of every civilized society in existence at this point, how is it that you don't live in a state of nature?


    Which society was founded on that argument? I'm aware of no society that was founded on the basis of an asserted right to break rules/laws for the purpose of convenience alone, and I seriously doubt you can identify one.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 253
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:14 am 
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    greyknight wrote:
    Slightly off-topic, but you just reminded me:
    Book 3/221 wrote:
    Prisoners lacked the juice to pinkie swear

    Interesting remark given that Parson apparently was able to pinkie swear. Jillian offered to pinkie swear back in Book 0/28 too, so it's not just a Parson-weirdness thing.


    Not sure what pinkie swears are you referring with Parson and Jillian, but your quote says "Prisoners lacked the juice to pinkie swear" and it so happens that Parson and Jillian are warlords and should not have juice to begin with. So there must be something more to that than just "lacking the juice due to being a prisoner".


    Edit: Ninja'd


    Last edited by Not Me on Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 253
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:15 am 
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    JelloTool wrote:
    Any bets on which situation is going to be resolved (well. Made more suspenseful) today?

    We've got:

    Bill and Vanna plotting against Transylvito
    Marie and Georgia in ICFYC - Fixing Jillian? They can't be planning to kill her or they'd lose the portal.
    Janice potentially (hopefully) saving Lillith... and I guess one or two others
    Wanda, Ivan and Claude escaping the MK and/or Kippiing the portals
    Parson deciding on an actual plan (could resolve the B/V vs T arc)
    Charlie doing.... something

    I feel like each of those needs at least one more full page before the climax.

    Other things expected to to happen:
    Roger and Jojo invading transilvito (could be made redundant with the Janice page)
    AbominIsaac being revealed / clarified



    I expect the next page will be Stanley.

    Or else it'll be something completely different. Like fer instance, Trammenis plotting with King Dickie to take back Jetstone.

    I'm really hoping the next page will involve ICFYS, or Wanda, or Parson. The tension is too booping high in all three places.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 253
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:27 am 
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    greyknight wrote:
    DeanXeL wrote:
    greyknight wrote:
    Sorry, I was unclear: it's not the word "prisoner" that's interesting, it's the word "juice".
    If pinkie-swears require juice... and regular warlords like Jillian can pinkie swear... :?:


    To use another comics explanation: it's not actually that casters have a little purse with Juice in in, but that Raw Magic is all over, in the air, ground, blabla elemental matter,... and Casters are just focal lenses with a limited passthrough capacity before they're "depleted". That would allow the skilled to retain more focus, use less material to do menial tasks, but also for non-casters to access this, if you will, life-Force, in mundane ways.

    Some casters can even influence the midichlorians to create life.

    Tell me, have you ever heard the satire of ... Dark Plagarious the Smart?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 253
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:15 pm 
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    Not Me wrote:
    greyknight wrote:
    Slightly off-topic, but you just reminded me:
    Book 3/221 wrote:
    Prisoners lacked the juice to pinkie swear

    Interesting remark given that Parson apparently was able to pinkie swear. Jillian offered to pinkie swear back in Book 0/28 too, so it's not just a Parson-weirdness thing.


    Not sure what pinkie swears are you referring with Parson and Jillian, but your quote says "Prisoners lacked the juice to pinkie swear" and it so happens that Parson and Jillian are warlords and should not have juice to begin with. So there must be something more to that than just "lacking the juice due to being a prisoner".

    Parson pinkie-swore to protect the GM's secrets, and you can check the page linked above for Jillian's (proposed) pinkie swear to Lord Christian Sidehug.

    I'm unsure how to parse the rest of your comment; it sounds like you're suggesting pinkie swears don't require juice; but in that case, why did the narrator even bring it up? May as well say that prisoners lack the Move to pinkie-swear, since presumably that has nothing to do with it either.

    The only sensible conclusion I can come to is Knavigator's conclusion that Warlords must have some non-zero amount of juice. Which is surprising to me, maybe it's old news to everybody else.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 253
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:21 pm 
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    Shashakiro wrote:
    Chiu ChunLing wrote:
    Shashakiro wrote:
    The argument of "I think the rules/laws of your society are unfair, so I'll go ahead break them at my convenience" is unpersuasive on its face.
    Since that is the founding argument of every civilized society in existence at this point, how is it that you don't live in a state of nature?


    Which society was founded on that argument? I'm aware of no society that was founded on the basis of an asserted right to break rules/laws for the purpose of convenience alone, and I seriously doubt you can identify one.
    See, now you're leaving out the "unfair" bit.

    Which was an important part of the equation.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 253
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:28 pm 
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    DeanXeL wrote:
    Tell me, have you ever heard the satire of ... Dark Plagarious the Smart?

    Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagarious The Smart? I thought not. It’s not a story the Great Minds would tell you. It’s a Baddie legend. Darth Plagarious was a Dark Lord of the Baddies, so powerful and so smart he could use the grandiocosmic strings to influence the midichlorians to create life... He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from croaking. The dark side of Thinkamancy is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful... the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice croaked him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from croaking, but not himself.


    Last edited by greyknight on Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 253
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:30 pm 
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    greyknight wrote:
    Parson pinkie-swore to protect the GM's secrets, and you can check the page linked above for Jillian's (proposed) pinkie swear to Lord Christian Sidehug.

    I'm unsure how to parse the rest of your comment; it sounds like you're suggesting pinkie swears don't require juice; but in that case, why did the narrator even bring it up? May as well say that prisoners lack the Move to pinkie-swear, since presumably that has nothing to do with it either.

    The only sensible conclusion I can come to is Knavigator's conclusion that Warlords must have some non-zero amount of juice. Which is surprising to me, maybe it's old news to everybody else.


    Pinkie swears could just be natural magic. We know orders are natural Thinkamancy and leadership is natural Datamancy; since it seems like any unit can be promoted to have leadership and command, it could be that all units have some amount of juice for natural magic, including pinkie swears, and casters are just the only units who can use juice for other magic. 100% speculation here, though.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 253
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:50 pm 
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    Luitz wrote:
    Metallicat wrote:
    A lot of the debate about the justice system of the MK runs into the problem that there are -- at least -- two systems. First, the Quorum of the Qualified and their "fair" trial, which tries to resolve things by evidence. The impression given is that these usually work out to the satisfaction of the majority of the MK, and have input from all the disciplines into any MK-wide situation.



    I was under the impression that the Trial lacked any Croakamancers? And that the Qualified were pretty much only selected from some disciplines?


    All classes were represented in the original trial Quorum. I can't find anything which spells out exactly who all were there, so it is possible that a Shockamancer rather than a Croakamancer represented the Naughtymancers. Also, many in the MK have multiple disciplines, especially the leading qualified. About 15 or so, I think, not sure of the exact jury size and some may have been prosecution and defense or other roles.

    23 total disciplines would mean a pretty big jury if all had to be individually represented. I can see that for something like a big MK conference discussion thing, but taking those like Janis and RVC who have multiple disciplines lets them cut the numbers needed down.

    The late night Those Who Matter group, on the other hand, was not balanced in the same way. RVC and Buck Nugget were present for both.

    Luitz wrote:
    Carl wrote:
    Heh, got that and CK 2, but allways found them a bit too dense unless i was really in the mood. Thats what i allways liked about stellaris, easier to get into if yuo follow me.


    I'm actively not engaging in any of the Paradox Titles. I am far too weak to not spend all my time on them once I start, and I need to get boop done.


    Plus the money ;)

    The games are clear winners in the value for time spent playing category, but are hard to play with less than obsessive attention. Worse I think that Civilization's "just one more turn," as something important always seems to be about to happen, if it isn't already.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 253
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:10 pm 
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    zbeeblebrox wrote:
    Aww snap, we've already seen this chapter what happens when Wanda sees one of her units in danger outside of combat. Buck is screwed. He better hope wassername casts some hippiemancy on him, for his own sake.

    I wonder if Wanda's heard of the tree of woe...

    Axiom wrote:
    EpicCrab wrote:
    Axiom wrote:
    Janis is going to take a bullet for Lilith. We may still get decrypted Janis.

    Why would she do that? She's not particularly pro-Wanda and she doesn't know Lilith at all.

    Parson's respect for the little people has rubbed off on her and she's a firm believer in peace/love/happiness/life.

    You dishonour her, she was caring about the little people while that despicable war criminal Hamster Gotti was just a gleam in his mother's eye. Have you forgotten her garden? Never mind that these people are her followers. A mother will protect her young.

    Blagan Hyrede wrote:
    In defense of Buck Nugget, they're facing a reality that's about 10x worse than a Zombie Apocalypse from a purely logistical and strategic standpoint. Wanda literally raises the dead, and any slight victory she achieves can snowball into a complete assimilation of the Magic Kingdom. The execution orders have already been given, as "marsupial" as the court system was. If he didn't have any problems with that ruling before, he shouldn't have any problems with pushing up the execution by a couple minutes in the middle of what's likely to soon become a battlefield. Based on what they knew, and from a perception of pure strategy, as soon as the Dirtamansion got broken into by an unknown unit, they should have Croaked Wanda.

    If they hadn't already been sentenced to death, people might have a point in condemning his current actions. He's not even changing the method of their execution, it's still via bullet.

    What you could argue is that it might be a bad strategic move, in that he might otherwise be able to use the prisoners as hostages to try and negotiate some kind of truce and peaceful exodus of Wanda and her minions from the Magic Kingdom. But he has no reason to suspect that would work, nor that a Croakamancer who can literally just raise more minions from the dead would be particularly concerned with losing a small handful of them. With the exception of perhaps the Archon, who may have valuable intelligence. Maybe if he knew that Wanda was currently trapped under bedrock, and didn't have the Pliers, he would be a bit more chill, but for all he's aware, she could pop back up at any moment and begin Decrypting. The fewer assets she has already available, the better their odds of beating her. Honestly, considering that the MK is facing what could reasonably be argued for them as an extinction level scenario, I'm surprised they even bothered with a show trial for Wanda.

    And Nugget isn't a Predictamancer, so, he's probably not aware enough of Fate to understand how he's tempting it.

    Brutal as it may be, it's a perfect example of why Parson made so much emphasis to Stanley about 'not being the scariest person in the room' Which is exactly what Wanda is. As terrifyingly powerful and resourceful as Charlie is, any attempt he makes to conquer the MK is going to cost him resources. For Wanda, she would acquire new ones.

    I mean, people are literally in the comment threads for the comic, talking about how Wanda could, and should, just conquer the Magic Kingdom and Decrypt them all, but are surprised and disgusted when the Casters in the MK act as if that's a distinct possibility for which there should be concern.

    The residents of the MK are going to act chiefly on self-preservation. Just because we as an audience know who is on the side of the "Good Guys" doesn't mean the Free Casters either know, nor care.

    You overlook one simple fact. Wanda has taken no hostile action towards the magick kingdom until this moment. She even viewed fighting in the Magick Kingdom as sacrilege. But now, after they've provoked her thus? I'm put in mind of the Harfleur speech from Henry V. Are they not in the process of defying her to her worst?

    fillmore wrote:
    Does Wanda even have any juice to be able to cast after being repatriated? Jack and Maggie didn't have any right afterward, right?

    Heh. Typed it out and realized Jack and Maggie are the names of Peter Pan's kids on Hook.

    Yes, they used theirs up in a link prior to capture however, there are those who argue she'll have whatever juice she had left upon the moment of her capture. Of course, she may not have had anything left. She didn't shoot at the archons during the battle of portal park after all.

    Not Me wrote:
    I was also thinking Wanda was going to pull out some kind of repatriation through her strings being attached to Lillith's, but then I remembered that to cut the "prisoner string", Wanda used the Arkenpliers (in Thinkspace).
    "Local" repatriations can be done by any unit, just by stacking with the prisoner. I'm not sure if Ansom's repatriation was "local" (stacking with Stanley after escaping from the Megalo's grasp) or "remote", but I'm leaning to "local".
    As I understand it, repatriation needs "string cutting". The only (other) "Remote" repatriation we've seen needed "string cutting" at a distance (Wanda and Maggie were physically in Spacerock while Lillith was in Charlescomm).
    A Master Class Thinkamancer needs to touch their target to cut their string and only a State 7 can cut threads at a distance (but from that update I'm guessing their power amounts for the MK only (or in-hex thread cutting) and not for the whole of Erfworld, since Roger claimed "the Great Minds could rule the Magic Kingdom" and not "the Great Minds could rule Erfworld"). So I would expect that Wanda alone won't be able to replicate the power of a State 7 without having the Arkenpliers with her.

    Wanda's already replicating something a State 7 cannot accomplish, by seeing through the eyes of the archons, without using juice and without pliers in hands. Does she need the pliers for anything? It could be that bonding with them was a permanent upgrade and now serve merely as her royal sceptre equivalent. She then threw Maggie out of mindspace without using the pliers. And it's not like she's going up against Charlie this time around.

    Count_to_10 wrote:
    You know, from the perspective of most in the magic kingdom, the Decrypted are kind of like an intelligent zombie apocalypse. I'd probably be dusting them as fast as possible, if I were in their place -- particularly if they believe that the Decrypted are all just clones of Wanda's mind wearing corpses and their habits like a disguise.

    That just means they're incredibly racist. Which really isn't a point in their favour.

    Luitz wrote:
    While in Stupidworld the eyes may be poorly designed to channel the amount of power required, we may find that in Erfworld, eye lasers are a thing.

    I'm pretty sure we've already had confirmation of eye beam spells for the lookamancers.

    *Checks* Yup.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 253
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:18 pm 
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    Whispri wrote:
    Luitz wrote:
    While in Stupidworld the eyes may be poorly designed to channel the amount of power required, we may find that in Erfworld, eye lasers are a thing.

    I'm pretty sure we've already had confirmation of eye beam spells for the lookamancers.

    *Checks* Yup.


    Yay! Go Wanda/Lillith! OmegaBeam him to ashes!

    Edit: Surprised it's Lookamancy and not Shockamancy the one with the eye lasers... but then again, X-Ray Lasers ARE a thing, and sort of naturally flow from X-Ray Vision... 8-) :geek:

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 253
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:41 pm 
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    greyknight wrote:
    Not Me wrote:
    Not sure what pinkie swears are you referring with Parson and Jillian, but your quote says "Prisoners lacked the juice to pinkie swear" and it so happens that Parson and Jillian are warlords and should not have juice to begin with. So there must be something more to that than just "lacking the juice due to being a prisoner".


    Parson pinkie-swore to protect the GM's secrets, and you can check the page linked above for Jillian's (proposed) pinkie swear to Lord Christian Sidehug.

    I'm unsure how to parse the rest of your comment; it sounds like you're suggesting pinkie swears don't require juice; but in that case, why did the narrator even bring it up? May as well say that prisoners lack the Move to pinkie-swear, since presumably that has nothing to do with it either.

    The only sensible conclusion I can come to is Knavigator's conclusion that Warlords must have some non-zero amount of juice. Which is surprising to me, maybe it's old news to everybody else.


    Yeah, I'm wondering the same thing. It sounded strange to me when it said that a prisoner couldn't pinkie-swear for lack of juice when non-caster/non-casting units can pinkie-swear all the same. And if it's natural magic, I'm wondering why does it require juice, since we've seen many natural magic things carried out by units with (presumably) no juice.

    So it's either that all units have some juice to perform these natural magic stuff (even though they might not be aware of having juice) or that the mention of not being able to perform a pinkie-swear due to lack of jucie might get retconjured in the future.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 253
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:40 pm 
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    Dewey the Signamancer wrote:
    Well actually if they had succeeded in croaking Wanda they would have just ended up facing something even worse later that would replace her. Probably a big part of why the Predictamancers aren't on board with this whole thing. And seriously when you have dozens of people who can see the future telling you that something is a bad idea you should probably start to reconsider if you want to go through with it. :wanda:

    Edit:
    Come to think of it I don't think the Predictamancers are even part of Those Who Matter. Which really says something about how ass backwards the Magic Kingdom is. The Stuffamancers get two seats at the table but the people who can see the fucking future don't even get to serve in an advisory role? Man no wonder this place is about to crash and burn.


    Predictamancy is completely useless most of the time.

    Most things "don't matter" so predictions about them can't be made. Things that do matter enough to be predicted will hapen so you can't avoid them, but you don't get a step by step of how to get there along with the prediction.

    You'd need to predict something neutral or beneficial to yourself but that requires you to take an easily determined action you would not normally take to enable the prediction to come to pass, in order for having gotten the prediction to be a net gain over not bothering.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 253
     Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:15 pm 
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    Turtlewing wrote:

    Predictamancy is completely useless most of the time.

    Most things "don't matter" so predictions about them can't be made. Things that do matter enough to be predicted will hapen so you can't avoid them, but you don't get a step by step of how to get there along with the prediction.

    You'd need to predict something neutral or beneficial to yourself but that requires you to take an easily determined action you would not normally take to enable the prediction to come to pass, in order for having gotten the prediction to be a net gain over not bothering.


    I don't think this is a fair evaluation of predictamancy. predictamancy can tell jillian 'your stack will be ambushed,' but if she changes what she was going to do to try to avoid the ambush that may just end up causing the ambush. it's 'useless' in terms of preventing the ambush but you can say 'well, at least make sure we're ready and they don't take us by surprise' and 'lets keep the stack near enough to closest city that we can get reinforcements if we need to.' or you could decide that maybe this isn't the best turn to escort your dirtamancer to an outlying city. and so forth.

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     Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:58 pm 
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    Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
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    Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:53 am
    Posts: 372
    Heffenfeffer wrote:
    Eh, getting old beats the alternative.

    Getting young?

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